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wtb: washing machine - used but in good shape for the detail shop here at work for washing towels.

please PM me if you have one.

Thank you


Go to Stardust industries, they usually have several at dirt cheap prices.
 
I'm sorry (actually, **** that, I'm NOT sorry) but placing spikes on legal trails is absolutely bull****. It's terrorism, plain and simple. How anyone, especially anyone who is a "fellow" four-wheeler or not, could think that they agree with the motivation is... breathtakingly stupid. So it's OK, right? Well, let's say someone decides "you know, those damn fishermen, disturbing the fish, walking in the mud, whatever, they need to be taken down several dozen pegs, so they take all kinds of "monkey-wrench" tactics to keep those bastards away. And then a kid loses an eye, or something equally bad.

"Oh well, they shouldn't have been fishing there!"

Seriously, to think is is OK... you've got to be ****ting me.

Not sure where you are going with this. I reread the thread many times. I don't see anyone here agree with what they did.
 
Saddletramps restored 40 is looking like the standard for magazine articles....

From this months version of Hagerty classic car magazine
 

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For you folks that grew up here like I did:

Bill Thompson of 'Wallace and Ladmo' dies
Bill "Wallace" Thompson, who created, produced and co-starred in "The Wallace and Ladmo Show," a children's program infused with offbeat humor that endeared it to generations of Arizonans during its more than 35-year run....
Click on the link below:

http://azc.cc/1rCnYRq
 
I think that is a great idea Zona. I suggest these topics could be addressed at the next CSC group meeting ?

X2 - will keep an eye out for an ROTM including/covering some recovery 101 (great idea, Zona). I generally can't make the monthly meetings, just not an ideal day of the week despite the location being just a few minutes away from where I work, but please consider this a vote from me. Positive thinking it actually happens but perhaps we should stage the event as "OMG I just ran over some f'ing rebar spikes, blew a tire and am in a ditch in need of some immediate recovery!". :hmm:
 
This is what I read today:
Here is the link (See Chapter 4).

According to my simple math the safety margin is only 2:1 ... and I think a steel belt will fare better than a rubber shoe sole. So whoever says they are foot safe is an idiot, and a moron for trying to defend this as a good thing. Anything indiscriminate like this is simply a damaged brain at work.

Item ... W ..... L .... SqIn . Cnt .. Weight . PSI
Foot .. 3.25 . 10.00 .. 32.50 2.00 .. 250.00 . 3.85
Tire . 12.50 . 12.00 . 150.00 4.00 . 4500.00 . 7.50
 
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According to my simple math the safety margin is only 2:1 ... and I think a steel belt will fare better than a rubber shoe sole. So whoever says they are foot safe is an idiot, and a moron for trying to defend this as a good thing. Anything indiscriminate like this is simply a damaged brain at work.

Item ... W ..... L .... SqIn . Cnt .. Weight . PSI
Foot .. 3.25 . 10.00 .. 32.50 2.00 .. 250.00 . 3.85
Tire . 12.50 . 12.00 . 150.00 4.00 . 4500.00 . 7.50


Let's not forget that those instructions were written 21 years ago. The current trend in footwear is toward glorified running shoes and minimalist footwear. A heavyweight hiking boot from 20-30 years ago might have provided protection. Modern footwear? Don't hold your breath.
 
So now Happy Jack is a place to go running. I have a news flash for you there are plenty of other natural sharp objects in the forest with higher chances of doing harm then your foot finding one of this spikes. If your running best to stay on the main dirt roads in the area. But in all my years in Happy Jack I have never come across runners in the forestwho weren't on a main forest road. If you know where it is the AZ Trail is in the area but never seen quad trail by that. Most hiking trails in the area are just that hiking trails. The problem can't be put on drunks in the area either. Happy Jack is a family friendly camping area very popular during the summer. Watch the link I posted. That was a family outing not a bunch of drunks. Sad part was the woman had the attitude everybody does it so it's okay which is a attitude being passed onto the next generation. I would be interested what the other ways are to educate the public. At one time the forest service had the Happy Jack ranger station, Blue Ridge ranger station and a visitors center at Clint's Well. The Happy Jack ranger station faces the road and looked inviting. Been over ten years since it's been closed to the public. 07 or 08 the information center was closed and removed. It was next to the restaurant. That leaves the Blue Ridge ranger station. Open Monday to Friday 8:00 to 4:30. It's a dark brown building that the back faces the road. If there wasn't a sign driving by you wouldn't even realize what it is. The only way it could be in a worse location is if it was a 1/2 mile further up highway 87. With the way Jack's Canyon and East Clear Creek both run close to 87 and all the private land in the narrowest part most forest visitor don't go past FS roads 95 and 211. Both of which are just past the ranger station. Forest Service has one LEO in the area with a couple seasonal workers patrolling. The seasonal are not LEO nor are they armed. This is national forest not state trust land. While no permits required it also means the county law enforcement patrolling. That goes for state as well. The county has one deputy in area who mainly patrols the highway and the subdivisions in area. I'm sure he would be there for back up if needed. This time of year Fish and Game is busy at all the rim lakes. Unlike the desert where it's possible to drive to a higher elevation and scope at large area for illegal activity that doesn't work in a forest full of tall pine trees. Even air patrols wouldn't work that well even if the forest service had a budget for that. If the Phoenix area had the same amount of LEOs per square mile as Coconino National Forest in Happy Jack area it would be like the movie the Purge.

The problem those formulas is that isn't how it works in real life. With a tire all the weight that is on the tire will be on what ever surface the tire is in contact with. The reason the spikes are raised. If they were flush with the ground it would puncture the tire. Just like all the sharp rocks in the area. It's how they contact your tire if they do damage or not. Human foot is not like a tire, it can rotate to try and even pressure out. If we do hear of any harm to humans from these spikes I would expect twisted ankles or injuries from falling on one not from the spike going thru a shoe. While I do not agree with the methods of these people I do not put then at the same level someone who would put piano wire across a trail at any level much less neck. Those people were out to personal harm. The others are targeting tires while still not right I understand better because of all the freedoms we are losing because a group has decided the rules don't apply to them. Because the everything is in Happy Jack it's impossible to enforce the rule of the roads in the area with resources available. All I see is more closeures in the future.

This sign is on a road that went down a rocky draw and then followed a fence line that during monsoon it would have about a foot of water because of the hard bottom. Grandkids always got a big kick when I would take them thru it. Youngest grandkids never got a chance since it been this way a while. Thanks quads

330.JPG
 
Just went through emissions at 23rd avenue/Peoria facility, no wait only took about 10 minutes from arrival to departure. Passed with flying colors too
 
My damn Subaru is way past due and has the CEL on. Pulled the code, standard O2 sensor code. Replaced sensors, cleared the code, drove it 50+ miles and took it to be tested, computer said "not ready for testing," needed to keep driving. Drove it a few more days and...the CEL came back on. :bang:
 
The reason a knife cuts something is the pressure it applies ... a shoe or a foot against a knife will cut as easily as a tire against a knife. Those spikes are sharpened like knives ... in some counties/states/countries the act of placing these booby traps is considered a terrorist act. There are ramifications and there is no excuse for such behavior. Pungy sticks, by the way, went right through the soles of US infantry boots. And those were just bamboo.

The general US and International law around such devices is:

"A booby trap may be defined as any concealed or camouflaged device designed to cause bodily injury when triggered by any action of a person making contact with the device. This term includes guns, ammunition, or explosive devices attached to trip wires or other triggering mechanisms, sharpened stakes, nails, spikes, electrical devices, lines or wires with hooks attached, and devices for the production of toxic fumes or gases.

If a person sets up such a trap to protect his/her property, he/she will be liable for any injury or death even to an unwanted intruder such as a burglar. It is illegal to set a booby trap on one's own property to prevent intruders."
 
If the Phoenix area had the same amount of LEOs per square mile as Coconino National Forest in Happy Jack area it would be like the movie the Purge.



View attachment 922097

The Mesa district of the FS is the largest and heaviest used district in the nation. They have one LEO. The land management agencies are desperately understaffed and over worked. Expecting them to solve all the problems is idiotic. That's why many of us spend dozens of hours per year volunteering. IMO, the fact that similar efforts don't exist in every forest district is inexcusable. This is our land, we have a responsibility to lend a hand in caring for it.

If these crack pots have the time to make and plant spikes, they damn well have the time to volunteer and do something that may have a positive impact. Undertaking a destructive and illegal activity to stop another one makes you no better than the people you're trying to stop, worse when the inevitable happens and some one gets hurt.
 
My damn Subaru is way past due and has the CEL on. Pulled the code, standard O2 sensor code. Replaced sensors, cleared the code, drove it 50+ miles and took it to be tested, computer said "not ready for testing," needed to keep driving. Drove it a few more days and...the CEL came back on. :bang:

Did the same thing a few months ago on an expedition. After that picked up one of those blue tooth scanners and connected it to Torque app on my phone. Best $18 I have spent on this rig yet.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1EF0F87540
 
If these crack pots have the time to make and plant spikes, they damn well have the time to volunteer and do something that may have a positive impact. Undertaking a destructive and illegal activity to stop another one makes you no better than the people you're trying to stop, worse when the inevitable happens and some one gets hurt.

That is out of character for these boobs, to be civilly responsible?? They are anarchists after all, it is what defines them.
 
That is out of character for these boobs, to be civilly responsible?? They are anarchists after all, it is what defines them.


These boobs like to think of themselves as morally superior to their mechanized peers. It would be nice to see them act like it instead of stooping to the level of the worst hillbillies.
 
Pungy sticks, by the way, went right through the soles of US infantry boots. And those were just bamboo.

Those bamboo sticks was cut at a angle to be very share and also in a camouflage hole below the surface. I believe the cages they kept are troops in were also made out of bamboo. Bamboo is pretty rigid stuff, not like a willow branch. Besides how they were used is not a apples to apples comparison. When a human is walking along and the foot meets a restriction sooner then the brain thinks it should it adjusts the pressure on the foot to maintain it's normal stride. When the foot steps on a hole and brain doesn't see the restriction expected it reacts by pushing the foot down faster to try and find solid ground to keep from falling. This is the reason the bamboo sticks were in a hole and not sticking out above the surface camouflage like these spikes. How fast the foot is moving plays into how much damage it will do. A spike above the ground is not the same as in a hole.

That's why many of us spend dozens of hours per year volunteering. IMO, the fact that similar efforts don't exist in every forest district is inexcusable. This is our land, we have a responsibility to lend a hand in caring for it.

So Mesa is the largest district. How much of that district is solely forest service and not private and state trust land? Bigger also means bigger budget. In Happy Jack they figure upgrading to hooded trail signs was more important than trying to help the public figure which roads are legal and which are not. I figure the east valley is million people out of the four million in the valley. If happy Jack has two hundred full time residents I would be surprised. Currently I believe it is less then K-12 kids in the area. Most residents are retired. If you figure out how many of that million volunteered and applied that to Happy Jack would you even have one person? Most the users in Happy Jack are from the valley but I don't see any effort for any clubs in the valley trying to help out in Happy Jack. Happy Jack is also different then the desert where there are main runs that with challenges. Happy Jack is all weather roads honeycombed with logging road. Just take a look at monthly runs compared to get out of the heat in Happy Jack (East Clear Creek) with not real four wheeling. What I find inexcusable is everyone wants to look at the Happy Jack area as they so everywhere else and no one has brought up any solutions that will work there. And from what I've seen how the forest service is handling it I'm not giving them a pass either.

I thought about this again yesterday afternoon as I drove back from the area and saw all the toyhaulers and trailers full quads headed up to the area.
 
... Anything indiscriminate like this is simply a damaged brain at work.
US troops have been employing the same types of tactics all over the world, since the birth of this nation. I won't even mention land mines, icbm's, torpedoes, grenades, carpet bombing, and nuclear war heads. Oops, I guess I did mention them.
Are you suddenly emotional about these tactics because it's happening in your backyard? If so, I get it. But, the whole self righteousness thing doesn't wash.

For the record, I'm not as lean and I'm not as mean, but I'm still a US Marine!
 
US troops have been employing the same types of tactics all over the world, since the birth of this nation. I won't even mention land mines, icbm's, torpedoes, grenades, carpet bombing, and nuclear war heads. Oops, I guess I did mention them.
Are you suddenly emotional about these tactics because it's happening in your backyard? If so, I get it. But, the whole self righteousness thing doesn't wash.

For the record, I'm not as lean and I'm not as mean, but I'm still a US Marine!

Don't forget the use of agent orange during Viet Nam which harmed our own troops.
 
Let's keep the spirit of this forum as it was intended--more information, less imagination.
 

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