Bilstein 6112 front/5100 rear with stock air bags? (2 Viewers)

[papertiger]

Just switched to a GX from a 100, and while I like the smaller size and greater power, I'd like to go a bit bigger on tires and lift. Reading through here, there are a lot of great builds that have given me some perspective on what I want. I don't need to run what DanKunz has, but am aiming more for co4wheel's setup or similar. I would like to move to 2.5s in front if possible, however, and am hesitant to totally rip out the rear air springs (since I'm only at 65k and they work well). I also like that they can self-level and that the rate is effectively progressive, and in trying to blend these two ideas, I've come up with the following:

Front-
Bilstein 6112 with Eibach 112-620 front, preassembled from Wheelers

Diff drop from ToyTec

Rear:

Bilstein 5100

Stock air bags with the ride sensor dropped .25 inch from frame (spacer) to get a .75 lift (understand a 3 to 1 effect there)

For reference/general info, looking to run either 255/75/r17 BFG K02 or 265/70/r17 in same.

Anyone have thoughts- I realize that most will say go whole hog with coils in the back, but again, if the air springs work I'd like to retain some of their extra functionality, and they still work great for my truck given the lower mileage. That said, I'm not opposed to coils, and the price is really not any different if it's approached as a proportional increase over my concept here.

 

[mercedeezel]

i think the only negative with the rear set up (tricked air bag) is that the rear might feel be too stiff.

 

[co4wheel]

I am running 265/70/17. With better non oem wheels and more offset you can go bigger easily. I think Hoosier Daddy did what your describing and he has ridden in my GX as well.

 

[papertiger]

Thanks ya'll- co4wheel, I'd like to stick with the stock wheels (had a bad experience with a set of aftermarket track day wheels for an e36 m3 that have scared me off non-oem) and for what I am looking at doing I don't think id need much bigger. Have you had a chance to compare the ride quality in yours to one with tricked air bags?

 

[yackowski]

I only tricked (adjusted the turnbuckles) the rear bags for 1/2" to level mine, but the ride improved in my opinion. I was bottoming out before and now its ever so slightly stiffer without the bottoming out. You'd probably never know I adjusted the bags if I didn't tell you.

Cole

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

I installed 6112s with the coils that are included with them, set to 1.25 inches. (Third slot from the bottom of the shock) I have the 5160s in the rear with the stock airbags. Initially, the 5160s overdamped the rear at stock height, making the ride a bit harsh. I raised the rear a half inch by tricking the bags, thus firming up the bags, and now the spring rate and shock are a better match. The ride is good.

So bottom line for you is that adding firmer shocks like 5100s to the rear might actually work even better with the airbags tricked. There is probably a limit, though, on how high you can go before the ride starts getting too firm.

 

[yackowski]

*I copied co4wheel as well and used the Eibach 112-620 mounted on the lowest 5100 perch and my CV angles are great. There was no need for the dif drop FWIW.

 

[co4wheel]

*I copied co4wheel as well and used the Eibach 112-620 mounted on the lowest 5100 perch and my CV angles are great. There was no need for the dif drop FWIW.

How do you like it?

 

[co4wheel]

Diff drop is not needed.

 

[yackowski]

How do you like it?

I really dig it. The ride isn't harsh at all, but the boaty feeling and sketchy body roll sensation during turns is all but gone!

 

[papertiger]

Thanks for all the info yall- based on yackowski and hoosier's experience, I think that's the best path forward. Now I just need to decide if I want to go with 6112s or save ~$300 and go with 5100s in front- not entirely sure that I can justify the extra expense of the 6112s based on my usage if I am honest about it.

 

[co4wheel]

Hoosiers basically saying the 6112 have stiffer valving then the 5100's. I don't feel the 5100's are underdamped. But stiffer springs then what I am running (like what you need with heavier bumpers/etc) would benefit from the increased dampening for sure. Just depends on what you want in the end.

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

Well, actually, no I wouldn't go as far as saying the 6112 has firmer damping than the 5100. I don't have enough experience with the 5100s to make such a comparison. My main point is that the 5160 is too stiff for the airbags at stock height, and I assume the 5100 in the rear would be too. Raising the rear by hyper-inflating the bags a bit seems to make a much better combination.

Adding the Toytec front coil to the 6112s is a good idea. The front coils that come with the 6112s do seem a little soft to me. They may be a better match for the lighter FJC and 4Runner.

One thing to note: the OME trim packers do not work with the 6112s. They won't fit the shock body.

 

[Bluetribal]

Thanks for all the info yall- based on yackowski and hoosier's experience, I think that's the best path forward. Now I just need to decide if I want to go with 6112s or save ~$300 and go with 5100s in front- not entirely sure that I can justify the extra expense of the 6112s based on my usage if I am honest about it.

I figure you are at $180 difference between the 5100 and the 6112.
Bilstein 5100 - $175
OME Springs - $167 (for example)
Strut assembly on 5100's - $134
Total - $476

Bilstein 6112 - $659 (Currently on sale at Wheelers Offroad)

 

[GXO]

Don't do bilstein...you have been warned

 

[co4wheel]

That's not really fair

 

[GXO]

Show me pictures of iron man, ome, toytec, radflo, or any other brand with collapsed lower mounts. Then we can talk fair vs. statistics

 

[co4wheel]

I think people do things on the cheap with Bilstein. Show me a non-upper spacer lift with regular lift springs that did that. I have not seen a single Bilstein post about what you speak in a proper setup. I know it has happened but the internet tends to blow things way up. Even the guy on the Facebook group the other day had zero concept that his setup caused the problem. He has had broken two sets of Bilsteins but blames them.

 

[The Great Him]

I think people do things on the cheap with Bilstein. Show me a non-upper spacer lift with regular lift springs that did that. I have not seen a single Bilstein post about what you speak in a proper setup. I know it has happened but the internet tends to blow things way up. Even the guy on the Facebook group the other day had zero concept that his setup caused the problem. He has had broken two sets of Bilsteins but blames them.

I have quite a grasp of suspension and how it works... This is not my first vehicle I have built or modified... I have worked on and built everything from moms daily driver to class winning KOH rigs to endurance track cars...

 

[co4wheel]

I have quite a grasp of suspension and how it works... This is not my first vehicle I have built or modified... I have worked on and built everything from moms daily driver to class winning KOH rigs to endurance track cars...

Cool. Don't use spacers above the strut. It makes the strut assembly too long and takes the bump stop on the frame out if the equation and will damage the strut. Said another way. The strut becomes too long and stops suspension travel before it hits the bump stop. Bilsteins are aluminum so they will bend.