Compatibility v. Availability 13 BT v. 14 BT or 15 BT

Discussion in 'Diesel Tech and 24 volts Systems' started by jabxyz, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. jabxyz

    jabxyz

    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    Central America and USA
    I had researched converting my 1980 BJ40 from a B to a 13BT and it is pretty much a straight swap bolt up deal with the exception of the change in drive shaft lengths. Today, while looking into a related subject, I ran across an old thread which began to compare (but never finished comparing) the 13BT to the 14B and the 15B. Maybe they lost interest in the project. http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-...-vs-13b-2.html I had pretty much decided to go with the 13BT previously when I read the thread today and realized that I hadn't considered the the 14 B or the 15B. From what I have been able to learn the 14B sounds like a beautiful beast which if turbo'd would be a dream. Will the 14B or the 15B drop in my engine bay the same as a 13B, same engine mounts? Will the 14 or 15B bolt onto either the H41 (current) or H55 (ordering) trannys? The 15 BT came with the Mega cruiser, really not much out there on the 15 BT, probably because not many Megas made. This makes me think that there will be big engine and then parts availability problems. Anyone have any experience with the 15 BT? It seems that Hino made these engines and placed them in Coaster buses and forklifts and the like, (not sure), as well as Cruisers which if true would make sourcing parts easy, right? I have searched Mud 8 ways to Sunday and can't get much on the 14 or 15 B or BT. Googling didn't help much either just random references in Aussie forums but nothing concrete. Cruiser FAQ was fine for specs but I was hoping to flesh this out more. As of right now I'm just doing regular maintainance on the B engine until I can source it's replacement. So this is of interest to me, hopefully others too. Thanks for your thoughts.
  2. The big problems with the 14B 15B is tracking one down. The 15B FTE is currently in production in oz spec Coasters so parts will be around for some time.
    Those who have done the 14B swap say it was easy but there are not many around. I know of 3.
    The engines are basically the same but the blocks are reinforced and bored out to 4 litre.
    Most 14B seem to be in Dyna trucks mid 80s mid 90s
    Local wrecker wants $3850 complete but he is not keen on sending them overseas
  3. Dougal

    Dougal

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    4,350
    Location:
    Kiwiland
    I've driven dyna trucks with the 14B, they were incredibly smooth and sweet for a 4 litre diesel. But they weren't turbocharged and I don't think I've seen a factory turbo dyna.
  4. jb BJ73

    jb BJ73

    Messages:
    321
    Location:
    Perth, West Oz
    was looking into these motors myself a while ago.
    the 4.1L 15B-F or FT is the one you would want - the F meaning 4 valves a cylinder.
    from what i could gather the 15B-F was made from 05/95 to 06/99, the FT from 05/95 to 05/99, and the FTE(electronicaly controlled pump) from 08/99 to 08/04.
    the trucks they were in (and don't take this as gospel) were the toyota dyna, diahatsu delta and hino ranger(i think that might be wrong cause the smaller hinos that i've seen are called dutros), with the model no. BU16. apparently the 15B-FT was in the coaster as well, model BB50.
    i don't think the FTE version would bolt up to your bellhousing cause it has a different setup, kind of like a two piece bellhousing (similiar setup to most isuzu engines, at least i know the 4H motors have a two piece setup, can't remember what setup the 4Bs have)
    P1030445.JPG
  5. Looks like Turbo Glide makes a kit for the non-electronically controlled Hino Deutro. No pics for confirmation, but if its the 15B-F or 15B-FT, there's your answer for fitting a turbo.

    Rick
  6. Some info on engine configurations for the Hino Dutro here

    Hino Dutro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  7. jabxyz

    jabxyz

    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    Central America and USA
    Roscoe,
    Of the three guys you know who have done the swap:
    1. What trannys did they bolt the 14B up to, H41, H42 or H55f? Was it a straight bolt up with maybe just a change of input shafts or drive shaft lengths or was it a more involved mod?
    2. If you know what was their experience regarding added torque, power on the highway, maintainance and repairs?


    Dougal,
    Which transmission was the 14B bolted to? How was it to drive on the highway? Any recollections on how it did on fuel consumption, i.e. "gas" mileage?

    jbB73, Interesting. I would have thought that the presence of the "T" in the numerical designation meant that it came from the factory turboed. As I said I couldn't find much on these engines and it wouldn't be the first time that Toyota engine designations escaped my understanding. Good to hear that parts availability wouldn't be a problem.
    1. Do you remember what kind of tranny the 15BF or 15BFTs were bolted up to?
    2. The 15B-FTE might raise the related issue, the one that I was looking into originally when I stumbled onto info about these engines. Assuming that your recollection is correct that these engines were made from 99 - 04 and have an electronically controlled pump was this one of the early common rail injection diesels that Denso did for Hino and Toyota in the mid 90's? Do you know if it had pilot fuel injection included or was this a feature that came out after 04?


    Rick,
    Nice to see another mudder who is camping out in Cent Am for a while.:clap: I was just in Costa Rica in December and will probably be back again before the fall (oops:eek: gotta remember that they only have two seasons around here). I have seen alot of Toyota, Hino and Daihatsu trucks and busses in Central America but I have to confess apart from the Coaster busses (notice them because they are newer and cleaner than the rest) haven't kept up with the models or their engines. My question, have you seen either of these engines, 14B or 15B being run in this region, in any configuration, in trucks, busses or cruisers? I saw a reference from Tapage in the thread referenced above that he has a buddy in Panama who is running a 14B in a cruiser and loves it but aside from that I just don't know.

    Again thanks for all of the responses thus far I knew that I couldn't be the only guy thinking like this.:cheers:
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2008
  8. jb BJ73

    jb BJ73

    Messages:
    321
    Location:
    Perth, West Oz
    "jbB73, Interesting. I would have thought that the presence of the "T" in the numerical designation meant that it came from the factory turboed. As I said I couldn't find much on these engines and it wouldn't be the first time that Toyota engine designations escaped my understanding. Good to hear that parts availability wouldn't be a problem.
    1. Do you remember what kind of tranny the 15BF or 15BFTs were bolted up to?
    2. The 15B-FTE might raise the related issue, the one that I was looking into originally when I stumbled onto info about these engines. Assuming that your recollection is correct that these engines were made from 99 - 04 and have an electronically controlled pump was this one of the early common rail injection diesels that Denso did for Hino and Toyota in the mid 90's? Do you know if it had pilot fuel injection included or was this a feature that came out after 04?"

    the T still means it would be factory turboed, just some of the 15Bs never came with them
    1. they would have had they're own trannys in the trucks but the bolt pattern is the same as a h55f/h41 (where it mounts to the engine) and the pilot bearing and clutch should be the same
    2. its not common rail, just similiar electronics to the 1HD-FTE
  9. Dougal

    Dougal

    Messages:
    4,350
    Location:
    Kiwiland
    These were in two toyota dyna's, one a 2 ton model, the other a 3.
    Being non-turbo the torque felt a little lacking and they were quite low geared (over 3000rpm at 100km/h). I've got no idea of fuel consumption as the trucks weren't managed that closely (multiple drivers, no distance logs, anyone could fill them up etc).

    A while back I found a japanese industrial machine which used one of the later B series engines, the fuel consumption figures (grams per kilowatt hour) put it just behind the Isuzu 4BD1T.
    I get 28imp mpg (10km/l) in my rangerover with 4BD1T, you'd be in the low to mid 20's with a 14B/15B in a landcruiser driven like they usually are.
  10. jabxyz

    jabxyz

    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    Central America and USA
    How were they to drive on the highway, sounds like pretty high revs without a turbo. Any idea at all on the gearing for those trucks, 4.11, 4.88, etc?
    Thanks.
  11. Dougal

    Dougal

    Messages:
    4,350
    Location:
    Kiwiland
    It was okay for a truck, but would be quite leisurely in a car/4wd. Acceleration that is good in a light truck is mind numbingly slow in a passenger car.

    This one was 5 speed, the model code is BU147 and 1997 model year, maybe one of the guys who has access to the EPC can find it.

  12. Sorry man, I can't help you much. I'm out on a rough part of the coast where nice road worthy vehicles don't dare to venture! We just don't get to see too many people haulers where I am.


    Anyway, as you probably know, Costa Rica isn't a great place for sourcing used drivetrain parts. There are a few stores on the highway west of Alajuela that have used motors sitting on the floor. They all looked pretty old last time I was there. If you make it back this way, be sure to stop in and check with them.

    Rick
  13. jabxyz

    jabxyz

    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    Central America and USA
    If I could cruise at 100/110 kph or 65/75 mph on the highway that would be ideal. You having driven one at 100kph highway sounds pretty good to me. If I put a 15b-FTE in a personal rig instead of a fleet bus or truck and treat it right and keep it fine tuned it sounds like those cruising speeds aren't unreasonable based on your experience, what do you think?

    Rick,
    I definitely get how some of these countries are not great for sourcing parts although it seems the CR has a much more robust 4x4 scene than El Sal. That being said, I have hope because I found a salvage guy here who imports used JDM motors. He's got two big warehouses of parts, mostly from wrecks but the engines and trannys he brings in from Japan in containers. My goal would be to maintain my venerable B until he comes across the engine which he thought he could do pretty easily looking for a 13BT. Given that the 14BT or 15B-FTE are each more recent and currently in use in trucks and busses, I'm betting that he won't have much trouble. At present I'm more interested in is anyone's experience with these engines and their views on if they would be good for the application (combo highway/city driving and moderate off road) and compatible/ easily adaptable (read bolt up) to my cruiser and my present H41 tranny or the soon to be present H 55f. Thanks:cheers:
  14. Dougal

    Dougal

    Messages:
    4,350
    Location:
    Kiwiland
    A 15b-FTE would easily push a 40 past the speeds you'll be comfortable driving it at.
    90+ MPH so long as it doesn't run out of revs.

    You're talking almost 170hp and 430Nm of torque. The 1HD-FTE had the same torque, a little more power and could push a 100 series to over 180km/h.
  15. jabxyz

    jabxyz

    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    Central America and USA
    :):):):)
    Great news!!! Now can anyone give me some insight into getting this big rascal into my engine bay and bolted to the trannys in question?
    Thanks
    :cheers::cheers::cheers:
  16. I dont know them personally ,2 of them visited this site sometime back. One a had a FJ70 in Bolivia I think and the other was in oz and had a 45 series.
    The other is in a BJ43 and is an Malaysian offroad champ.
    I dont know for sure about the gearbox but I seem to remember they used standard Landcruiser boxes.
    From the sounds of it,the rear of the engine is the same as the 3B.
    They must have used the old stock B bellhousing as the Dyna type are very short.
    There has also been some owners here with 13B non turbo that are a straight bolt up.These are not found in Landcruisers.
    Sorry I dont have more definate answers but we need someone to do a write up:D

    The search function yielded these results inc the Bolivian FJ70
    IH8MUD™ Forums - Search Results
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2008
  17. jabxyz

    jabxyz

    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    Central America and USA
    Roscoe,
    The link you supplied didn't open for me but thanks to your suggestion and info I re-did a search and found these two threads which are I think the ones you were reffering to.
    3F to 14BT in FJ70

    [FONT=&quot]http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/94914-3f-14bt-conversion.html[/FONT]

    In the first one the writer mentions that the 14BT bolts right up to the H55f. I just skimmed the thread and I will read the article and get back. I think the most interesting thing so far is that it seems in the Cent Am region it may not be too difficult to find these engines as they are on the Coaster buses that are imported here. Thanks.
  18. I dont know why thelink no worky. It had about 5 results.

    Yep Coaster buses and Dynas are a plenty down there.

    There is a whole plethora of B engines out there inc a 4B and 5B which is a indirect injection version od the same cc
    Some info here but missing the 11B Toyota B engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  19. jabxyz

    jabxyz

    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    Central America and USA
    Roscoe,
    It looks like I have a choice between two great engines, 14BT or the 15FTE. As jbB73 said in a head to head match up the 15b-FTE has more horsepower, bigger bore, 16 valves and at the end of the day, more torque than the 14B. As you, Dougal, Tappage's trail buddy and the 70 owner from Bolivia all point out the 14BT seems to be a great swap into a cruiser and when mated with the H55f, gives you the ability run as fast as you want on the highway and grunt along mountain trails for hours without breaking a sweat. In the end since neither of these swaps has been done much in a 40 and none as far as I can tell has been written up my choice will probably come down to availability, i.e., what I can get my hands on here. Maybe it is time for me to make a call to the local Toyota dealership and see if they can get either of these new and when and then check my salvage guy and see what he is able to do. :hmm: Either way I'll keep you guys posted and once I get it I'll make sure that I do a write-up. Thanks so much guys for all of your input, there is nothing like Mud:bounce::bounce::bounce:
    John
  20. jabxyz

    jabxyz

    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    Central America and USA
    One more thing...

    What is the benefit of having the electronically controlled pump on the 15b-FTE? There is nothing else on my rig that is electronically or computer controlled.:cheers:

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