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AC Compressor front seal leak?

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by azTony, Jan 25, 2010.

  1. azTony

    azTony SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,221
    Location:
    Arizona
    My AC was working just fine to the point where I could not run it at maximum in Ariozna, it would just freeze you out of there.

    I went to replace the oil pump cover gasket along with the front seal and other things. During this I happened to bump ever so slightly the line from the compressor to the condensor and it started hissing. I twisted the rubber on the line and it was worse, it twisted it the other way and it stopped. So I replaced that line which completely drained the system. I took it to the stealership this morning (could not believe they were cheaper using the TLCA discount) and they just called me and said my front seal on the compressor is leaking badly. I can not believe this just went bad suddenly. I asked about how much to replace the seal and they said basically you have to replace the entire compressor. I asked how they know it is leaking and they say they can see it all over which the freon is what was leaking all over and it did make a mess.

    Has anyone had this front seal leak suddenly to where it is wasted? I told them I will come pick it up because I am not buying a compressor from them.

    My money pit, gotta love the PO. :mad:
  2. 1972FJ55

    1972FJ55 New Member

    Messages:
    697
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Hi Tony,
    That sucks! It's rare that a front seal would just suddenly let go-but it is posible. Here's a couple options: 1) replace the front seal on your existing compressor. 2) replace the compressor with a new one.

    Replacing the front seal isn't real hard and the seal itself costs $27.15 and the body seal kit is #8.96
    A friend did these video's and they'll give you a good idea of what's involved.

    YouTube - Denso 10PA Series Compressor Reseal Part 1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch? bv=MangGmPZc6g&feature=related

    For reference, a new Denso compressor with the clutch is $259.

    Hope this helps,
    Rex
  3. azTony

    azTony SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,221
    Location:
    Arizona
    See THAT is what ticked me about the dealer. I asked about the seal replacement and they said you can not do that replacement, you would have to replace the compressor. I told them not to do anything and I will pick it up.

    You would not happen to have the part numbers to the seal and seal kit? I will order these and do it myself.

    This will be the second time you save me money (the AC hose repair being the first) so I need to get down to Tucson and buy you a beer!! :beer:
  4. 1972FJ55

    1972FJ55 New Member

    Messages:
    697
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Glad I could help. Front seal is a Santech # MT2147 and the body seal kit is Omega # 21-24649. For shipping, they fit in one of the $4.95 USPS express envelopes.
    :beer: is good!
  5. azTony

    azTony SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,221
    Location:
    Arizona
    So I get home and after I installed one of my new sliders from Metal Tech before it got dark and then I looked at the compressor. The only thing I see is the freon that leaked everywhere. The system was full and it went all over when it drained so yeah, it is wet there.

    How do I know for sure if the front seal is leaking? I do not want to dive into a job just because some stealership dude tried selling me a compressor. I dried it off real good but this is not my DD so it is not like I can keep an eye on it. Is there any way I can tell if it needs to be replaced?
  6. 1972FJ55

    1972FJ55 New Member

    Messages:
    697
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    What you're seeing is the refrigerant oil that came out with the freon. For there to be that much oil, the leak should be really big. You could put in a little refrigerant and with a leak that big, you would hear it escaping. If you don't hear anything, spray a soapy water solution on the front of the compressor body and the clutch, and look for bubbles. If there's still nothing, rotate the clutch hub and see if anything changes. If you hear the hiss of escaping refrigerant, or see bubbles, you'll need to replace the seal.
  7. azTony

    azTony SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,221
    Location:
    Arizona
    1972FJ55... PM sent
  8. 1972FJ55

    1972FJ55 New Member

    Messages:
    697
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    PM returned
  9. azTony

    azTony SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,221
    Location:
    Arizona
    23 in lbs? Wow those bolts were a lot tighter when I took them off. I do not have the torque spec for the top 4 bolts on the cover where the lines connect to. Do you have them? I also had 2 smaller O rings left over that came with the front seal kit, do you know where they go?
  10. 1972FJ55

    1972FJ55 New Member

    Messages:
    697
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    I re-watched Bob's video again, and I think that it has to be 23 foot/lbs not inch/lbs. 23 in/lbs is only
    2 ft/lbs and there's no way that is enough torque to hold the case together. I'd use 15 ft/lbs on the four cover plate bolts. Those kits often have extra o-rings, so don't be suprised if there's some left over. You might check to see if they fit the hoses where they attach to the cover plate.
  11. TX Cruiser

    TX Cruiser New Member

    Messages:
    620
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    As Rex said, that's most likely where the o-rings go, but sometimes they send too many o-rings. If you removed the manifold plate on top of the compressor, then you didn't mess with the two o-rings where the lines connect.

    Nothing against you, Rex, but there is no way I'd recommend buying a new Denso compressor to anyone, especially a 10s series. In fact, I've told customers I will not sell them one b/c I do not trust the reliability, nor want the liability. Quality went downhill at Denso, and if was NOS 10P series, I'd worry about dried out seals.

    Luckily there are places such as the aforementioned Santech, and Omega (how is that lady still in business??) that can hook us up.

    I guess they changed their numbers at Santech, part #K20-3115 is the shaft seal kit I used to seal 6P148's, which is the compressor for the FJ60. This kit also seals the 10P and 10PA series compressors, and probably the 6E171's, but I can't remember for sure. Use emery cloth or very fine sand paper to smooth the rough spots on the shaft or you'll be doing it again. Lightly coat the parts with oil prior to installation.

    IMHO, the 10P series compressors are the best ever manufactured, we are lucky.

    Just watched the videos, he broke the cardinal rule in rebuilding compressors. You can see where the old seal rode on the shaft, he didn't pay any attention and neglected to clean it up. He might have a leaker on his hands.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010

  12. azTony

    azTony SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,221
    Location:
    Arizona
    My reseal is complete but the torque issue kept me from finishing it.

    The O rings are much larger that the 2 lines that were disconnected and I did not see anything inside that was even close to them. They are still on the work bench.

    There was absolutely nothing wrong with mine when I disassembled it. The seals all felt fine except for the front seal, it was not leaking but the rubber would have failed in the future.

    I figured all the other seals on the rig I have replaced needed it and since the stealership made an issue about it, I would replace it and give me the peace of mind. After all out here in Arizona, I NEED my AC to perform for me.
  13. azTony

    azTony SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,221
    Location:
    Arizona
    So Iam I supposed to put more oil in the compressor before I install it? There was a lot of oil in there when I opened it and I am ignorant to what they do when they "charge" an AC system. Do they check the oil or is that something I should do at this point?
  14. TX Cruiser

    TX Cruiser New Member

    Messages:
    620
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    It's basically a guessing game. How much went in when, how much now... You have to measure what was in the compressor before the system was worked on. The measured amount would give an approximate answer.

    The entire system is but 6-7 ounces total.

    Generally, when they (shops) check the system, they add about 2 oz. of oil, a good shop will give you a read on the pressures, and do nothing until you approve. There's no telling how much oil you slung out of the front seal.

    With that said, put 3 oz of PAG 46 oil in the compressor and charge it up with 1.90lbs of R134a.
  15. azTony

    azTony SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,221
    Location:
    Arizona
    The front seal was fine when I got in there but I did this for peace of mind.

    1972FJ55 called me back and we discussed it over the phone. I will make an appointment tomorrow at the stealership and take it to get recharged. I am still surprised I can not find a cheaper place to charge it but they are the lowest.

    The video was very helpful but the torque spec was wrong and he did not give specs for the 4 bolts for the top plate. The video said 23 inch lbs and it should have been 23 ft lbs and the 4 bolts for the cover plate are 15 ft lbs. The FSM shows 12.3 ft lbs for the 2 lines that connect to the top plate which seems low but I torqued them to the spec. It was not a bad job and gives me peace of mind as to what I have in there without spending the $500 the stealership for a new one put in.

    Thanks for the help and parts Rex :beer:

    If anyone wants to do this I can send the special tool for the seal to them if they send it back when they are done.
  16. TX Cruiser

    TX Cruiser New Member

    Messages:
    620
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Good job. Hope it doesn't leak. Torque specs are a laughing matter, sequence is not.
  17. 1972FJ55

    1972FJ55 New Member

    Messages:
    697
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Hi Tony,
    Are the ports on your compressor threaded? For R12, they should be. My books lists R12 up thru the '93 model year. If the dealer put in R134, that's a problem, as the oil was for R12. The R134 ports are larger and don't have threads-see pic below.

    Attached Files:

  18. azTony

    azTony SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,221
    Location:
    Arizona
    R12 is what I have. Correct me if I am wrong but you can not put R134 into R12. I am not sure why it was listed that way on my paperwork from the stealership.
  19. 1972FJ55

    1972FJ55 New Member

    Messages:
    697
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    You are correct-you can't just put R134 in a R12 system. I'd check with the stealership and clarify exactly what they put in. If they did put in R134, they need to recover it and put in R12. The mineral oil isn't carried by R134, so basically the system will lack lubrication, possibly shortening its life expectancy.
  20. mohamLC

    mohamLC Regular Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Jordan
    R134 in a R12 system

    I have an 1988 landcruiser with R12 system and three years ago I put in R134 with the special compressor oil and have not replaced any ac parts and been running this way for three years now. But I have to say it cooled better with the R12 .So i guess the point is R134 in place of R12 worked for me without replacing any ac parts.

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