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Broken Newfield

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by WolfpackTLC, Aug 5, 2003.

  1. WolfpackTLC

    WolfpackTLC

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    Ok, so the Newfield is completely out, and there are some shop towels and some duct tape serving oil retention duties. What do I have to show for all that? 4 really big pieces of the outer bell of a Newfield, some smaller fragments, a cage stuck on my inner shaft, 5 bearings, and a twisted and sheared outer shaft. Hmm... Oh yeah... I'm less 3 rolls of shop towels, 4 pairs of latex gloves, and I now own a new Craftsman torque wrench ( which doesn't even work well) a nifty set of snap ring pliers, and a set of 1/2" and 3/4" inch sockets. Now I just need something stronger than a Newfield... Smurfields maybe? Any ideas, questions, comments, or dirty jokes... let's hear em!

    J
     
  2. WolfpackTLC

    WolfpackTLC

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    Oh yes, and I'd like to know the consensus on what to do about the front diff when it's missing a birf... I know I need to lock the center diff, but do I lock the front diff as well? Can't reach Christo anymore.. guess his cellphone finally doesn't have coverage on the Rubicon.. Thanks guys!
     
  3. Riley

    Riley

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    Ok here's some newbie questions on this topic -

    Is a Newfield the same as a Birfield? If so it seems weird that this is a "common" thing to be breaking on medium duty trail riding.

    I've got a 1995 80 on the way and I sure hope I won't need to pack a spare newfield/birfield on the trail in case it breaks. I've done light to medium wheeling in my 60 with no problems what-so-ever. Can I expect the same Toyota reliability with my "new" 80? I sure hope so.

    With light / medium work in mub and dirt trails are these really going to break?


    Thanks in advance guys.

    Ben
     
  4. Mr.Bryan

    Mr.Bryan

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    Ben, you wont have any problem. If your running 36" tires on a 5.5" lift and are having fun in the moab or rubicon then thats a diffrent story but if your only doing light to medium trail driving then you wont have to worry about a thing. I'm not sure of the diffrences between a newfeild and a birf but they are essentialy the same thing. Just constructed in a diffrent manner.

    -Bryan
     
  5. Big_Moose

    Big_Moose

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    Ben

    Birfields - factory specifications / annealing spec's.
    Newfields - slightly larger bell/cup of birfield / different annealing specifications making them stronger.
    Longfields - Welded ring around bell / cup (increase strength) and annealed to make them more ductile / less brittle. Occasionally broken in rockcrawling events / competitions.
    Smurfield - Similar to longs, just cheaper, made in by a fellow wheeler in Canada, and reportly no breakage in British Columbia wheeling.

    The Newfields appear to be "brittle" (IMO) under load, i.e. steering at stops / throttled, still think they are a good replacement for most situations. Seems the bell still breaks fairly offen. The longfields have predominantly eliminated the breaking of the cup, and either the cage / star breaks inside the cup or the inner axle breaks / twists off. This makes field repairs much quicker / cleaner!. No reported breaks of the Smurf's.

    Depends on your wheeling - big tires, torque, wheels always turn to limits / stops, jamming / pinning tires under massive bolders / ledges requiring gears / throttle to get out, heavy right foot, etc. - best bet is longfields (and possibly smurfs).

    Newfields & OEM's are really good for 95% of most wheeling situations - Moab, etc.

    Joe
     
  6. PHAEDRUS

    PHAEDRUS

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    Ben,
    first props to warthog for the difference.
    second, yes you have to engage the center cdl switch but there is no need to engage the front differential or the rear differential lock on the veh unless you were still trail wheeling. if you did engage it would just put you in three wheel drive and possibly make the inner shaft damage worse.
    as far as bernies question goes you shouldnt have a problem if it is properly maintained. my 92 had 161k when i rebuilt the front axle the factory spec is to repack the grease in htem avery 80k, if you are buying a cruiser with over 80k you definitely want to service the front axle and if it has been let go a while like mine was by the p/o then have the existing toyota axles remanned.
    for the record I am running 33" tires on my rig and have yet(knocking on wood as we speak) to have a birf problem on the trail but I rebuilt my axle because I knew I would if I didnt bite the bullet and take care of the problem.
    rant beginning to end, need cofeee and jelly donought............
    Dave
     
  7. Junk

    Junk

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    Wolfpack,
    Don't lock the front, just the center diff. Put everything back together, minus the shaft and the birf, but including the rag (wrapped in duct tape). Order and OEM birf and axle shaft and put in as soon as you get them. You can try calling junk yards etc to find some spares, but if they already have 75-90k on them and they weren't maintained, it may end up just being more bad money out.

    HTH
     
  8. landtoy80

    landtoy80

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    Did you call CVunlimited and tell them how great there newfields are? 1-800-868-0057
    kurt
     
  9. semlin

    semlin rocker

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    Benie, if your birf is properly maintained, oem will probably suffice for your use. Most people do not have problems with fj80 birfs if they repack them on time. Smirfields, Newfields, Longfields, Marfields etc.. are in business because 1980's era Toyotas are notorious for breaking their smaller birfs offroad especially when running in rocks on huge lifts/tires. Take a look at the size of Wolfpack's lift/tires and the kind of trails Christo Slee runs on his post in the "Trails" section and their problems start to make more sense.

    Wolfpack, I agree with Junk except that I suspect a wrecker will want to keep the whole front axle together. That was my experience. For the dough, you might be better off with another Newfield but I would go OEM.

    The Smurfield guy is in Nanaimo, BC and from what I can tell he has only done mini-truck birfields to date and has only just started selling "new" smurfields based on aftermarket birfs as distinct from rebuilds. As there is no aftermarket source of 80's birfs in Canada (except for one with no fitting for the abs sensor!!) and OEM are over $600 I suspect he will need a core from you to do an 80 birfield which means you will have to buy one, ship one and wait for it to return, or ask him to buy one for you from the local toyota dealer and smurf it. That was the story with Longfield when I had mine break so to avoid a 3 week delay I ended up getting it rebuilt by a local shop. It also sounds like smurfields are the same as longfields to me.

    The link is www.smurfield.com. For a sense of what the guy is like go to the blackflag4x4 discussion group he has linked at his website and read his posts.
     
  10. landtoy80

    landtoy80

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    I tried the birfields from MAF :mad: The part that the ABS ring goes on was to small. THe ring would fall off. That was last year, maybe they fixed the problem.
    kurt
     
  11. rick_d

    rick_d

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    first, "80 series" factory birfields are waaay larger than:
    smurfs, newfields, marfields, longfields etc. C Slee I guess breaks the cages most often in these. Two japanese manufacturers of the 80 series size, OEM aka "NTN" and "HDK". NTN's cannot be sold (yet) aftermarket. HDK's can be had with and without ABS ring but have been special order in the past (I sold parts until this past spring and could get HDK's with 6-8 week ship time). There may now be an aussie and taiwan substitute but quality is not there (MAF I'll be sells these). Used ones from low mileage wrecks may be OK, but a 200,000 mile donor truck may have issues.

    To me, $200+ for a "better" small birfield is no deal. $125 for longs was, $215 is BS. $249 for newfields was always bogus. Best of luck, but I would run factory size if I were all of you- less parts to clean up when they bust.
     
  12. semlin

    semlin rocker

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    Landtoy, they sell the same one here in Canada through a CV outfit. Not much fun waiting 2 days for it to ship then finding it does not fit.

    Rick, when I talked to Bobbie at Longfield he was applying the same process to an 80 birf if you sent him one. I assume smurfield will do the same and the treatment price is right if you can find an aftermarket 80 birf to use. I also assume Christo is way ahead of us in finding a source for reliable strong aftermarket birfs given the cost of OEM and the woes of newfields.
     
  13. Big_Moose

    Big_Moose

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    Semlin

    When I sent in FJ60 birfs for treatment, Bobby mentioned he would also do the 80 birfs - but was somewhat concerned about there constant use / wear time for the fulltime system.

    Rick

    Are you still selling landcruiser parts, i.e. knuckle kits, etc.

    I also agree with you on the cost issues. Glad I got my longs before the increase. I can't justify sending 80 birfs in for Smurfs / Longs treatment - limited supplies / #6 funds. Its OEM on 80 replacements!

    Joe
     
  14. Junk

    Junk

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    [quote author=landtoy80 link=board=2;threadid=4137;start=0#msg30693 date=1060193752]
    I tried the birfields from MAF :mad: The part that the ABS ring goes on was to small. THe ring would fall off. [/quote]
    LOL Landtoy. No offense but you get the boner award for thinking MAF would get it right :flipoff2: :eek: :D :D :D :D I say that in jest, but MAF sucks big wonka bar.
     
  15. WolfpackTLC

    WolfpackTLC

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    I've got Yota OEM's on the way... CV Unlimited is sending me a new pair of Newfields. I'll keep those in some PVC as spares. <sigh> I just met a guy today in traffic w/ a Land Rover Disco that wanted to go play...
     
  16. sleeoffroad

    sleeoffroad Supporting Vendor

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    [quote author=Warthog link=board=2;threadid=4137;start=0#msg30609 date=1060154255]

    Birfields - factory specifications / annealing spec's.
    Newfields - slightly larger bell/cup of birfield / different annealing specifications making them stronger.
    Longfields - Welded ring around bell / cup (increase strength) and annealed to make them more ductile / less brittle. Occasionally broken in rockcrawling events / competitions.
    Smurfield - Similar to longs, just cheaper, made in by a fellow wheeler in Canada, and reportly no breakage in British Columbia wheeling.

    The Newfields appear to be "brittle" (IMO) under load, i.e. steering at stops / throttled, still think they are a good replacement for most situations. Seems the bell still breaks fairly offen. The longfields have predominantly eliminated the breaking of the cup, and either the cage / star breaks inside the cup or the inner axle breaks / twists off. This makes field repairs much quicker / cleaner!. No reported breaks of the Smurf's.

    [/quote]

    Couple of comments and corrections.

    Newfields - Sold by CV unlimited. Original ones were slightly larger. Some prototypes with larger cage and star (out of 4130) was made and the bell was heat treated.

    Breakage.

    On the first Newfields everything broke, the cage, the bell and the star. On the prototypes the bell broke but the cage was ok.

    On oem ones we normally break the cage only.

    Bobby does treat 80 series birfields. However you have to provide the core. He does not weld a ring on the 80 series one. That is for the smaller mini truck and 60/40 series ones. I am running a set of these now and they have made it through the Rubicon. Time will tell. These would be softer and not sure it is a good match for trucks driven a lot on the pavement.

    Toyota oem's can also be rebuilt. The rebuilt parts are not as strong as the factory ones but in my opinion this is the most cost effective way to service the birfield for normal street and light trail use.
     
  17. sleeoffroad

    sleeoffroad Supporting Vendor

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    [quote author=WolfpackTLC link=board=2;threadid=4137;start=0#msg30731 date=1060207511]
    I've got Yota OEM's on the way... CV Unlimited is sending me a new pair of Newfields. I'll keep those in some PVC as spares. <sigh> I just met a guy today in traffic w/ a Land Rover Disco that wanted to go play...
    [/quote]

    Jason, I am glad they stepped up to the table. However, if you break the oem one, and then install the newfield on the trail, make sure you winch over the spot where you broke the oem one. Otherwise you will be doing it again. :D

    I have no idea why I break them on the trail :D

    [​IMG]

    teaser pic from Rubicon Springs camp ground.
     
  18. Big_Moose

    Big_Moose

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    Christo

    My experience has been with the '40 / '60 series Newfields, which I have broke a couple in minimal stress situations.

    I have a pair of BL's for my '55, and assumed that he put a ring on the 80's also. So all he is doing is heat treating (wonder if he's using C02 or Oil to cool / quench the birfs) the 80's.

    These are in the Short bus, which probably doesn't get driven often / mileage like the School bus. Wish you had another pair to try in the School bus for durability in daily driving.

    How did you like the Rubicon? Did you cruise the aligator pit, soup can, little sluice and my favorite, the old sluice? Any damage to other rigs, body panels, birfs, control arms, etc? What was the average lift / tire combo on the group?

    Joe