Bolt on turbo upgrade now available - 12HT/1HDT and 1HD-FT

Discussion in '60-Series Wagons' started by gbentink, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. gbentink

    gbentink

    Messages:
    765
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Hi, I have been researching turbos for many years now, mucking around with different designs for friends, relatives diesel race trucks, my own stuff and some private clients.

    The 12HT is a great motor but it just doesnt deliver in the sub 2000rpm zone (unless you bore and stroke it to 5 litres, then it does - done that too ;) ).

    Who would like 15-20psi by 1700rpm and being able to hold that to redline?

    Who would like to simply bolt it on, no adaptors etc and looks the same on the outside (it IS different on the inside).

    Who would like ~ 100°C lower EGT's (pre turbo) at crusie 100km/h.

    What about less smoke at all times compared to before?

    And FAR FAR FAR quicker boost response - no comparison at all.

    360 degree thrust bearing for longer high boost life.

    No dyno done yet, but hope to get that too in a week or so.

    The test vehicle (1988 HJ61 manual JDM) has a 3" exhaust and no intercooler. Totally untouched 250,000km engine otherwise. We have been running 15psi for ages and adjusted the fuel up to max etc. It went VERY well before. This has transformed it.

    PM me for information, my first install was done on the weekend and although the calcs said it would work well, I wasnt going to get too excited until I get the final result. Well, it did exactly as expected.
  2. gbentink

    gbentink

    Messages:
    765
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    I should add that an intercooler would bring on full boost by 1500-1600rpm. It is really suprising how quick and grunty this 12HT is. I estimate around 350ftlbs at 17/1800rpm. Will post a dyno soon.

    Also, the 12HT in question is running used cooking oil.... so diesel will bring the boost up a bit earlier but havent tested yet.

    Also posted a dyno on my 1HD-FTE converted LX470 in another thread. Some boost mods only - 132kw @ 4 wheels. Not bad starting point for future mods.
  3. Ducks

    Ducks

    Messages:
    1,892
    Location:
    Tigard, OR
    PM sent.

    :beer: Chad
  4. american psycho

    american psycho

    Messages:
    781
    Location:
    switzerland
    Opened this thread with anticipation and see a load of nothing!

    Why don't you just post up the 'informstion' here and spare everyone the hassle? If you're selling something take this post to the classifieds.
  5. cody c

    cody c SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,650
    Location:
    calgary
    This sounds like the start of one of those "end of the exhaust pipe" mounted turbo sales pitches.
    Better post some pics to prove me wrong.
  6. dousty

    dousty

    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    Agreed. Save us the sales spin (bull****) and just post up the facts please. I am tired of your "should/would/could/belief" posts reguarding 12ht performance (see thread in diesel section). Stop treating us like fools and give us some real information please.
  7. gbentink

    gbentink

    Messages:
    765
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    @ the three amigos

    *Skip to end if you want summary*

    Fair enough, I will get the guys car dynoed. Not every owner actually gets their car dynoed for the sake of numbers. It is important to show when proving something remotely. Only reason was the $150 charge for each dyno. If I was a business then of course getting it done would be mandatory.

    A few will order it and will post comments on results anyway, that is what I am hoping for - independant commentators. Realistically, anyone can dummy up results and post them - how is anyone to know.

    The 12HT performance thread was started at a time when I wanted to go all out on that engine and shared thoughts and calcs. As it was the Mrs prefered the LX470 than the HJ61 + I blew the auto in the HJ61 during testing so went and bought a second LX470 for a project car. So the HJ61 moved on and I sold the engine to a Mate because many of my friends said I was crazy to install it in the LX470 (I planned for it). They were probably right, so I completed the LX470 conversion to 1HDF-FTE and have posted dyno results a few days ago on that for a starting point on that thread.

    Later I helped another friend bore and stroke his 12HT to 4.76L (95mm bore, 112mm stroke). He did what I was going to do and installed it in an 80 series JDM 1990 VX-LTD. He wanted midrange torque over outright power. He had a worked over 1HDT before and this goes alot better than what he had before. He has no interest in spending $150 on a dyno because he is happy.

    Unfortunately that is just the way life goes. You start a project that doesnt get finished and you dont always get hard numbers for different reasons. I am very sure I start many more projects than most, but there are 24h in a day.

    I love numbers more than anyone, but I have to draw the line somewhere. I think it is a fair comment to get the HJ61 with the new turbo installed on the dyno so I will endeavour to do that and state all relevant information and might even video it so you can see smoke etc, see the run on the screen etc.

    Here is a photo of the TD42 that had the big VNT installed with my VNT controller. I have a video of the run of this - 207rwkw @ 3200rpm, 38psi, very little smoke. The photo should give you an idea of some results but dont always publish. I only posted this as proof that some things do get done. I talk alot, but there is some substance.

    *Summary - I'll get the HJ61 dynoed but dont have a before to compare it too. If you know the std results of a 12HT, it should be good enough*




    Patrol 1.jpg
  8. dousty

    dousty

    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    It would be great to get some figures. If you want to sell a performance upgrade, you need to back it up with data.

    I would love some information about the stroked 12HT, that sounds most interesting.
  9. gbentink

    gbentink

    Messages:
    765
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    The stroked 12HT uses a custom 95mm piston and head gasket and the std crank is welded up and offset ground. You need to relieve the block in some spots and also machine some parts of the cam.

    I reccomended my friend to only go from 102 to 112 (4.76L) to play it safe. But now that he has built it, I would go 116 or even 118mm next time. I think 118 gives 5.02L.

    Std rods fine. And, beacuse the crank is welded up, I have not "felt" comfortable with pushing past 1.5 bar boost because of a "belief" that the crank is weaker than stock. Boost comes up much earlier using the same turbo - as is expected.

    Thie engine was all balanced and spins up very nicely - smoother than stock it seems. The owner is happy.
  10. dousty

    dousty

    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    Thanks for that. Why is it a custom head gasket? Where were the pistons made? What compression ration did it have? Are the piston crowns the same as stock?
  11. Tim-HJ61

    Tim-HJ61 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    430
    Location:
    Perth Western Australia
    Hi Guys,

    I own the test bed engine for the turbo upgrade Graeme developed for the 12H-t, and installed it myself with his guidance.

    Some of you may have seen my earlier postings on a variety of issues to do with the 12h-t and used my site here for assistance to make your own improvements.

    I'm no rev head. I MUST maintain my vehicle as a capable off roader as when I tour, we are generally alone in the Aussie outback and have to have a reliable vehicle to get up back again. It's my main daily driver too. It's gotta last me.

    As Graeme has said, I had already made pretty good power increases with the mods I made as per the weblink. Increased fuel, increased turbo pressure and a fat exhaust. I was happy with performance, mostly.

    What I missed was some nice torque to be maintained through the gears. It would boost up at 2000rpm to the max of 15psi and hold that through to 3000rpm for the next gear change. I'd often change gear before that, and the revs would drop down to 1700rpm or thereabouts, which was off boost. Sure I was still getting above factory of 7psi, but I wanted some more boost down at those revs so I wouldn't feel the engine was a slug until the turbo lit up again at 2000prm. Highway cruise was fine - easy driving, it was just through the gears, particularly when loaded or in sand driving, that I could see the need for some gains.

    It was with some reluctance I removed a perfectly good turbo and replaced it with Graemes upgraded CT26 model. After a week, the difference is something I'm still getting used to. Dyno has not yet been done. Driving it around is VERY nice.

    I've achieved what I wanted with more grunt through the gears. We live in a very flat city, and long hills are hard to find. On one trip to get some fresh fruit from the orchards in the hills, I was able to hold 80kmh in 5th gear with EGT's about 100°C less than with the old turbo. ie. normally heading up the Welshpool Road hill, for any locals reading this, I could hold 5th gear at 80kmh with the old turbo, but EGT would rise to 700°C. Now it rises to 600°C and I feel like I could have accelerated if I'd pushed it harder. 80kmh was the speed limit.

    Doing the same hill in 4th gear, I just loped up without a bother, turbo whistling merrily.

    On one run I managed to get the orange overboost light, which triggers at 14.5psi or 1 bar, to come on and the tacho was at 1700rpm. All this happens pretty quickly and I've trying to drive too as well as checking various gauges. I can always get max boost by 1800rpm, have seen it by 1700rpm, just in the rev range I was after. I'll try to get some video of this, taken by someone else!! when I can con one of my kids into coming with me. By boost gauge is not located alongside the tacho, so when I post it, you'll just have to go by the orange light flicking on.

    In summary, what I have noticed. No not noticed - struck by the bleeding obvious!!! -

    • My EGT's are lower. Probably 100°C lower at given points on a regular route. I'm very pleased with this aspect alone. I feel like I'll need to be less concerned about high EGT when towing a loaded camper trailer next trip away.
    • Air flow is higher, so the turbo whistle is more pronounced. I like this.
    • The speed the turbo spins up is remarkable. Clearly faster than the standard CT26, this version whips around to max boost of 18psi really quickly, the boost compensating aneroid opens up the IP rack and dumps a heap more fuel. There is no more smoke because of the high air flow providing enough flow to burn all the extra fuel. Suddenly the end of the road comes up much quicker than expected.
    • the ONLY change I made was to instal this turbo. No fuel supply mods were made as part of this install, that was previous. Boost WAS lifted by 3 psi to ensure the boost compensating aneroid opened correctly and didn't create a resonance.
    • Not really a downside, but to get the most out of this turbo, you need to be prepared to undo your fuel screw and increased boost substantially.

    As Graeme has said, I've running on veggie for over five years. I use bio-diesel as a start up fuel. No idea what the performance would be like on diesel, I guess a little better.

    Downsides.
    • I have an aftermarket exhaust and the waste gate was catching on some welding dags at the flange. Easy fixed with heat and a hammer on the flange, not the turbo.
    • I'm yet to rebuild the lower bracket to hold the turbo up from underneath, the holes don't line up.
    The rest of it was all just bolt on, not surprising, since it's still a CT26 - on steroids. :)

    I hope this helps with ideas for improving this great engine.

    Tim
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011

  12. dousty

    dousty

    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    Sounds interesting. What are the details?
  13. impossible

    impossible

    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    Montana
  14. Ducks

    Ducks

    Messages:
    1,892
    Location:
    Tigard, OR
    So by increasing your fuel, have you noticed a significant decrease in fuel mileage? Your current max boost is 18psi, correct? Great to hear that the EGTs are down so much.

    :beer: Chad
  15. gbentink

    gbentink

    Messages:
    765
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Hi Dousty, not sure what you are referriing to. Turbo or Big bore. I thought I did give details on the turbo in as much as price and availability an peformance and Tim has written up his report. A dyno will be out soon and a few have alreaqdy ordered one so there will be reports from all over the world that I cant control the content of soon enough. I am sure a few will alos dyno there trucks too and post the results.

    I would like to give the info on the big bore but since I hope to build a few now that significant efforts were made to get it happening, I will keep the details to myself.

    As for head gasket - the factory bore is 91mm, the fire rings on the factory gasket dont cover the block when its bored out to 95mm; hence I needed to source a quality custom gasket. I hope to build up the block I have here by the end of the year.

    Cheers, Graeme

  16. dousty

    dousty

    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    Thanks for the info on the big bore Graeme, I am very interested in this option.
  17. Tim-HJ61

    Tim-HJ61 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    430
    Location:
    Perth Western Australia
    Chad

    Not had it long enough to check fuel consumption. Running on veggie oil I don't worry too much about fuel consumption, only when it affects how much I have to carry when on a long trip.

    Boost is really set to 1.5 bar or something around 23psi. My installed gauge only went to 15psi, and I guessed it was 18psi. Bit embarrassed to find it is now 23psi. :)


    T
  18. Ducks

    Ducks

    Messages:
    1,892
    Location:
    Tigard, OR
    Yeah, I want to convert mine to WVO but that might be a little bit down the road yet. Do you have any concerns about longevity of the 12H-T with your boost set at 23psi? My current max boost is 12psi. Thanks.

    :beer: Chad
  19. gbentink

    gbentink

    Messages:
    765
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    If you drive it in the lower rpm and use the increased torque, fuel consumption should reduce and on the highway ~2500rpm, I would be suprised if there was a measuarble change at all.

    But, on boggy sand labouring etc, it will have lower consumption in the 1600-2000 range. Should be same everywhere else.

    I would not be at all concerned about boost in the 20psi range and tim, I thought your boost was 1.5 Bar tops (~ 22psi @ sea level).

    Cheers


  20. Tim-HJ61

    Tim-HJ61 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    430
    Location:
    Perth Western Australia
    My error. 1.5bar is 21.75566 psi. I'll remember that for next time!

    Chad. I've been running at 15psi for several years. No issues. With this new turbo, the engine is breathing so much better, spooling up much lower and faster, I am using 1.5 bar boost not very often. The key thing for me is not the added psi of the turbo, but the EGT which are a lot lower and indicates the engine under LESS load, not more.

    Is anyone aware of a 12h-t blowing up from too much boost alone?

    Tim

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