Bad #2 Piston & Cylinder. Now What?

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by jcarter, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. jcarter

    jcarter

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Crestwood, MO
    I posted "rough idle, no power, knocking" about 10 months ago. Got the head off today and the #2 piston/cylinder is bad.
    P1010023 (800x600).jpg

    Obvious question, what next?

    Use:
    Canoe trips, fun, NOT my DD, spare vehicle, toy, keep forever, etc.
    I'm NOT going to put a 350 in it! Want least expensive, but not to the point of unreliable.

    Options as I see them:[0/U]
    1. Take to shop & have engine rebuilt (bore out cylinders, new pistons, plus whatever).
    2. Find a used engine & swap it.
    3. Pull the engine out and try to redo it myself. It took me a long time to get this far, so probably not best solution.

    Opinions would be greatly apprciated. I really miss driving it and want to finish it before it get's cold.

    Thanks,

    Joe
    P1010023 (800x600).jpg
  2. Pin_Head

    Pin_Head

    Messages:
    11,841
    Location:
    OC, CA
    2. Get a good used engine.

    Just out of curiosity, is your EGR working?
  3. jcarter

    jcarter

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Crestwood, MO
    Yes, EGR working.

    You know a good place to find a good used one? I have, but don't care to go through a junk yard. Google?
  4. Frankencruiser

    Frankencruiser

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Corvallis, OR
    What does the head look like? Something definitely fell into that cylinder.

    Plenty of people pull good engines to do swaps on here. Check out the for sale section.
  5. angerhater

    angerhater

    Messages:
    724
    Location:
    Weddington, nc
    yeah..pics of the head.....get another engine
  6. jcarter

    jcarter

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Crestwood, MO
    Here ya go:
    [/ATTACH]

    Pic of #1 & #2, close-up of #2. Notice how "craggy" #2 is. I overheated it about 8 years ago, thermostat stuck, full of kids, loud, didn't notice till temp was pegged HOT.

    Guess bottom of head was burned up. Funny that is was running really good, then sudden loss of power.
    P1010024 (800x600).jpg P1010025 (800x600).jpg
  7. bsmart82

    bsmart82

    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    Texas
    Your easiest option would probably be to swap in a used engine. You could pull it and have a machine shop rebuild, it just depends on how much you want to spend. If it was mine, if there were no deep vertical scratches in the cylinder, and the ptw clearance was in spec, I would drop the oil pan and pull rods/pistons, hone, replace rings and rod bearings, and have the head rebuilt. If the cylinder walls are trashed, the an over bore would be needed. What did the spark plug look like? Excessive detonation could have caused the piston damage.
  8. jdlsantos

    jdlsantos SILVER Star

    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    Austell, GA
    2. Find a used engine & swap it. (by your self)


    good luck
  9. jcarter

    jcarter

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Crestwood, MO
    On Mud I found a 250K engine, Compression 150-160, for $750. I'd like to keep my business here, but that's a lot of miles. Also, I'd redo the head since it's accessible which will cost some more money.

    Also found one from Engineandtransmissionworld.com, 81K miles, compression 175-185, $1750. It's complete, so no head work needed. I think this is best for the money, an extra $1000 for an engine with 100K+ miles of life left. Anyone ever deal with these guys?

    On Monday, I'll call around to get prices on rebuilt of lower end + redo head. I'd do "30 over", as my mechanic neighbor says, new pistons, the works. Does anyone know about how much that runs? I'll bet it's well over $2,000 making the 80K mile one look like best for the $$$.

    Thanks,

    Joe
  10. kirkm76

    kirkm76

    Messages:
    553
    Options

    Well, I put a new short block. in mine. If I remember the short block was a couple grand plus all of the extras (head gasket, bolts, timing chain, etc). Not the cheapest option but it is out there.

    My truck is a daily driver though in addition to pulling a camper all over the place. If it was going to do the duties you described I would have gotten a good used motor and called it good.
  11. jcarter

    jcarter

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Crestwood, MO
    I was talking to a Yoda guy at work. He recommended getting underneath and replacing the piston. Can you get the piston off and replace from under the vehicle? Maybe I could do that for now and save up for an engine later.

    What do you thinK? Is it possible?

  12. jcarter

    jcarter

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Crestwood, MO
    What I'm thinking now is just to replace the pistons, rings, & bearings.

    With 220K miles, do you think the cylinder is that much out that I'd have major issues?

    Since the rings do most of the sealing, wouldn't new rings seal it better than the existing rings?

    I'm not a motor guy, but it seems to make sense to me.
  13. 3fe4me

    3fe4me

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Windy City, USA
    I'm with BSMART on this, especially if it's a spare car/toy and you aren't in a hurry. Get a new piston to replace the trashed one, rings bearings, and get the head rebuilt for sure. 3FE is a big tractor motor, just follow the clearances called for in the FSM or whatever "other" reference you might have and take your time. Only thing you can't replace easily unless you pull down the trans is the rear main seal.
  14. jcarter

    jcarter

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Crestwood, MO
    Replace a piston in 3FE

    Let the fun begin!

    I'm going to replace a piston and didn't find anything on the Mud about it. So, I'll try to write-up as I go. I'm a novice (and slow, be patient) and figure maybe some other novices would like to see this. Also, maybe some experts can give some advice.

    $$$$ step
    Order parts from C-Dan:
    For Cylinder Block
    1. One piston
    2. 6 sets of rings
    3. All bearings I can replace with Crankshaft still installed (need experts here)
    4. Oil pump
    5. Oil pan gasket
    6. Push Rod Cover gasket (leaks bad)
    For head
    1. Head gasket
    2. Water Outlet Assembly gasket
    3. Manifold gasket
    4. Exhaust manifold gasket
    5. Head bolts (maybe? FSM doesn’t say to replace, but should I?)
    6. I’ve already got the valve cover gasket & pcv valve
    Bring head to Mike’s Automotive in St. Louis, MO, $275 to start, up to $500 if lots to replace
    Injectors to Witchhunter

    Work step
    1. Remove oil pan
    2. Remove pistons, mark well, clean (except ole’ #2)
    3. Hone cylinders, just to clean, not too much; & cut crud off top
    4. Remove and replace Crankshaft bearings one at a time
    5. Re-ring & install pistons (new #2 from machine shop with rod)
    6. Replace oil pump
    7. Install oil pan with new gasket (Lower end done)
    8. Install head & all other stuff as well documented on the Mud.
    Hope to start on the oil pan tonight. As usual, recommendations welcome! Remember, this is a first for me!
  15. jcarter

    jcarter

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Crestwood, MO
    Question #1, how do you get the oil pan off? I took all the bolts out, but man that thing is stuck! I pryed out a little gasket in one spot, got above & put a 2x4 on the rock-guard and banged down, yanked, banged pulled, WOW! Tonight, Truck-1, Man-0. Until tomorrow my friend. . .
  16. Tenzig Norgay

    Tenzig Norgay

    Messages:
    587
    Location:
    Southern WI
  17. jcarter

    jcarter

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Crestwood, MO
    or scissor jack & top of jack stand

    That's the craziest thing I ever heard! I guess to get the piston off I need to hop on my right foot while holding my left earlobe with my right hand. . .

    I'll be dad-gummed, it worked! Just went out to bang on it and it's off! See pic of scissor jack & jack stand middle. I think the metal safely spreads the pressure & all the pressure isn't lost in smashing a 2x4. Not to mention the top of the scissor jack (from an old celica) fit nicely in the side of the jack stand.
    P1010030 (800x577).jpg
    P1010030 (800x577).jpg
  18. LC4me

    LC4me

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    Florida
    If you end up going with a used engine..check out LKQ a national salvage/used parts retailer. Very professional. I bought a 4runner engine from them...132K and extremely clean. Wouldn't hesitate to use them again.
  19. jcarter

    jcarter

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Crestwood, MO
    Thanks LC4me, but I'm content to fix my current engine.

    Tomorrow I plan on getting serious, jacking her up, taking off the tie-rod so I can get the oil pan out, and inspecting the lower end.

    Now, easy night. Just researching a complete list of what to do:

    Head shop:
    1. Tell head job shop to plug the "oil galley"
    2. Replace ALL valve guides (OEM parts only)
    Anything else?

    I'll post my list of "while you're there" later for comment.
  20. jcarter

    jcarter

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Crestwood, MO
    Replace piston 3FE - mark rod & cap?

    It's 80 degrees, low humidity, beautiful day for August in St. Louis. Current status, head is off, oil pan is off, 3FE engine still in (and staying hopefully).

    For 220K miles & 20 years, bottom end of engine looks awesome! Hardly any slug in oil pan. Oil pump screen clean. I'm amazed.

    Now for the question. I'm going to remove #2 piston to check it out. FSM says to put matchmarks on rod & cap "to ensure correct reassembly". Is this really necessary? I plan on marking everything properly, the 2 pieces look very flush, I don't understand why the wouldn't reassemble straight.

    Nother question, do I need a fancy punch or will an old screw driver or chisel work?

    Last question, I have a mystery piece I found on the ground while removing the oil pan, dowel, 1" long, 3/8" diameter. I assume I'll find in the FSM what it is, but thought I'd ask.

    Pics coming after battery charges.

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