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Anyone making "black diesel" (WMO/ATF/hudraulic oil) out there ??

Discussion in 'Alternative Fuels...SVO-Biodiesel-etc...' started by Mo Rocks, Oct 12, 2008.

  1. Mo Rocks

    Mo Rocks New Member

    Messages:
    646
    Location:
    Georgia
    I am looking for info on filtering wmo/atf/ hydraulic oil and mixing it with diesel for an alt. fuel/recycled fuel, what ever you want to call this. Bio is getting expensive to get and find around here now.
    Anyone with experience with this out there ??

    Thanks.
  2. BinaryDude

    BinaryDude New Member

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    701
    Location:
    Mobile, AL
    depending on the hydraulic oil it may be svo already. you have to use svo in the food industry... would hate to get petroleum in your cheetos... lol

    that is all i know...
  3. John Galt

    John Galt New Member

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    964
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    Coldest N. America
    WMO is a great way to trash your engine and pollute the environment, it will work... for a while.

    It's like feeding manure to cows. Yeah, they'll eat it, but is it really a good idea?

    It's amazing what some folks will do to save a buck.
  4. Mo Rocks

    Mo Rocks New Member

    Messages:
    646
    Location:
    Georgia
    That is an interesting metaphore. !!!

    I have read reports where users are claiming to have run it for 40,000 + miles and no problems, It does work better on the IDI's however.
    What parts of the engine are trashed besides possibly the inj pump and/or injectors ???

    What pollutants are there remaining after a good centrufuging?

    WMO is used in a lot of industrial heating applications as well as water heating. Not for home heating. Is this combustion complete by chance, or is it polluting the atmosphere too?

    Last question, how much more polluting is wmo than just running the same engine on diesel??

    Thanks for your reply.
  5. John Galt

    John Galt New Member

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    964
    Location:
    Coldest N. America
    A tugboat on a river or an industrial burner specifically designed to burn WMO safely isn't the same as vehicles in a populated city. Pollution kills, the data is irrefutable.

    The toxic effect of any pollutant is controlled by two factors:

    Loading rate: How much pollution over what time.
    and
    Dose response: How sensitive is the organism to pollutant concentration.

    I don't have a problem with it being used in farm equipment where the atmosphere is 'clean' enough to absorb and precipitate the pollution without doing much harm.
    Burning it in a vehicle in a populated area would be the same as slow poisoning our kids.

    Search ScienceDaily
  6. Isotel

    Isotel Moderator

    Messages:
    4,013
    Location:
    Crawlorado.com
    Way to dodge the direct questions, You should go into politics! :p
    :popcorn:
  7. John Galt

    John Galt New Member

    Messages:
    964
    Location:
    Coldest N. America
    ...and if you can't see the answers there's nothing I can do to help you.
    Learn to use Google, don't expect info to be spoon fed.
  8. amaurer

    amaurer SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,337
    Location:
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Don't be obtuse, you answered these two:

    and ignored these:

    If you care about the issue and want to change his mind then share what you know. Sending someone to Google is what I do when I don't know the answers...
  9. John Galt

    John Galt New Member

    Messages:
    964
    Location:
    Coldest N. America
    Nope, no interest whatsoever in changing anyone's mind.
    I have better things to do with my time than try to change people's preconceived ideas.
    Do the research and form your own opinions.
  10. Mo Rocks

    Mo Rocks New Member

    Messages:
    646
    Location:
    Georgia
    First of all I found this site while doing a google search, so I know how to google re: WMO/ATF/ WTF/ETC. Which I have done already.
    There are opinions and info out there like belly buttons....everybody has one.

    I just wanted to poll this audience to see what experience was had by this crowd...THAT's ALL.

    Thanks for your opinion and attitude John, you obviously have one. :clap::clap:
  11. Tofudebeest

    Tofudebeest New Member

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    2,841

  12. Mo Rocks

    Mo Rocks New Member

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    646
    Location:
    Georgia

    Now that is funny !!!
  13. jabxyz

    jabxyz New Member

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    583
    Location:
    Central America and USA
    LMAO OMG dude, too funny. That was just so random
  14. sandcruiser

    sandcruiser New Member

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    3,608
    Location:
    Palo Alto, CA
    seems to me that WMO shouldn't hurt the motor, per se. I mean... there is motor oil in there already. Right?

    But it does seem like it would up the pollution load a lot, and so I don't like it.
    I have run ATF through before, as I was told it would help clean the injectors (and I had to drain my steering system anyway....) A cup or so of ATF in a 1/2 tank of diesel produced absolutely nothing detectable by my eyes/ears/nose. More may have a greater effect.
  15. ThePookieBear

    ThePookieBear New Member

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    869
    Location:
    Wichita, KS.
    Aside from the pollution concerns, they mention on some forums to be ABSOLUTELY certain that you let it settle for some time, (that time period differs...surprise.) And to filter it. Some say as far as like 5 microns. Also, at each filter area, or where it settles, use lots of magnets to get heavy metal out. Thats probably what trashes injection pumps and injectors. If you filter it and get all the metals, and other particles out, I think it would offer quite decent lubricating properties. But... I'm just throwing this stuff out there. You should probably google to be on the safe side. :). Ha ha. Just kidding. (Unless you want to...)
  16. cruiser88

    cruiser88 New Member

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    11,888
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    WV
    Most of us have learned to ignore the honorable John G.
  17. Big Blue 84BJ60

    Big Blue 84BJ60 New Member

    Messages:
    396
    Location:
    brampton ont
    x2 although he does have valid points from time to time

    but with no increase in smoke were is the increase of pollution... and if there is an increase it has to minimal to non detectable
  18. Gold Boy

    Gold Boy New Member

  19. RHINO

    RHINO New Member

    Messages:
    3,758
    Location:
    valley of the sunstroke, AZ
    hey MO,, i have played around with many different fuel scources including some WMO from the wifes car oil change. i let it settle with a big magnet on the bottom, then filter it. with a gallon per tank i didnt notice anything,,, with a few gallons it really started to smell different. it seems to work and drive just fine but i'll stick to very small amounts, if i ever use it again. i dont mind sending my WMO off to be reclaimed as its mostly used by the road company in the burner to keep the tar hot, so at least its being recycled.
  20. There are a few good resources on cleaning WMO for use as a fuel, most of which are the sellers of centrifuge machines. The preparation protocol is: collection, settling period, heating, and centrifuging.

    Using the above process (using moderate flow rates through the centrifuge) will clean contaminants and particulates to sub micron levels, posing absolutely zero work for the vehicles fuel filter.

    The concern about noxious gasses created by combusting black oil is absolute bunk. Consider the nasty cocktail called gasoline: its burned by a gazillion motors in various states of repair condition and is concocted in a labratory to give it specific characteristics. If the person posting objections about the actions of others is concerned about health and affecting the environment, said person is speaking to the wrong crowd.

    My recommendation would be to use no more than 50% black diesel to pump diesel on an older IDI diesel, and up to 10% on a newer IDI. There is no hard data to reference, so experimentation is necessary. I would refrain from feeding a modern, DI motor any WMO. Modern engines will be less tolerant to changes of viscosities, latent heat strengths and burn characteristics. Each motor and driving style will contribute to oil coking in the combustion chambers. A motor used for short trip driving will have a higher incidence for coking, and should be taken into account when deciding the porportioning of WMO to pump fuel.

    Rick

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