does that article place the blame squarely on the owner? I think dogs are more like people in general than like their owners, specifically...they're about as predictable as your average 6YO
Dogs that attack people (1 Viewer)
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Yes ... and if I am to believe the other positions taken in this discussion -- if you really believe there is a parallel lesson here -- one could say: a) the homicides are generally "provoked" by the victim in some way and/or b) someone else was responsible for their inappropriate behavior....?
... its not the same debate.
Another story of a old lady attacked and mauled to death by Pitbull cross. Woman, 92, dies from mauling by neighbor’s dogs
I believe that is the thread I created. funny, did a search and it came up blank.
Sometimes I wonder how people like rusty make it in life being so fxxxing dumb and gullible. The sad thing is he can't see past the agenda of the person writing the crap, whether it be global warming, extreeeem weather, or dogs. There is always an agenda and some get it and others like rusty don't.
I should write an article about how dogs that sniff other dogs asses have a predisposition to attacking other dogs because their fear of other dogs are inherently gone. Rusty would be on this like stink on s*** because it proves in his little mind, the stereotypes he knows is validated. He can't see past the point it's just really me baiting him to think a certain way with vague associations.
Fxxx, some people are dumb.
I should write an article about how dogs that sniff other dogs asses have a predisposition to attacking other dogs because their fear of other dogs are inherently gone. Rusty would be on this like stink on s*** because it proves in his little mind, the stereotypes he knows is validated. He can't see past the point it's just really me baiting him to think a certain way with vague associations.
Fxxx, some people are dumb.
gregnash
Anal Retentive Analyst
Wow bringing back an old thread... @rustybucket maybe it is time to educate yourself some more that just listening to this media verbal diarrhea. Do you even see the compounding factor in there? There were 3 dogs that were unknown to the neighbor (92yr old woman) and obviously did not know her. So simply because they were pitbulls has everything to do with the woman's death/injuries according to your logic.
And let me guess, you are probably on board with Trump in that the border needs to be shut down because of the Mexican immigrants? If you were a US citizen you probably would be voting from him, or Bernie. Might as well go ahead and turn all your guns over to the govt as they kill people simply because they are guns and that is what guns do. Oh and throw spoons out the window because they make people fat, and we don't even want to start talking about SPORKS!!!
And let me guess, you are probably on board with Trump in that the border needs to be shut down because of the Mexican immigrants? If you were a US citizen you probably would be voting from him, or Bernie. Might as well go ahead and turn all your guns over to the govt as they kill people simply because they are guns and that is what guns do. Oh and throw spoons out the window because they make people fat, and we don't even want to start talking about SPORKS!!!
Dogs with owners attack because:
1) Owners don't train them and aren't the Alpha
2) Owners aren't around (or paying attention to) the dog when another dog/child/person does something that naturally provokes them
We have 2 GSD's..... we go on walks around the neighborhood without leashes.... no problems. They are excellent with our 2 year old son. What provokes them is any potential "threat" to their 'pack' (us) and their territory (roughly our property). They give obvious telltale signs, whether verbally or not, when they are upset. It isn't hard to identify.
1) Owners don't train them and aren't the Alpha
2) Owners aren't around (or paying attention to) the dog when another dog/child/person does something that naturally provokes them
We have 2 GSD's..... we go on walks around the neighborhood without leashes.... no problems. They are excellent with our 2 year old son. What provokes them is any potential "threat" to their 'pack' (us) and their territory (roughly our property). They give obvious telltale signs, whether verbally or not, when they are upset. It isn't hard to identify.
I grew up with Australian shepherds and Cattle Dogs (Heelers) as working dogs, on a livestock farm.
Since that time, I've never had a dog, despite my deep and enduring love for dogs. Why? Because I refuse to get a dog as a "pet" and my lifestyle doesn't support the 24/7 attention a shepherd or heeler needs to be a good citizen.
Dogs like them are active and energetic and will attack anything it deems a threat, and what they consider provocation is not what a random passing human would consider as provocative. Training, space and proper socialization are absolutely key. People who get dogs, esp. active dogs and neglect to properly socialize/train them are just asking for trouble, imo.
BTW, having worked with so many dogs, I can tell you that there ARE bad dogs out there. We had a shepherd named Rudy who was a sneaky SOB who was always up to something, and you could see it in his body language. He was mean, especially when he thought he wasn't being watched, and eventually ended up taking a long nap.
Since that time, I've never had a dog, despite my deep and enduring love for dogs. Why? Because I refuse to get a dog as a "pet" and my lifestyle doesn't support the 24/7 attention a shepherd or heeler needs to be a good citizen.
Dogs like them are active and energetic and will attack anything it deems a threat, and what they consider provocation is not what a random passing human would consider as provocative. Training, space and proper socialization are absolutely key. People who get dogs, esp. active dogs and neglect to properly socialize/train them are just asking for trouble, imo.
BTW, having worked with so many dogs, I can tell you that there ARE bad dogs out there. We had a shepherd named Rudy who was a sneaky SOB who was always up to something, and you could see it in his body language. He was mean, especially when he thought he wasn't being watched, and eventually ended up taking a long nap.
Obvious signs, like eating the baby, who surely did "something that naturally provoked them"?
3-day old baby killed by family's dogs in Fresno Video
Tragic absolutely. The animal most likely wasn't trained and the owner wasn't in control.
Read between the lines....
A "family dog" was thought to be tied up? This insinuates that the owner thought it was safe to open the door because the "family friendly dog" was tied up.
Children get bit because they make a lot of fast or gabby motions towards a dog's face. Yes, every dog will be different (and is up to the owner to know and train the animal, especially if they will be around young children) in that tolerances will be vastly different. The baby left unattended could simply have hit the dog in the face, and if the dog was aggressive and not trained it could have been provoked.
Dogs are animals... they are provoked different than we are.... what doesn't make sense as being provoked or attacked to us could be to them.
I'm not dismissing what happened was terrible nor that the dog should be put down, but there is a lot of blame to the mother/parents... there's more to the story than we will ever hear.
Read between the lines....
A "family dog" was thought to be tied up? This insinuates that the owner thought it was safe to open the door because the "family friendly dog" was tied up.
Children get bit because they make a lot of fast or gabby motions towards a dog's face. Yes, every dog will be different (and is up to the owner to know and train the animal, especially if they will be around young children) in that tolerances will be vastly different. The baby left unattended could simply have hit the dog in the face, and if the dog was aggressive and not trained it could have been provoked.
Dogs are animals... they are provoked different than we are.... what doesn't make sense as being provoked or attacked to us could be to them.
I'm not dismissing what happened was terrible nor that the dog should be put down, but there is a lot of blame to the mother/parents... there's more to the story than we will ever hear.
Like everything, generations change. These new dogs just don't care. The first is Bentley. Very responsible, never made a mess in the carpet. Love's everyone, even his VET. There is also a picture of his son ,holden That dog doesn't care. He barks but doesn't bite. And he does not like his VET.... So much. Jk both dogs are super easy going. They enjoying being around kids at the local park and vice versa.
Holden, the bad dog. Victim and a goat (ears) and happy tail. But a great dog. Most dogs are great, just need the right upbringing. We shouldn't lump them all together based on bad decisions we as people choose to make
Here you go:
Biting Dogs and Dangerous Breeds
Fortunately, a study commissioned by the U.S. National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, which was published in 2000, does provide some information. It is based upon the one class of dog bites that must be registered, namely those resulting in death. The study spanned a period of 19 years and found that there were 238 dog bite related deaths during that time--roughly 12 per year.
Insurance companies have a strong enough opinion to deny homeowners coverage for certain breeds:
14 Dog Breeds Blacklisted by Insurance Companies
The motivation for denying insurance to households with certain breeds of dogs is based upon financial considerations. As one representative of Allstate Insurance told me, "We are in the business of evaluating risk, and based on what we know the dogs on our 'uninsurable list' pose a higher risk." She went on to tell me that dog bites are a major financial burden for the insurance industry. "Dog bite related claims accounted for more than one third of all homeowners insurance liability claims paid out in 2013. That amounted to about $490 million, with the average claim costing close to $30,000. But actual costs can be much higher. In 2011 A Washington State Superior Court jury awarded a $2.2 million verdict to a woman who was attacked by two neighborhood pitbulls near her home in Tacoma, Washington.
Looking at the various uninsurable dog lists I found a reasonable amount of variability as to which breeds were to be allowed or disallowed. Still there were 14 breeds of dogs which appeared on virtually all of the lists that I consulted. Most of these blacklisted not only the specific breed but any mixed breed that presumably included a genetic relationship to one of the banned breeds. The 14 most often blacklisted dog breeds were:
14 Dog Breeds Blacklisted by Insurance Companies
The motivation for denying insurance to households with certain breeds of dogs is based upon financial considerations. As one representative of Allstate Insurance told me, "We are in the business of evaluating risk, and based on what we know the dogs on our 'uninsurable list' pose a higher risk." She went on to tell me that dog bites are a major financial burden for the insurance industry. "Dog bite related claims accounted for more than one third of all homeowners insurance liability claims paid out in 2013. That amounted to about $490 million, with the average claim costing close to $30,000. But actual costs can be much higher. In 2011 A Washington State Superior Court jury awarded a $2.2 million verdict to a woman who was attacked by two neighborhood pitbulls near her home in Tacoma, Washington.
Looking at the various uninsurable dog lists I found a reasonable amount of variability as to which breeds were to be allowed or disallowed. Still there were 14 breeds of dogs which appeared on virtually all of the lists that I consulted. Most of these blacklisted not only the specific breed but any mixed breed that presumably included a genetic relationship to one of the banned breeds. The 14 most often blacklisted dog breeds were:
- Pit Bull Terriers
- Staffordshire Terriers
- Rottweilers
- German Shepherds
- Presa Canarios
- Chows Chows
- Doberman Pinschers
- Akitas
- Wolf-hybrids
- Mastiffs
- Cane Corsos
- Great Danes
- Alaskan Malamutes
- Siberian Huskies
bobm
WTF, WTF, WTF!!!!
Funny. I have a Dane, and a bullmastiff. Both very (not overly.) Protective. Neither one has bit anything or anybody, if threatened the Bull mastiff prefers to knock the intruder down and wait for its Owner or for the Dane which would bite an intruder. Prior I owned a Cane Corso at 6 months this dog was 90 lbs, 160 as an adult. He was so well trained and went to daycare weekly to spend time with other dogs. The best dog I've ever had. He would've died for me or my wife. Was he protective, f**king right. It was his job which has been passed to the others. It ain't the breed it's the owner. 30 to 40 years ago it was the Cocker spaniel. Look at the history. Oh and I had a Samoyed, he was the 1 I worried about. 
I had a pit attack my German shepherd I had to kick the s*** out of the pit while blocking off my shepherd, cause she will fight back, I don't think it is always the dogs fault cause this kid who owned it was not to I tune to his dog ,the night before got into it with another dog, I think it is owner and dogs fault, the owner for not training the dog and the fact like said before some dogs have that drive in them, if you know your dog will start it with others you need to be on it or put the dog down. I prob would have shot the dog if the owner wasn't there or if it latched on to me or my dog
gregnash
Anal Retentive Analyst
Ignorance by owner with regard to lack of training for the animal and ignorance by the owner for not paying attention to their animal. That is the simple fact, yes there are dogs that will be more prone to attack other dogs, etc. however it comes to the proper training of the dog by the owner, socialization and so on. Take all the dogs breeds listed in the "Blacklist" above.. there is a common between all the breeds and that is that they were bred for their size and specific, heavy muscle based jobs which makes them large dogs.
The reason that you do not see the statistics for something like a Jack Russell Terrier being a "killer" breed is because they lack the size and bite force to be able to do such a sustainable amount of damage to anything larger than a toddler. Stupid ISHT like that list is all based on how the statistics are viewed and perceived in a controlled environment.
The one that I love the most is the people who post up videos on Facebook about dog attacks, dogs attacking police officers and are pissed about the officer killing their dog, etc. Not one of these videos ever shows an officer killing a golden retriever specifically because you will not see a "thug" with a golden or the "demographic" of person that is shown in the video to have an animal that is not primarily there for "protection".
A lot of the problem with BSL is that it is so vague that any interpretation of the law can be taken without much merit behind the interpretation and still be considered legal. For instance, the recent readings on the Canada situation is that the law is so vague that "any dog that resembles the appearance of a pit bull" can be taken into custody. If the information comes back that the dog is partially pit (regardless of the percentage) or is inconclusive they can actually euthanize the animal without any recourse. That is like saying because I have a beard and when I don't shave it and it gets longer that it makes me look middle eastern that suddenly I am "of suspect". Then I have to PROVE that I am not, otherwise I will be deported or whatever. While that is a gross generalization it is basically on line with what is happening.
The one question that I have with that @ajax1 is that with your statement if you took that upon yourself and your family would you feel the same? Meaning, if you had a son and he had the proclivity to fight, ended up that he was a bigger kid than all the others, would that mean that you would put him down? You wouldn't try to reform him? Simply just because he shows the proclivity to fight, no investigation to see if he can be reformed or even any attempt, you would just say "Meh. We can make another. *BANG*" and be done with it? Or better yet, what if the kid WAS working on it but was so distracted by something else the he momentarily lost sight of his dog. Suddenly that means that the dog, for this one instance, should be euthanized? What if it was your german shepherd (part of that blacklist mind you) and it just so happened that it was nothing more than that one time?
The reason that you do not see the statistics for something like a Jack Russell Terrier being a "killer" breed is because they lack the size and bite force to be able to do such a sustainable amount of damage to anything larger than a toddler. Stupid ISHT like that list is all based on how the statistics are viewed and perceived in a controlled environment.
The one that I love the most is the people who post up videos on Facebook about dog attacks, dogs attacking police officers and are pissed about the officer killing their dog, etc. Not one of these videos ever shows an officer killing a golden retriever specifically because you will not see a "thug" with a golden or the "demographic" of person that is shown in the video to have an animal that is not primarily there for "protection".
A lot of the problem with BSL is that it is so vague that any interpretation of the law can be taken without much merit behind the interpretation and still be considered legal. For instance, the recent readings on the Canada situation is that the law is so vague that "any dog that resembles the appearance of a pit bull" can be taken into custody. If the information comes back that the dog is partially pit (regardless of the percentage) or is inconclusive they can actually euthanize the animal without any recourse. That is like saying because I have a beard and when I don't shave it and it gets longer that it makes me look middle eastern that suddenly I am "of suspect". Then I have to PROVE that I am not, otherwise I will be deported or whatever. While that is a gross generalization it is basically on line with what is happening.
The one question that I have with that @ajax1 is that with your statement if you took that upon yourself and your family would you feel the same? Meaning, if you had a son and he had the proclivity to fight, ended up that he was a bigger kid than all the others, would that mean that you would put him down? You wouldn't try to reform him? Simply just because he shows the proclivity to fight, no investigation to see if he can be reformed or even any attempt, you would just say "Meh. We can make another. *BANG*" and be done with it? Or better yet, what if the kid WAS working on it but was so distracted by something else the he momentarily lost sight of his dog. Suddenly that means that the dog, for this one instance, should be euthanized? What if it was your german shepherd (part of that blacklist mind you) and it just so happened that it was nothing more than that one time?
ewillis
SILVER Star
I don't trust any large animal with my kids. A number of years back in my neighborhood, a husky killed a baby when the mother went to the door to talk to a salesperson. Tried to find the story, but unfortunately found 3 more just like it 2010 Dog Bite Fatality: 11-Day Old Baby Killed by Family Husky Dog in Independence - DogsBite.org
I've always had German Rottweilers...5 of them in all. Big head males, but once I had kids...no more. Now I have two small yappy rescue dogs. Not worth the risk IMHO
I've always had German Rottweilers...5 of them in all. Big head males, but once I had kids...no more. Now I have two small yappy rescue dogs. Not worth the risk IMHO
This is my girl, Cleo. I rescued her almost two years ago and she's been the most loyal dog I've ever owned. She absolutely loves people and kids and the biggest cuddle bug.
When I got her she had a bunch of little scars all over her head and shoulders. A few on her legs. Obviously whoever had her previously probably tried to fight her and she was probably dumped because she didn't put up much of a fight. I'm not sure. All I know is I trust her completely.
We've had a few baby/toddlers around her and she shows no aggression at all when they pull a foot or touch her tail. However, it's my obligation as a responsible dog owner to tell the child NOT to do that. Regardless if I know she might bite or not. Kids don't know. They don't know the severity of tugging on a dogs ear that doesn't like it. Even adults for that matter. I NEVER touch a dogs ear that I don't know because it could have an ear infection that could possibly hurt the dog, piss it off, and then lunge or snap at me possibly. I keep a safe loving distance.
I NEVER let her walk around outside without a leash. I NEVER let her do her business in the backyard without watching her. She NEVER leaves my sight. I'm not saying that because I don't trust her. I'm saying that because I don't trust other people's dogs. I'll be damned if my neighbors yip yap Jack Russell gets through the fence, starts s*** with MY dog, get into a fight, and MY dog gets put down for it because she's a pitbull and my neighbors lack of responsibility on keeping their dog in check.
I know there's rogue dogs out there, but I feel most of it is due to it being inbred dogs. Just like with humans, you can have 10 people in a room, and there's always 1 that's just different than others and can pop off at anytime on somebody.
When I got her she had a bunch of little scars all over her head and shoulders. A few on her legs. Obviously whoever had her previously probably tried to fight her and she was probably dumped because she didn't put up much of a fight. I'm not sure. All I know is I trust her completely.
We've had a few baby/toddlers around her and she shows no aggression at all when they pull a foot or touch her tail. However, it's my obligation as a responsible dog owner to tell the child NOT to do that. Regardless if I know she might bite or not. Kids don't know. They don't know the severity of tugging on a dogs ear that doesn't like it. Even adults for that matter. I NEVER touch a dogs ear that I don't know because it could have an ear infection that could possibly hurt the dog, piss it off, and then lunge or snap at me possibly. I keep a safe loving distance.
I NEVER let her walk around outside without a leash. I NEVER let her do her business in the backyard without watching her. She NEVER leaves my sight. I'm not saying that because I don't trust her. I'm saying that because I don't trust other people's dogs. I'll be damned if my neighbors yip yap Jack Russell gets through the fence, starts s*** with MY dog, get into a fight, and MY dog gets put down for it because she's a pitbull and my neighbors lack of responsibility on keeping their dog in check.
I know there's rogue dogs out there, but I feel most of it is due to it being inbred dogs. Just like with humans, you can have 10 people in a room, and there's always 1 that's just different than others and can pop off at anytime on somebody.
LINUS
Waiting for the Great Pumpkin
I'm sooooo glad BSL lost momentum.
That said, I've been graced with a 1/2Rottweiler / 1/2 Staff Terrier & a purebred, hotshot lineage Boxer.
--(I dislike 'Pitbull' like I dislike 'assault rifle'), so I call all Staff Terriers, despite being a specific breed. I can stand someone telling me 'not the exact right term'.
My Rottie Terrier was a totally smart, gentle dog who I labeled a 'lab mix' his first visit to the vet - despite the telltale 'diamond' top of skull shape, they never corrected & he was fine on my homeowner's policy.
That said, I took full responsibility for him, had a 6' chain link fence out back that was buried 6" into the ground & trained & socialized him quite well.
There was only one incident ever where he 'leaned' against a 3yo person & sat her on her butt - being a Staffie I treated him like a loaded gun. You never leave a kid with a loaded gun, why leave a dog (any breed really) unsupervised.
My big thing when training was to really get my fingers in his mouth when feeding treats & teach him to have a soft bite. It paid off, he was a champ - licking spray cheese or peanut butter he'd lick & never teeth you.
By contrast, Boxers are more inclined to 'tooth' you than the Terriers, they just do it slowly & gentle. The Boxer is almost 3 & he tests me plenty on that (and he's not as intelligent either - cute as heck, but not brilliant).
The behavior of the dog is 100% the owner if you get a pup (rehomes come with baggage) - the issue I will acknowledge is a Terrier is like a Ferrari & a Golden Retriever is like a Prius. The Ferrari can get into an ackward situation quicker with an undertrained driver.
But when you look at the numbers, more Golden Retrievers bite annually than any other dog - yes, it's the most common dog but nobody reports the stats that way. My vet dropped that little nugget.
Rather than BSL, I'd be in favor of legislation that if you had ever been convicted or animal cruelty or had a dog put down for a bite issue, you would be barred from owning any of the higher risk dogs like that list the insurance companies identified.
If you failed to train a Rottie & he bit, you don't want that bozo getting a Doberman or a Cane Corso or Bull Mastiff - that person would be a liability to the reputation of whatever breed dog they owned.
That said, I've been graced with a 1/2Rottweiler / 1/2 Staff Terrier & a purebred, hotshot lineage Boxer.
--(I dislike 'Pitbull' like I dislike 'assault rifle'), so I call all Staff Terriers, despite being a specific breed. I can stand someone telling me 'not the exact right term'.
My Rottie Terrier was a totally smart, gentle dog who I labeled a 'lab mix' his first visit to the vet - despite the telltale 'diamond' top of skull shape, they never corrected & he was fine on my homeowner's policy.
That said, I took full responsibility for him, had a 6' chain link fence out back that was buried 6" into the ground & trained & socialized him quite well.
There was only one incident ever where he 'leaned' against a 3yo person & sat her on her butt - being a Staffie I treated him like a loaded gun. You never leave a kid with a loaded gun, why leave a dog (any breed really) unsupervised.
My big thing when training was to really get my fingers in his mouth when feeding treats & teach him to have a soft bite. It paid off, he was a champ - licking spray cheese or peanut butter he'd lick & never teeth you.
By contrast, Boxers are more inclined to 'tooth' you than the Terriers, they just do it slowly & gentle. The Boxer is almost 3 & he tests me plenty on that (and he's not as intelligent either - cute as heck, but not brilliant).
The behavior of the dog is 100% the owner if you get a pup (rehomes come with baggage) - the issue I will acknowledge is a Terrier is like a Ferrari & a Golden Retriever is like a Prius. The Ferrari can get into an ackward situation quicker with an undertrained driver.
But when you look at the numbers, more Golden Retrievers bite annually than any other dog - yes, it's the most common dog but nobody reports the stats that way. My vet dropped that little nugget.
Rather than BSL, I'd be in favor of legislation that if you had ever been convicted or animal cruelty or had a dog put down for a bite issue, you would be barred from owning any of the higher risk dogs like that list the insurance companies identified.
If you failed to train a Rottie & he bit, you don't want that bozo getting a Doberman or a Cane Corso or Bull Mastiff - that person would be a liability to the reputation of whatever breed dog they owned.
