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Bed Coating Question?

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by VA.CRUISER, May 26, 2003.

  1. VA.CRUISER

    VA.CRUISER

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    I was wondering if anyone has used a product such as Duplicolor Bed Coating over top of a product like POR-15 for the top coat. I'm using this stuff called Rost Block which seems to be very similar to POR-15 but was thinking of using the coating as the top coat. Any thoughts or suggestions :dunno:
     
  2. BetaBob

    BetaBob

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    Firstly, everything depends on how much corrosion you got happening??? if it's not too bad then go for it , anything is better then nothing. I have not heard of the coating you are talking about.

    If the corrosion is real bad, better talk to the local sand blaster and see what they can do for you. If blasting is in order, use a good zinc primer first, you'll be happy with the protection this gives. This will have to be top coated though.

    Good luck
     
  3. Sparky_Mark

    Sparky_Mark

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    Your question is a difficult one to answer by anyone. Usually, the coating on a surface is designed to be used as a "system". The top coat manufacturer should have a recommended primer (or pre coating) that they have test data on. Your question is really asking about adhesion. There are 2 different kinds - mechanical and chemical. It may be best for me to explain in an example (one I have been through myself with the help of a automotive paint expert that I work with)...

    The coating that I selected for my bed liner was from SEM (not an endorsement), which was a 2 part urethane. The primer I used was a PPG light industrial coating, also a 2 part urethane. I had new metal, so after I etched the mill scale off, I was down to bare metal with no oxidation. The data sheet for the primer highlighted the appropriate thickness and type of gun I should use. More importantly, it had called out the "time to top coat". It was after 1 hour and before 4 days. After 4 days, the surface would have to be scuffed, then reprimed. The bedliner coating also had a "time to recoat" window called out. This is very important for the chemical adhesion. Once urethanes cure, adhesion to any top coat (even if you scuff it up) is compromised.

    So here's the moral of the story. Call Duplicolor and ask them specifically about using their product over Rust Block. Also call Rust Block and ask them specifically about the Duplicolor top coating you plan to use. Also ask them about the "time to top coat window", which is your most important quesiton. Neither will guarantee anything, but if both coatings are of similar chemical makeup (like urethane), then you have a better chance at good adhesion. You may have to consider a conversion coating that will go between the Rust Block and the Duplicolor product.

    My personal opinion - don't rely on Rust Block or POR to solve your problems. Remove all the oxidation that you can (sand blast if possible) before priming and topcoating. Another opinion - 2 part bedliner coatings are far superior than single stage (1 part) bedliner coatings. Spend the money now, unless you want to redo it often. I've attached the data sheet for the primer that I used so you can use it for reference.
    http://www.ppg.com/refinishftpsite/docs/LIC_CRE904_907.PDF

    Prep is everything!! Good luck.
     
  4. VA.CRUISER

    VA.CRUISER

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    Thanks Sparky-Mark
    The autobody supply here carries all of the products you mentioned and maybe it is my best bet to talk to them and see what they recommend. I have talked to them some about and it is where I bought the Rost Block but maybe I need to get in touch with thier supplier. :G

    Thanks,
    Burl
     
  5. Erics75

    Erics75

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    I just used about 1-1/2 gallons of Duplicolor on my Chevy P.U bed. I sprayed Rust Stop on a few places and the Duplicolor bubbled in those spots, It went back down when it dried and now you can't tell but these were small spots so be careful what you put down first because it would ruin it for sure if you were to spray the whole area before applying the Duplicolor. It came out decent but I am going to put Rhino Lining on my new truck, its much tougher and worth the extra money, the Duplicolor is just not nearly as durable.
     
  6. Erics75

    Erics75

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    This is how it came out.
     
  7. wayne_fj40

    wayne_fj40

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    I used Herculiner once all the prep work was done.It turned out really good for a DIY rollon I v'e spilled about ten gallons of gas on it and it didn't bother it a bit.I had the same ? everyone said for DIY go hercaliner so I did and It worked great.Thats my theory :G
     
  8. CruisinGA

    CruisinGA

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    My tub was Rhino-lined by the PO after sandblasting, its really tough and doesn't chip like Line-X, but he didn't apply it thick enough in some places (front drivers floorboard) so its wearing thin there. Rhinolining is hard on your knees though, its got a really rough texture.
     
  9. woodchuck

    woodchuck

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    For what its worth,
    I went through this process last summer. I first used por-15 on my entire bed liner. There were spots of rust through out and I was pleased with the results. I did as directions said, and applied a primer while it was still tacky so I could apply over it. I went with the duplicolor (walmart) roll on kit. Adhesion was terrible. It was great in spots and in others I could scrape it off easily. I ended up grinding the whole mess out, except where I had exceptionally bad rust, and started looking into the other products available. I looked at SEM as mentioned above. &nbsp:Don't compare this to a rhino lining or others. It is cheaper, but not a rubberized chemical resistant coating like the rhino lining. For what its worth, I recommend spending the money for one of the commercially sprayed in liners. They look better, super abrasion and chemical resistance and they are guaranteed.
    I have my rig in the shop now getting a "super liner" sprayed in.
     
  10. Sparky_Mark

    Sparky_Mark

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    Woodchuck has made a point for everyone who is doing research on coating their rig with a "bed liner".

    There are (from what I have seen) 3 different types of systems to choose from: Single stage, 2k (2 component), and high heat high pressure.

    Single stage coatings are the cheapest (under $100) and easiest to apply. Usually rolled on. &nbsp:Dry time is about 12 hours. One example is Herculiner.

    2k coatings use an activator that you mix in proportion to the base component. The automotive refinish market is currently ruled by 2k polyurethanes. These products provide much better flexibility, adhesion, and chemical resistance than the single stage products. Cost is around $100 - $200. Most are suggested to be applied with undercoating (or Body Shutz) equiptment. 2k products have a "pot life" that requires it to be used in a short period of time. &nbsp:Dry time is dependent on pot life and the amount of humidity in the air (the more humidity, the faster the dry time). Examples are SEM and Gator Guard. (Woodchuck: SEM is not a "rubberized coating", and it does provide very good chemical resistance).

    High heat high pressure coatings can only be applied with special equipment. Because this equipment is expensive, you have to go to a "dealer" to have it done. Anyone, however, can be a dealer - you just have to put up the money. These coatings are better than the 2k products for the properties mentioned above. &nbsp:Dry time is almost immediate to a few hours. Because of the equipment, plan on spending at least $300 for this stuff. Examples are Rhino Liner and Line-X.

    Whichever you choose there is one single step that will give you good or bad results - prep work. &nbsp:Delamination is not caused by a faulty product, its caused by poor prep work. I can't emphasize it enough. I learned the hard way and I don't want anyone to go through what I did.

    I considered having someone spray in Line-X, but I don't trust anyone when it comes to prep work. That's the onlly way I could be sure that it was done right. So I guess my advice to anyone considering this type of coating to their floor is: Plan on spending a lot of time doing it yourself (and contact the manufacturer and tell them exactly what you plan to do) OR plan on spending a lot of money. What is your time worth?

    Just my opinion... I hope that others can benefit from my time in research.
     
  11. Erics75

    Erics75

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    I just took my new P.U. into Line-X, it seems to be the best overall, harder than Rhino but still pliable and softer than Tufcote. Over the rail its costing me around $450.00. Rhino was $462.00 and Tufcote was $329.00  wholesale ( I got a brother in law deal ). The Line-X dealer had by far the best service which is what sold me. The Duplicolor went into my Chevy and I wouldn't do it again, now that I've seen the difference.
     
  12. VA.CRUISER

    VA.CRUISER

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    :GRe: Bed Coating Question?

    Thanks to all that replied one thing I forgot to mention is that I'm working on the frame. But it is the same aspect as working on the tub don't have that problem though (Gozzard tub) :G I had talked to rhino line about spraying the frame but don't know if it's a good idea after posting on Pirate :dunno: I can have the frame Rhino lined for $250 any thoughts here about that ?

    Thanks Again,
    Burl
     
  13. wayne_fj40

    wayne_fj40

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    I wouldn't do the frame for the simple reason,when you do mods to it you will need to scape or grind the crap off.Just paint the frame and after each mod just repaint that area and be done .Just my theory :G
     
  14. CruisinGA

    CruisinGA

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    I don't like the idea of rhino-lining the frame. I'm not so sure they would be able to really get inside the frame, and I think that thats too thick. I have two suggestions,
    1) do what Jeff Zepp did-http://jeffzepp.cruiserpages.com/resto/cruiser1.htm
    2) do what my PO did-sandblast thoroughly, use very good primer (he used some industrial epoxy stuff, he owns a sewer/industrial coatings buisness,) and then he just painted over the 4 coats of primer with 2 of flat black auto paint. At least thats what he told me, its very strong, sheds mud well and looks good. He actually did that to the entire underbody. I'm guessing you have a rolling frame to work with here? I like how Jeff got inside the frame with a toilet bowl brush and made sure that was coated well, thats where it really matters, and where I am afraid the Rhino liner people would screw up.
     
  15. Brog

    Brog

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    I wouldn't even think about a spraying a liner on my frame.
    Too many problems and not the application that it is meant for.
    Sandblast it and POR 15 it. There is no better way in my opinion. Unless of course you have access to industrial alternatives.
    I'm gonna Herculine my tub in the next few months.
    $300+ is too steep for a tub lining IMO.
    Brog
     
  16. Erics75

    Erics75

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    What about powder coating your frame? This is what I will probably do, it can be expensive, but if your going to do it then it should done right. The POR-15 sounds like a good product also, and if I'm not mistaken it can be applied over rust. BTW the Line-X came out awesome, they did a first class job. Unlike the other guys, they removed all hardware ( bed bolts, tie downs etc.) before spraying
     
  17. CruisinGA

    CruisinGA

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    I'm not sure how powder coating is applied.  Could they coat the inside of the frame as well? ???
     
  18. IDave

    IDave

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    POR=Paint Over Rust :G