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Another newbie ? about a 1994 TLC!

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by TrpD345, Jun 11, 2003.

  1. TrpD345

    TrpD345

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    I have driven Toyota trucks for years and love them. I had a 1993 4X4 that showed remarkable gains from a header, K+N FIPK, and a flowmaster. It not only helped the power alot, but greatly improved my gas milage. I'm just wondering what the mods. are that most people do to the FZJ-80 in these areas. Again, mine will be used as a daily driver (Although I don't drive very much at all, I have a company car) and a hunting rig. I will not be doing any rock crawling or extreme mudding. Just alittle off-roading associated with deer, ducks, and turkeys. Thanks alot!
     
  2. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    The only way to really change the performance of a 1FZ is to force-feed it more air than it can draw on it's own. It is a very highly refined powerplant and is close to as good as you can make it without installing a supercharger or a turbocharger. The only other way to givie it zip that gives good results is to re-gear it, particularly if you are running over-size tires. So, speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?

    &nbsp:Disclaimer: Obviously, it's just my opinion. That and some of these :beer: get you this :urinate: .
     
  3. Rogue

    Rogue

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    You will find that for backroad driving the Cruiser had plenty of power with the 1FZ. For other driving it has plenty of power once you are at your desired speed. It is just getting to that speed that takes awhile.
     
  4. Hltoppr

    Hltoppr SILVER Star

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    Go out and drive a 91-92 with the 3FE and you'll feel pure POWER that'll knock your socks off!

    -H-
     
  5. TrpD345

    TrpD345

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    ???So basically ya'll are saying that I could spend my money better on other mods., rather than the K+N and pipes. If its not a big difference, I'll save the money. I haven't bought the LC yet. It is at a dealership. It has 168k on it. The interior is flawless! Leather seats with no cracks or tears. The carpet is the same way. I was amazed at how new the inside of the vehicle looked with 168k on it. It also has factory lockers. The exterior is great shape also. I can tell that it has never been off road. It was originally owned by a lady and then she traded it in. I spoke with the second owner and he said the only reason that he traded it in was to get a newer one for his wife. He said that he never had any probs. and that he kept the oil changed. Now the bad part! When I test drove it I could hear the clicking in the axles when I turned either way. It didn't do it all the time, just about half of the time. I told the dealer about the noise and the probs. with the front axles (which I learned about on here....Thanks!) and he said that he would have them fixed. He sent it to a garage and the Mech. said that both needed to be repaired. They had the axles re-manufactured, is this bad? The only other thing that I could find wrong was that the rear dif. would not lock. The front would, but not the rear. The dealer just called and said that the motor? not the actuator was bad and that they were ordering the replacement motor for it from Toyota. He said that the motor alone would cost about $500. The dealer is picking up these costs and I have not put any money down on the vehicle. He assured me that the price would not go up! What are your opinions on the this? They are asking $10,500. Thanks!
     
  6. moralien

    moralien

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    Man not to piss on your parade but that truck sounds a little scary. From what I'm reading the truck is not at a Toy dealer? Also if the PO just kept oil in it, there is a lot of maintenance that has been neglected for at least 100,000 miles. It could be a really good deal but it could also turn around and bite you in the ass with a lot of hidden costs.

    If the birfs are being remanufactured they are drilling out the bell and replacing all the innards with oversized bits. This alone would freak me out if a dealer would do this. It’s more common on rebuilding small CV’s . Not really something I would want to do to a one ton axle. Not that it will not work but TLC’s are best left to people that know what they are doing.

    If the truck is at a reputable Toyota dealer I would not hesitate to jump on that rig, assuming there is no rust and it is as clean as you say it is. But to me when they are telling you that they will fix all these problems at no charge I would be leery. Just make sure they don’t throw that truck back together with bubblegum and bailing wire just to sell it.
     
  7. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    go put some money down!
     
  8. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    TrpD345,

    >> It also has factory lockers. <<

    This is very good for you. If you weren't needing these then you wouldn't be here and would have little interest in listening to a bunch of 80 fanatics here on ih8mud.

    >> They had the axles re-manufactured, is this bad? <<

    This is not bad. I'm pretty sure your dealer was using layman's terms for having the birfields repacked and maybe having them replaced. I've only heard of one person on this list that had bad axles and that was from lack of maintenance. The axles were grooved at the inner oil seal shoulder and were replaced in the same general timeframe as the birfields.

    >> the rear dif. would not lock. <<
    >> He said that the motor alone would cost about $500. <<

    The experience for most of us has been that the engaging motors stop working from lack of use (I call it diff-lock atrophy.)  Usually they will revive themselves with frequent use. Once they are all working again you should excercise them once a month. See the archives on this forum for a detailed procedure to verify they are working correctly. If your dealer is going to replace the motor then that's one less thing to worry about down the road. Sometimes the diff-lock atrophy is a motor that is rusted up; depends on where the truck lived for the past 8 years.

    >> They are asking $10,500. <<

    We are talking about a 94 FZJ80, right? Sounds like a fair asking price to me. If you can get it for $9,000 then it would be even better. There are several prior discussions on "buying an 80 series" so spend some time here and learn from the recent discussions on these topics.

    Good Luck,
    -B-
     
  9. semlin

    semlin rocker

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    OK, I'll be the doubting Thomas...

    Is this a Toyota dealership or a used car dealer?

    Axle jobs can be done wrong or not enough done. &nbsp:Done right, they retail for about $1,000 not counting rebult birfields which may be what he is talking about since there is not much else to remanufacture. For a dealer selling a truck at that price I would suspect shortcuts even with a good dealer reputation. Get them to give you an invoice writing down exactly what they did to the axles, what parts were replaced/rebuilt including seals and bearings and post their explanation and parts list here. An accurate parts list is critical. We will then have questions for you for the mechanic.

    For the lockers, I am surprised they are replacing the motor. Those things tends to loosen up if never used but it takes time and you need to be on gravel and weaving a little. Most likely they just took it out on some gravel and got it loose. I'm not sure I would believe them unless I saw an invoice for the motor.

    If the seats are perfect after 168k that is pretty surprising. Somebody sat in the driver's seat for 168k after all and the leather in these things does not usually hold up. If it seems too good to be true, be careful. Have you Carfaxed it to see if it is a rebuild /salvage?

    For $10,500 it depends on the year and where in the country you are, but with that mileage and lockers I'd say a fair deal, and maybe pretty good if they just redid your axles properly.

    Main mechanical issue with the truck at that mileage is head gasket. Check radiator to see how clean (they gunk up which leads to overheating). Check around the head to see if any crusty build up or to see if recently shampooed. Take a look at the overflow tank. &nbsp:Does it need fluid?

    BTW nothing wrong with adding a K&N filter, but I would not try to squeeze any more hp out of a truck with that mileage, and I would get a compression check. Your motor is just past middle aged and should not be raced or thrashed. Treat right, it should be good to 300k.
     
  10. TrpD345

    TrpD345

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    Thanks for all the help! The LC is at a used car dealership. I have spole to the mech. myself that is repairing the axles. He says that the vehicle is mechanicaly sound and that the axle prob. came from time and no keeping them lubed. I feel that the dealer is being straight-forward with me. I told im that I had spoke with the mech. and aslo had a friend of mine look the vehicle over. The car-fax report was clean. I work for the Highway Patrol in NC, so I was able to check the vin and get the names of the prior owners and have spoke to both. They both assurred me that the vehicle had not been abused. My only concern was really the axle deal. I'm not familiar with them, so it was hard for me to understand. The mech. told me that they had been run almost dry and that was what was causing the popping. He said they were re-manning the axles. I asked him if that would cause any further damage to any other parts of the front end and he said that everything else looked fine? Can someone explain or point me in the right direction to read about the front ends/axles and how they operate. I have read several things about birfs.? PLease explain this also. Sorry for the newbie ?'s. Just trying to learn as much as I can. Thanks!
     
  11. semlin

    semlin rocker

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    It sounds like the mechanic is talking about the birfields going dry. If they need to be remanufactured it is because they are dry enough to have done damage. As a non-wrench my explanation is that a birfield is the type of cv joint used on toyota trucks (help me out here guys because I am flying without a net :dunno:). I am told that going dry is "normal" for a birfield on an 80 because there is no way to properly replace the grease in them (there is a place to add it in the knuckle but it does not reach everything)- over time you lose axle grease through the leaking outer axle seal and failure of the inner seal allowing migration into gear oil in the diff. Inevitably you have to repack grease in the axles and replace the seals sometime after 100,000 miles or else your axles go dry. Most people do it as preventative maintenance about 100-130k once they see the outer axle seals start to go.

    I currently run on one rebuilt birfield that ran completely dry at 125,000 miles. Not the end of the world but as Rogue notes, not perfect either.

    Some food for thought:

    The main question is whether he will repack/replace the wheel and kingpin bearings and both the inner and outer axle seals at the same time since this is expensive preventative maintenance likely coming due on your truck and he has already incurred a lot of the labour required to do it. If you are buying the truck and they have the birfs out right now you should have all of this work done even if some is out of your own pocket. Make sure you replace the bearings and make sure the seals especially are oem.

    Another thing to think about is that Birfields can break in the bush, especially from turning while the lockers are on. You can buy specially heat/cold treated hardened "newfield" or "longfield" birfields to fit your truck. If you plan to buy this truck and go offroad you might want to consider seizing the chance to go to newfields while they are out of the truck for free, even if you have to pay the difference. Although some think they are overkill, I don't seriously off road my truck but I would do it if I had the opportunity. The cost is not that significant compared to a normal rebuild. Try sleeoffroad.com for info and prices. You might be able to get them locally. Maybe Junk knows if he is reading this. Junk likely needs to score brownie points with the NJ HWP :G

    There are several posts here explaining this stuff pretty well. Just search on birfields.
     
  12. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    TrpD345,

    The front axle on the 80 series land cruiser (and all prior LC's) is a solid front axle. At each end of the axle there is a steering knuckle with a Constant Velocity joint on each stub axle. Toyota calls these CV's a birfield joint. Toyota recommends that the birfield joints be repacked with moly grease every 60,000 miles. As semlin mentioned, some people go longer, but Toyota recommends this service every 60,000 miles!

    Take a look at Jim_Phillips' write up in the technical section of this forum. Follow all the links and look at all the pictures. You'll begin to understand what the birfield joint looks like and you'll understand why it needs lubrication.

    If you have any "influence" over the mechanic that is doing the job, then politely ask him to be sure to replace the inner axle oil seal and, at a minimum, to inspect the knuckle bearings for wear. I'm sure he will repack the wheel bearings as they almost always do that. If you were doing the axle service yourself, I would recommend replacing the knuckle bearings mainly because they are so easy to do when you are
    in there.

    See if you can get some more detail on the "reman" of the birfield. He is probably inspecting it and repacking with moly. If so, this is OK if you can trust that he would let someone know if the birfield had excessive wear. I tend to think that most people want to do a good job and will be straight with you, especially if they know you carry a gun to work. :G

    -B-
     
  13. Jim_Phillips

    Jim_Phillips

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    I think everything has been said. I can only add my experience of fitting a K&N filter. I haven't noticed any improvement in performance or MPG. However, what you do get is the beautiful sound of air rushing through it when you accelerate hard..

    Jim :beer: