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California Smog/Bar Referee

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by Jerzfj40, Mar 22, 2009.

  1. Jerzfj40

    Jerzfj40 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    246
    Location:
    Southern California
    My Rig is a 1977 FJ40 with a 1972 Chevy V8 that was installed by the PO. Apparently , he took it to a BAR Referee many years ago and got the CARB sticker for his conversion. ( photo included)It is classified as a 72 Chevy, so has minimal smog requirements.
    My question is ...Would it be possible to replace my motor with a new crate motor and run TBI being that it IS a replacement motor for what i have now. Would i still be able to smog it under my 72 CARB sticker requirements?
    Any info would be helpful as i need to have this smogged soon anyway.
    Jerry

    Attached Files:

  2. D'Animal

    D'Animal Rescuer of Beagle and Landcruisers Moderator

    Messages:
    20,678
    Location:
    Central California
    How in the world did they get a 1972 past a referee in a 1977 rig? You should have to comply to 1977 regs, not 72.


    Doing a crate motor with EFI would be way easier than what they did.
  3. Lil'John

    Lil'John SILVER Star

    Any engine change from what the ref approved is considered an engine swap and would require you to go back to the ref for swap approval.

    Any smog shop will refuse to touch it if they don't see what is approved.
  4. Pighead

    Pighead Stop calling it an FJ SILVER Star

    Messages:
    7,328
    Location:
    Pigsty, Colorado
    My question too....
    Cash? Drugs?
    Personally, I would never put myself in a position to have another ref look at it. Unless you wanna go full-on legal and get to know your ref real well, run what ya got.
  5. Jerzfj40

    Jerzfj40 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    246
    Location:
    Southern California
    I have owned the Cruiser since 1997 and i know that the PO had it sitting for 5 yrs in his garage, so the conversion must have been done in the early 90's. Maybe it was easiier to do back then.It has passed smog every time since i have owned it, but was considering a new crate TBI or FI swap if possible.
  6. Doug_S

    Doug_S

    Messages:
    880
    Location:
    Olympia, WA
    I would think that if you put a crate motor in and it was identical to the one that you took out, you'd be fine. Or...just rebuild what you have and you'll be golden.
  7. Centermass

    Centermass SILVER Star

    Messages:
    158
    Location:
    Lemoore CA
    Just call the bar and ask them. Ive talked to the referee about federal and state smog requirements they are very helpfull. My understanding is that what ever year the vehicle engine came out of example95 chevy pickup it has to have the exact same smog equipment the the 95 chevy has on it once the conversion is complete. So basically they have to be able to compare it to a specific year to base the smog off of. But to be safe call your local referee and ask him what the rules re for sure.

    Referee Centers Fact Sheet

    DCA/BAR Field Offices
    Answer general consumer questions and complaints and help identify locations of licensed Smog Check stations.
    Bakersfield: 3331 N. Sillect Avenue, (661) 335-7400
    Culver City: 6035 Bristol Parkway, (310) 410-0024
    Fresno: 4152 W. Swift Ave., Suite 104, (559) 445-5015
    Hercules (recently moved from Richmond): 625 Alfred Nobel Drive, Suite A, Hercules, CA, (510) 964-3030
    Placentia: 701 Kimberly Ave., Suite 120, (714) 961-7940
    Riverside: 3737 Main Street, Suite 850, (951) 782-4250
    Sacramento: 10220 Systems Parkway, (916) 255-4200
    San Diego/Oceanside: 16855 W. Bernardo Drive, Suite 112, San Diego, CA 92127 (858) 716-1025
    San Jose: 1361 South Winchester Blvd., Suite 206, (408) 277-1860
    South El Monte: 1180 Durfee Ave., Suite 120, (626) 575-6934
    South San Francisco: 395 Oyster Point, Suite 102, (650) 827-2074
    Valencia: 27202 Turnberry Lane, Suite 250, (661) 702-6600
  8. Kofoed

    Kofoed

    Messages:
    628
    Find a shop with gearheads that can verify the block casting number COULD have come out of a 1977 whatever....
  9. Plowboy

    Plowboy SILVER Star

    I have a 78 with a 1965 283. I had the engine conversion done in 78. At that time the smog requirement in calif required the smog that came with the block. In the early 90's the law changed to the sheet metal or newer. The sticker on your door jam calls for the smog that came on the 72 350. If you change engines, even the same year and model, the referee will require you to have all the smog that came on a 77 engine. I replaced the 283 with a 327 from the same year. It was a factory replacement block, sort of generic. About 5 yrs ago calif changed the door sticker to require a bar code which had all the information in the bar code. I got the TEST ONLY stamp on my renewal and nobody would run the test on the old sticker. I had to go back to the referee for the new style sticker. They ran the engine number, block casting and found it to be a 327 and refused to upgrade the sticker. Gave me a list of all the smog equipment I would need for a 78 chev 350. (327 no longer in production in 78). Nothing would fit since the 327 doesn't have any of the required bolt holes to mount any of the brackets. The ref ran the smog test (it passed the 65 spec) and labeled the 40 a gross poluter. If you can find a shop to test your 77/72, I would have it done and forget about talking to Smog Referees. You'll probably end up in the same red tape and dance they tried to put me through. I cheated and took it Idaho and had it registered there.
  10. cruiserbrett

    cruiserbrett Moderator

    Messages:
    2,352
    Location:
    San Diego
    In agreement with plowboy, Prior to the comprehensive engine swap legislation(probably before the early 90's) you could use any year motor as long as the smog equipment required to be present on the donor motor was there and functional, and then you had to pass smog requirements for the donor year engine. Now its just a hassle to have an earlier engine than sheetmetal.

    my friend has a 76 fj55 and its got a BAR sticker for th 63 283 or what ever sized chevy is in there and its now a pain to smog like plowboy mentioned. even though its legal based on the time the conversion was done he still needs to treat it like he is smogging a truck without the correct emissions b/c no smog shop seems to remember the old laws(IE he has to grease the palms of a friendly smog shop.)
  11. Jerzfj40

    Jerzfj40 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    246
    Location:
    Southern California
    After reading all of your responses, im beginning to think i'll just continue to use the same smog guy until i get nailed on the issue. Then i'll just have to find an earlier year frame and switch everything out.
    Thanks to everyone for all the good feedback!

  12. Centermass

    Centermass SILVER Star

    Messages:
    158
    Location:
    Lemoore CA
    Try giving the BAR a call dont take you vehicle to them. Just tell him you have a 77 with a v-8 with a carb sticker . Ask him what requirements you would have to meet if you wanted to upgrade to TBI. Then you are getting it striaght from the horses mouth. The Fresno Bar ref has been super helpfull to me and some friends. Everything he has told me has been accuratre on my 75 when smog was still required on that year cruiser with a v-8. Most people dont talk to them first then get into trouble.
  13. Lil'John

    Lil'John SILVER Star

    Sort of true... but when I did my swap research in 97, I got a new answer everytime I called them:rolleyes: The only thing they were definitely consistent on was "it must be the complete engine from the donor car".

    And as has been stated in either this post or the other BAR one, if you do a TBI swap, it has to be the complete engine... aka an engine swap. You are not allowed to piece meal an engine swap.

    In theory, by doing the law as an all or nothing approach, it should have simplified doing a swap... they should have gotten less "but can I just swap on this part" type stuff.:rolleyes:
  14. D'Animal

    D'Animal Rescuer of Beagle and Landcruisers Moderator

    Messages:
    20,678
    Location:
    Central California
  15. Theycallmenica

    Theycallmenica

    Messages:
    397
    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    the best way is to find a friendly smog guy and skip going to the state. So you are best to continue using your guy and keep that secret a well guarded secret.

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