AltFuel Anyone making "black diesel" (WMO/ATF/hudraulic oil) out there ?? (3 Viewers)

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It works Fine!

After searching the web and reading various forums I decided to filter down some old sump oil I had sitting around. I started with a pure gravity feed through a 1 micron mesh bag - and mixed it with ordinary diesel at ratios up to 70% oil to diesel.
All ratios below 30% show no difference at all. At 50% oil and diesel, the "nacka nacka" noise of the tappets shut up and the engine had marginally better power available in the low rev range (800 to 1100 rpm). At 70% oil in the diesel, I started to blow a little smoke when under power (Such as 3rd gear and up a steep hill). As I had never blown any smoke at all prior - I backed off the mix to 50:50.
I've run about 500 liters through the vehicle so far - and it seems to love it.

So - can we do it? YES

Does it harm our engines? Only if not filtered properly.
The existing oil filters on the vehicles are a bypass type that clean around 80% of everything going past to around 25 micron level. According to the Automobile Standards Association, some 70% of all engine wear is caused by particulate down to 4 micron in size.
Check the links on the forum at:
Freel2.com - View topic - 2-stroke oil and diesel
also:
Bio-Diesel and Alternative Fuels - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
to start tracking the info down for yourself. There certainly is a lot of info if you are willing to do a little research.

Mercedes Benz themselves took a fleet of demonstrator vehicles to China and added 2 stroke motor oil to the fuel at a 200:1 ratio to overcome the damage being done by low sulphur diesel.

As my vehicle has over 530 000 kilometers on the clock - and I love my truck - I want to look after it. This is a good choice in countries where the laws around using diesel alternatives are not structured to win tax dollars. [It is my understanding that folks in USA are risking a form of tax evasion by using the much cheaper marine grade diesel - which is what this is. Home hrade 'heating oil' is oil and diesel -- which also works just fine. It was used here after WWII as an alternative fuel and cost WAY less than commercial diesel.]

I have a donor vehicle that I'll be taking the fuel tank from and installing in my DD as an oil fuel tank. I'll run a centrifugal oil filter to recirculate the oil (direct from my local mechanic) to the tank. I'll use the spare water / sediment filter and fuel lines before an electronic gate valve tapped into the existing lines before my injection pump. Switch over is best done after a few minutes when the engine is warm. I have noticed that the vehicle is very slightly more difficult to start on ratios above 50%. It never gets below freezing here anyway - so pre heat will not be an issue for me.

:steer: Motoring at half the pump price! LOVE IT!
 
Black Diesel

Hey guys.
The reason for the lack of information on this subject is that Black Diesel is an experimental fuel, so facts and figures cannot be officially released.
However, I think that you can learn more from other peoples experiences. I've been researching this for the company I work for for quite some time now, and I agree with OZ. It can be done and there are a lot more people trying to use black diesel in their vehicles and also for power generation.
I've put a blog together that goes into some detail on the production and use of black diesel if thats of any help to anyone?

Here's the link: Alternate Fuel Sources and Contamination
 
black diesel

well hello from england where we pay + 65% duty + 22% vat which at present makes our diesel £1,42 per litre
i have been running my car! dont like to say what it is never know who wants to know on first waste veg oil for 8 years never made biodiesel or used addatives now been running on black diesel for months piss easy to make and free and again just a few cheap addatives
anyone wants to know give me a shout and i will explain
please note this has worked brilliantly for me but there are no promises
regards toby
 
black diesel - WMO

Hi tobysleeper - very interested in your remarks about WMO: can you tell us about the additives that you use, or where to obtain that information, please? Regards, harryo
 
hi folks another brit here ;), been running my vans (ldv convoys 2.5di transit engines) on 100% wvo for 7 yrs now with occasional minor problems. wvo getting a bit pricy now 60-80p a litre, also have been having someone stealing my regular supplies :mad:. been looking for a bit now to produce black diesel for my own consumption, have tried it before with no problems but hate washing my filters out with the black stuff lol, but needs must ;). cya soon


toby where you from ? i'm from lancs. originally w.midlands.
 
WMO is a great way to trash your engine and pollute the environment, it will work... for a while.

It's like feeding manure to cows. Yeah, they'll eat it, but is it really a good idea?

It's amazing what some folks will do to save a buck.

That is an interesting metaphore. !!!

I have read reports where users are claiming to have run it for 40,000 + miles and no problems, It does work better on the IDI's however.
What parts of the engine are trashed besides possibly the inj pump and/or injectors ???

What pollutants are there remaining after a good centrufuging?

WMO is used in a lot of industrial heating applications as well as water heating. Not for home heating. Is this combustion complete by chance, or is it polluting the atmosphere too?

Last question, how much more polluting is wmo than just running the same engine on diesel??

Thanks for your reply.

this kinda sums it up I think.
If your OK with possible damage to "only" the inj. pump and/or injectors and 40K is acceptable service life for a engine do it man. just report.
I like the idea I really do but I cant justify fuel savings with major engine repairs and maintenance.:meh:
 
this forum doesn't get use much. which is why you don't get good answers. 40k for a engine ran of free oil saves me around 6500$ definitely worth it since they are much cheaper then that. that said I am pretty sure rudolf designed the engine to run on peanut oil so it cracks me up when people freak out when we load it up with higher viscosity oils. many with better btu ratings and lubing properties.

Don't mix wmo and wvo you will make sludge. you can mix and or run any other combo I am aware of. also if you live in a cooler climate warm it up for your ip pumps sake as well as coking you injectors. other then thats these are freaking compression ignition engines. so don't trip about it, would you all freak out as bad if we where running ppo, pmo, pho or pure tranny fluid?
 
Nobody is suggesting a diesel engine won't run on a variety of different oils. Of all the options, used motor oil is one of the dirtiest and most polluting. Of course if your attitude is "phuck the rest of the world, I'm saving money" then you've got much bigger problems to deal with, and good luck with that.

Tacoma is way downwind of my family so I don't much care what you do.
 
Nobody is suggesting a diesel engine won't run on a variety of different oils. Of all the options, used motor oil is one of the dirtiest and most polluting. Of course if your attitude is "phuck the rest of the world, I'm saving money" then you've got much bigger problems to deal with, and good luck with that.

Tacoma is way downwind of my family so I don't much care what you do.

Tacoma has bigger problems then diesel engines.

I ask some of my granola friends this Q' and would one day want to know the answer. wmo vs #2 diesel, wmo = more pollutants I dont know this for a fact but I'll agree. But I also know very little wmo get recycled back into oil most of it just gets burned. well thats what I would be doing, and pretty efficiently I would say. So, is it better to not pull one gallon of dino from the ground and burn waste even though it has slightly higher pollutants and its already going to be burned? say I go dino, now I am essentially burning a gallon of dino, say 15% of my oil gets recycled so I am also letting 85% wmo burn somewhere else, maybe slightly more efficiently. Not to mention all the transporting of that wmo from people houses to parts stores, from mechanics/stores to the recyclers. from the recyclers to the burners.

I have no idea... but it does make you wonder. Is burning a waste product better?

I also agree with someone up there, I bet anything if I fill up with wmo and drive my 3b at a modest 55mph down the hwy, its top speed dang near, while getting 22mpg on a waste product, my carbon footprint has to be lower then that big ass lifted truck hall'n arse down the highway at 70mph on gas getting 14mph. In everyway, I could be wrong though.

I dont have the answers though, and I agree with you about the cities, I am not a city boy but I live here. that said most of my driving is getting out of town. As well while I am here I am not just a concrete slap taking up ground water space from the sound, I have a garden that takes up about 1/3 of my tiny property. That said, I am not a granola I swear... well maybe a little.

"I'm not arguing, I would love to know all the facts" :ban:
 
You can centrifuge the old oil to get much of the very small contamination out.

its it has ANY brake fluid in it it will smoke a LOT. get your supplier to put the brake fluid in another container.

Otherwise from what i have seen burns nice and clean. good calorific value too so mpg should be acceptable.
 
Hi,Im new to this site,and im interested in how you run your car on black diesel.
How easy is it to make?
I was going down the wvo route but this looks to be there cheaper and better option.
I cant seem to find anything on the regulations,if any for this type of sustained fuel.

Many thanks

Alan
 
Snowboard; good answer and overall review of the 'sustainable' considerations that are part of a true, comprehensive decision. I've been doing environmental consulting for about 25 plus years with a large part of that around used oil/motor oil: yes, most of it does go for burning as a commercial fuel and that burning is not as 'clean' as a diesel engine. Being a consultant doesn't mean I know it all....so don't get me wrong. NOTE: combustion of diesel or used oil publications/study's are mostly for heavy trucks--not cleaner burning diesel cars/p-u's.
Plus, the refining energy and chemicals not needed--as you said no trucking--so less 'carbon' footprint per gallon/BTU...lot's of good reasons to recycle and get better MPG than a gas rig..

The reality is that we are all biased a bit in our 'green' choices and some of those are valid and others less so--the bottom line is we each have to live with our choices of what is acceptable 'pollution'; often I find the 'greenist granola' isn't a hypocrite to some extent.

Home recycling--doesn't get much better.
 
Hi Snowboard--
No, never met another Mud member yet except TK in Alaska.....

ATF is the best oil to blend/burn due to viscosity and cleaning affect and less carbon to deal with in the cleaning process. Hard to get ATF, most shops have shop heaters here in the northwest and burn their oil for heat.
 
Since I am a tech and take the fluids right from the cars I am going to shift mostly to waste ATF I think. However, it is much fewer and farther between that I get ATF where as I can get as much engine oil as I want every day.
 
Hi,Im new to this site,and im interested in how you run your car on black diesel.
How easy is it to make?
I was going down the wvo route but this looks to be there cheaper and better option.
I cant seem to find anything on the regulations,if any for this type of sustained fuel.

Many thanks

Alan

I would not call running waste motor oil better by any means than WVO. The only reason I ever tried WMO was because I could not find any resturants to get WVO from. A local company have everyone locked down it seems. However, running WMO is easier it seems. I make W85 which is 85% waste oil and 15% unleaded gasoline which has been filtered. If I keep doing this I will get a centrifuge eventually which will add more work to the process.
 
VWLUV--
WVO--here in the NW it was a hot trend to burn veggie oil--but like you said companies came in and the sources are hard to find; also, colder here on average so you need a heater, pre-heater, switch to diesel and 2 tanks--if you ever forget to change over and leave the system overnight it's full of grease and won't start the next day when not 'summer' temps.
Yes--WMO is easier to come by--centrifuge sounds smart once your volume increases to cover the costs.
I'm trying to come up with a mobile filter/pump unit for on the road where I can get good oils and fill the rig in addition to the shop tank/blend/filter system.
Either way--this is a bit of work and bother..but $$ increase at the pump is making it more attractive.

Hows you 2H; broken in yet?
LCDiesel-Oregon
 
He is right about forgetting to switch over, I did it and still got her started though in colder than freezing temperatures a few months ago. That was without the block heater plugged in too, not recommended but our lift pumps are amazing.
I had to hit the glow plugs (manual glow 10.5v) a few times, wait, hit them again and again to warm up the cylinder walls maybe 6-7 times at 8-12 seconds and then she fired right up.
 
WMO is gross

WVO if properly washed is better for you re engine and injection pump then diesel fuel!

The fact of the matter is diesel fuel was invented after the diesel engine! Even used transmission fluid is cleaner then WMO!
 
ATF is the best..just really hard to come by unless you already work in a shop or have a buddy.

It's amazing what Mr. A Diesel used in the first engines...!! interesting reading.
 

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