Cummins B3.3 FJ45 (2 Viewers)

[Grease Cruiser]

Very VERY seriously considering this. I'm at a little bit of a stumbling block that others probably can't help much with but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts........................I'm going to have somebody drop a B3.3 in here unless the general consensus is that I'd be a complete Cretin for doing that. Might even then as I'm a partial Cretin anyway... but weigh in on this:

Good idea?

Bad idea?



(edit: pic added)

First of all: You should not let other people's opinions influence your own. It's your truck and only you can make the decision of what to do with it. I think it's great to get others people's opinions but they are worth what you pay them for. It's definitely not an easy decision so give it some time. You will make the right decision.


Second: I think your deciding factor should be; How much are you going to drive it?

If you are going to drive it a lot such as daily driver use, then go for the B3.3 if that is what you want to do. It makes more sense to modify it since most people desire SAFETY & COMFORT when it comes to a daily driver or a long distance rig. This is exactly what Scott did. He plans on using his truck daily and as a work truck. It's not going to sit in a garage and look pretty and get driven every once in awhile. For Scott, the B3.3 made sense.

If you don't plan on driving it much except for short trips or sunny days, then it may be best to leave it as is. It runs/drives and you will be preserving it for what it is.

In my personal (professional?) opinion, diesels are meant to be driven. All engines, really but diesels especially. They are meant to be used and used hard. The B3.3 is an industrial engine, so give it what it wants.

A diesel swap is not a cheap expense so if you are going to go to all the trouble of converting it, you better plan on driving it. Other wise, it just does not make sense to dump a lot of $$ into it, to have it sit.

Ultimately, it's your money and it's your truck. Do what you want with it.


Third: Nice 45 by the way.


To be honest with you, I am on the fence with my 45 as well. The B3.3 is a great swap but I think I just talked myself out of it for now. I already have a HDJ80 and will be converting my 55 to a 1HZ in the near future. Do I really need another diesel.....probably not. I really don't plan on driving my 45 cross country or that much as a daily driver. I will drive it to work occasionally but not full time use. The F is fine for me at this point. If the F decides to give up, then I may change my mind later.

 

[nickwood48]

Another thing

Another thing to consider:

If to Toyota had access to an engine similiar to B3.3 when they orignally manuf. the rig, would they had used it?

I would guess so.

If you do go through with the swap, you may be ruining it for the purists, BUT your keeping the engineering 'spirit' alive and using an highly reliable, effecient, mechanically simple component - I am sure the orignal engineers would be giving you a high five.

 

[nickwood48]

But in the end, the END, ya can't take it with you, or anything else for that matter, so I guess everything we own goes to somebody else, and effectively we are custodians of all our stuff.


Since no museum is banging down your door with a wheelbarrow load of cash for it, cash that you could use to find a second truck to tinker with, looks like the decision is pretty easy.
.

Well said.

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Short of running the truck through a shredder, anything you do to it can be undone, especially if you keep the parts that are removed - that includes drive train. Or you could sell the removed parts to someone who is doing a restoration to original specs.

 

[4XLT]

Good comments.

I generally favor a preservation approach, but a truck kept truly stock with museum care is going to be a very rare thing, and it's not much fun, I'd think. We are a group of people who like old trucks, so there is something to the preservation idea in all of us. Seeing a cut up monstrosity made out of a rare vehicle eats at me some but I wouldn't suppose to tell anyone what they can do to their truck.

There is subjectivity in everything, like some people think once you've painted it, it's not "original" so it's bad. "What, you recovered the seats?!? I thought it was original." Oh come on.

You have to decide for yourself what the limits are when repairing or modernizing because you can't actually run a truck and keep it exactly as it was when it was brand new, it's not possible, parts and systems will always need to be replaced and trucks rot when they sit.

I tend to think mods which can be reversed readily (also a subjective concept) are perfectly fine and don't bruise my old-fasioned sensibilities. Lifts, wheels, seats, disc brakes are mostly just turns of some bolts or screws anyway, no big deal. Engine swaps are one step beyond the bolt-turning threshold but still close enough if you ask me.

If I read correctly, your current engine is period, but not the one that Toyota first put in the truck on the assembly line. To me, that's all the license you need to put a different engine in there. Anyone can always swap in a period engine later if they want.

To me, enjoy the truck, take good care of it, do what is necessary to accomplish both, but don't do something which can't be reversed and ruin it for the next guy.

 

[legion]

If I read correctly, your current engine is period, but not the one that Toyota first put in the truck on the assembly line. To me, that's all the license you need to put a different engine in there. Anyone can always swap in a period engine later if they want.

Yes... it's an old 1F engine that was rebuilt some years back and still runs great, is smooth, doesn't blow smoke, etc., but as far as engines go the old 1F right out of the box had a budding case of emphysema. That becomes more and more apparent the higher up in the mountains you live. Wouldn't be a concern if the tranny had more than 3 gears but once you dive in to revise one aspect several others come into focus.

I very much appreciate all of your well thought out responses and will be giving this quite a bit of thought over the next few days. Interesting that so far all comments have been in favor of making reasonable safety and driveability revisions except for your's, Peter, and if I'm not mistaken the TUV does not allow modification so you might have a natural predisposition to leave stuff alone, no? In your case I actually like the idea of the TUV as here in the US you can pretty much drive any clapped out piece of crap anywhere as long as the lights and signals work. If that same approach were applied to autobahn traffic the results would be disastrous.

Still listening and thinking...

 

[My wife said no FJ!]

Well...it truly will be up to you in the end, but since you asked...

First, that is one very nice looking rig!!!

I am a purist. Currently I am restoring my '64, and yes, I am looking for a 1F...actually an F135, as I have an F155 in there now. This will not be my daily driver, just a fun project that I am restoring with my daughter. The plan is to return her to the way she looked when she got off the boat. IF, I were to make any mods, they would be a dual circuit master (no booster) roll bar, and 3 or 4 point seat belts up front. Yes, a true restoration is harder to do, but I like restoring things, so it was only natural that we would restore this rig to a driving museum piece...I do plan to drive it.

So, if you could afford to find another 45, then I would restore this one, and build the other.

On the other hand, if you just want ONE toy in your garage, and you are one of those people like me who keep their cars a long, long time, then by all means, just fix it the way you want it, and drive and enjoy it!!!

Are you a collector? or Do just like to drive and enjoy your toys? This would be your first question, that should answer you question pretty quickly

BTW...that is a '63 correct? Just to let you know, my wife LOVES the '63 SWB 45. We saw one this summer, and apparently getting one is on her list

 

[a.greenspan]

Y...except for your's, Peter, and if I'm not mistaken the TUV does not allow modification so you might have a natural predisposition to leave stuff alone, no? In your case I actually

Still listening and thinking...

Hi legion,
no the TUV *is not the reason, you can modify cars here in Germany.
( not so easy you guys can do it , but if you want there is a way)
I wrote it, if I buy a vintage car, I want a vintage car nothing else
Cheers
Peter

* Tax can be a reason here in Germany.
All cars older than 30 years can get a historic registration.
To get this registration, the car must be original, no modification allowed.
Tax year 184 € ( historic)
Tax year for a modified FJ45 about ( don`t know it exact)1200 €

 

[legion]

BTW...that is a '63 correct? Just to let you know, my wife LOVES the '63 SWB 45. We saw one this summer, and apparently getting one is on her list

The VIN and the frame look like it was probably assembled in '63 but sold in '64 and titled as a '64.

Sounds like your wife has xlnt tastes. Be sure you don't get caught up in the leg room issue as the fixed cabs have about 3" less distance from the doorjamb back than the non-fixed. Good luck and thanks for your perspective.

I wrote it, if I buy a vintage car, I want a vintage car nothing else
Cheers
Peter

I definitely understand that.

 

[Eco 45]

B3.3 cold weather starting

Just thought I would go back on topic with the B3.3 engine. We have had a few nights down near 10F so I have been experimenting with seeing how the B3.3 would handle the cold with and without using the intake heater. The B3.3 without using the intake heater actually starts up easier than my Dodge 12valve cummins---and its intake heater is automatic.

Without the use of the intake heater the B3.3 with rattle your fillings a little for the first few minutes of idle. If you use the intake heater it eliminates the shaking that occurs and the truck idles smoothly right away. I did up my idle from factory specs of 800 rpm to 900 rpm because the truck would seem to shake a little at the 800 rpm idle---this small adjustment allows one to drink a cup of coffee while idling without fear.

Also on another note---used the number off the cummins oil filter at the local Napa store and they were able to use it to reference one of there filters---so no need to run to cummins for parts. Its been a blast to drive so far and I have finally tracked down all the electrical bugs and everything is a 100% operational---I am waiting for a new horn--but the wires work. So far I like this engine more with each drive. I am ready to do another conversion.

 

[legion]

I was wondering about cold weather starts.

Truth be told I've only owned one diesel before. F350 w/ a P-Stroke. Chipped it, piped it, fogged the incoming air charge w/ a snort of propane. It was easily one of my favorite motors. Make that two. I've got a New Holland tractor w/ a diesel.

Both have glow plugs and in the cold I just hit 'em twice. When you say intake heater are you refering to glow plugs? Is there a best option on this engine for cold starts?

In the youtube demo of the B3.3 starting it looks like there was no pre-heat circuit... the guy just turned the key and fired it up. I assumed that it may have just been shut off though and was still warm.

As you drive it more are you noticing any change in performance or mileage?

Sorry about the hijack.

 

[Eco 45]

This engine does not have glow plugs. As an option you can purchase an intake heater---which is basically a wire grid that heats the air coming into the engine when it is turned on. This same type of system is used on the cummins in the dodge trucks---they are just set up on a timer based on temp. The B3.3 does not come with any type of preheat system or glow plugs---one has to add the intake heater as an option. The B3.3 in the jeep most likely did not have an intake heater--or it could have the owner chose not to use it when starting. I have found that if the engine is even remotely warm the intake heater is not needed. I operate my intake heater by a push button above my ignition. Just hold it in for about eight seconds and then turn the key.

As with any diesel if you are operating in really cold weather use a thinner oil, proper diesel grade, some sort of coolant heater and an intake heater. Personally I think this engine would do fine down to temps around 0 F with just an intake heater, right diesel and the right oil---and probably lower. When I lived in WY I used to have start my Dodge 12 valve in Temps around -20 F with only the intake heater, 50/50 diesel blend and proper oil---truck hasn't died yet and has over 200K and running strong.

I haven't noticed any change in performance---although I wasn't really expecting one. I haven't changed any fuel or boost settings so performance should really change. I need to caulculate mileage again---if anything over time as the engine breaks in I will most likely gain a mile or two per gallon.

No worries about the hijack---making a decision about modifying a vehicle can be hard---especially if you have never been able to experience one first hand. You should just take a trip down to Bend OR and ride in mine then you will now what it would be like. I am impressed with the little engine and will be putting another B3.3 in a Toyota in about two months--this time with a 700R4 Auto. I am addicted to diesel engines---what can I say.

 

[Awl_TEQ]

This engine does not have glow plugs. As an option you can purchase an intake heater---which is basically a wire grid that heats the air coming into the engine when it is turned on.

Picture a toaster stuck in your intake

 

[legion]

Interesting. Looks like the QSB3.3 has been used to repower a 4x recently. Here's a link to the site:

Link to specific post

Link to thread

I think the NV3500 has been a pretty good match to the engine. I am using a shorter tire than you a 225/60/16 and have a 3.08 rear gear. With the taller tires you have the only thing I would be concerned about is at cruzing speed in overdrive having much passing power.

Yeah, I've given that some thought. At 1600 RPM the QSB3.3T is making 90+ HP & 300+ LB-FT. I'm hoping this is enough to provide adequate accelaration at highway speeds. If necessary, I can use tire size to fine tune cruise RPM.

Using the parameters you've listed, I've generated a table that should represent your build.


NV3500, 3.08 gears and 225/60/16 tires

RPM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
500 3 6 9 13 18
600 4 7 11 15 21
700 4 8 13 18 25
800 5 9 15 21 28
900 6 10 17 23 32
1000 6 11 18 26 35
1100 7 12 20 28 39
1200 8 13 22 31 42
1300 8 14 24 33 46
1400 9 16 26 36 49
1500 10 17 28 39 53
1600 10 18 29 41 56
1700 11 19 31 44 60
1800 12 20 33 46 63
1900 12 21 35 49 67
2000 13 22 37 51 70
2100 13 23 39 54 74
2200 14 24 40 57 78
2300 15 26 42 59 81
2400 15 27 44 62 85
2500 16 28 46 64 88
2600 17 29 48 67 92

 

[PurpleFJ62]

WOW!! How is the cummins holding up?

 

[D'Animal]

An FJ 45 doing 92mph?

 

[Bear]

What happens when a theoretical mathematician meets a practical aerodynamics engineer?

Sorta like that high school question: If a steel ball and a feather are both dropped simultaneously in a vacuum, which will hit the ground first? I always had a hard time with that one, seein as how we don't actually live in a vacuum, 'cept maybe those of us obsessed with Land Cruisers !

 

[Lucy_FJ55]

Very interesting engine... can't wait to run into you around town. I would love to look at this swap in person. Funny thing, my wife came home yesterday and described your truck exactly, she saw you driving around north of town aparently and knows that I love FJ45 pick ups also.

 

[Eco 45]

Lucy_FJ55 I would be glad to show you the truck. I bounce down into bend often for various items---although I am up closer to Sisters. FJ45 seem like little lost puppies with me and keep following me home. I hope to be doing a B3.3 install in a couple more months on another FJ45. I like the engine and the way it performs.

 

[Lucy_FJ55]

Hmmm, are you talking about a sea-foam green FJ45? Were you the guy that bought both FJ45's (dark green and a sea-foam green rig) from the same seller a while back? Just curious. Oh, and that FJ45LV you have for sale looks purty too. I'm sure I'll run into you soon...