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77 fj40 distributor swap with an 84 fj60 dizzy

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by mwsaling, Jan 20, 2009.

  1. mwsaling

    mwsaling Regular Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    SLC, UT
    Hello all:

    I have read a lot off of here so far and I still want to make sure that I am going to do it right. I have gathered the dizzy from the 84 fj60, the ignitor - coil unit, and the side cover with the dent. I got as much wiring as possible (I was surprised so see so much vacuum hoses on this dizzy). There is one on top, three on the side of this dizzy, off the vacuum port (are they all for the advance?). Where do they all go, my 77 has vacuum tubing hooked up to it but is it the right kind of advance for this year (77). I will try to upload pics for everyone to see.

    I also have some questions with the ignitor - coil unit. I have a flamethrower coil unit from Marks Offroad (I tried to put in a magnetic relay instead of the point relay and got too comlicated when I could not find the model number off the Jacobs Computer Ignition aftermarket unit so the wiring is confusing, I put the points back in and now it won't work so that is why I am here at this point.) It is a 1.5 ohm unit I believe and want to use it in this application, was the old coil from the 84, stock unit coil, a 1.5 ohm?

    I will try to figure out the wiring too, seems like it should go easy but when I look at all the wiring I still have a question or two. I know I need to hook up the black wire/yellow stripe to the ignition power, there was another wire hooked on to this wire that went to a small black box with a small triangle on it with the numbers 90980-04038 then it had 250/0.47 E. This was grounded to the body, it had another wire coming out of it that was black that grounded to the body also. I guess this is the part that keeps the unit from frying when/if you leave the key on. Another wire came off of the negative terminal from the coil, have no idea what this is. Last but not least is there is a wire coming out of the coil that goes to a green connector (goes in white and comes out of the green connector black), if I am not mistaken is this for the tach. or what is this for and where does it go if I am wrong. Everything else looks good as soon as I take out the Jacobs (I will give this away if anyone wants it, I don't think I fried it).

    I have read coolerman's stuff and still had these questions.

    I know this is long but what I have noticed is that the more detailed you get on MUD you get a better answer (eventually). Everyone seems to be very helpful and insightful. I am happy to get this running again and my wife is very happy to get this out of her way.

    Attached Files:

  2. mwsaling

    mwsaling Regular Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    SLC, UT
    84 Dizzy and more...

    Hopefully this will load the 84 dizzy, my carb, and my 77 rig.

    Attached Files:

  3. dmaddox

    dmaddox New Member

    Messages:
    1,579
    Location:
    USA
    first off, why the swap? 77's used fully electronic distribution of spark. But, if you have the distributor, ignitor and side cover - just plug it all in. Send the vacuum from the lower passenger side of the carb for advance, and plug off what you dont need or that is not feeding a VSV. It is an amazingly easy install too - thing is unless your current system is shot - there really is no difference; hence the question about this change in the first place.

    Oh well - good luck- sounds like your headed in the right direction!

    See ya!
  4. mwsaling

    mwsaling Regular Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    SLC, UT
    First of all when I was looking into improving my rig I wanted to make it more reliable in all conditions. Second the point system on my rig ins't as efficient at higher rpms, Mark from Mark's Offroad said the vibration can (not always) make the point system more inefficient. The nail in the coffin for me (other than my wife saying I need to move it so she can use the garage) was the post that had this in it from Jim C.

    From Jim C.

    81-87 distributor body was redesigned to use a larger cap. The larger cap is less prone to cross arcing inside.
    It's also less prone to arcing down the outside in wet conditions. Same dual diaphragm advance introduced in '79.


    The 81-87 distributor is a work of art. The shaft spins on sealed ball bearings, the breaker plate advances on a proprietary large ball bearing ring, the weights pivot on Teflon inserts, the distributor is sealed against dirt & water contamination via O-Rings, The cap provides for a source of fresh, clean air when connected correctly.
    These late model distributors don't fail. The FJ60 distributors will run a long time. The only problems they develop is a leaky vac advancer and the stop pin bushing ** can wear.

    The 81-87 ignitor does have variable dwell (like the newest Pertronix) and has self protect to keep from frying itself if the key is left on (like the newest Pertronix).

    The 81-87 ignition is uber reliable because the electronics are not all packed into the hot, vibrating dizzy. The finned aluminum heat sink seems to be of benefit also.

    Sounds like if you used the mini-truck coil/ignitor combo and the FJ60 dizzy you would have the neatest appearing setup with great reliability.


    So if this is not enough then I don't know what is. I got this stuff off of an 84 rig that was being parted out for 150, well worth the money I figure, and it's Toyota.

    Mitch
  5. Coolerman

    Coolerman SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,730
    Location:
    Paint Lick, KY
    1978 was when Toyota went to the full electronic dizzy. The 1977 was however, a VERY good points distributor.

    The two nipples on the TOP of the FJ60 dizzy cap are for venting the cap. The smaller port should go to a distributor filter assembly that will be mounted on the inside of the firewall, and poke through into the engine bay. The larger port goes to a VCV that is usually attached to the bottom side of the air filter housing on the passenger side.The way it works is this: The air cleaner connection has a slight vacuum on it. This pulls fresh air through the filter on the other line, through the dizzy, getting rid of moisture, ozone, and any crankcase fumes that may have worked their way in, and into the carb.

    Of the two vacuum advance diaphragm ports, only the inner one is used. Cap off the outer one, it was/is for high altitude compensation.

    Next I'll try to answer your electrical questions... Give me a few ....
  6. Copenhagen1

    Copenhagen1 1000+ Club SILVER Star

    Messages:
    1,081
    Location:
    East Texas
    Coolerman...I hope this is not a hijack... I have exactly the same setup. 1977 2F with factory ignition. I have also read the JimC quote listed here by mwsaling. I have a 1984 ignition located that will not cost me anything. I have just not taken possession yet. My question is, would you make the switch? Or would you just use the 77 as is? Or would you do pertronix? I know I have read pinheads thoughts on the pertronixs and it didn't sound like he was very sold on them.

    After seeing what you have done to yours, I value your opinion.

    Copenhagen1
  7. Coolerman

    Coolerman SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,730
    Location:
    Paint Lick, KY
    As has been mentioned many times before the FJ60 system is a very good distributor system.

    However to work properly with the early F engines or de-smogged 2F engines the dizzy needs to be re-curved. You lucked out with the 77's! The carb should already have the correct ported vacuum connection and won't have to be drilled for one. Jim C. can do the re-curve for around $100.00 (Last years price.)

    So in answer to your question, yes I would do the FJ60 ignition upgrade as long as the dizzy was re-curved to take full advantage of it. Other wise I would continue to run the 77 dizzy as is.
  8. mwsaling

    mwsaling Regular Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    SLC, UT
    Recurving

    Is the recurving something that I need to do right away to make it work right or can I run it as is until I get to the point where I have a week off to send it in. Do you have more info on Jim C. Thanks for all your help and I hope to get this running soon (if I can figure out the electrical from other posts and what coolerman sent me) . I will also do a search for recurving, and try to look for info on Jim C. so I can PM him.

    Mitch
  9. FJ40Jim

    FJ40Jim The Pompatus of Cruisers SILVER Star

    Messages:
    7,735
    Location:
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Recurving the dissy is nice, but not a requirement.

    You should test the vacuum advance before installing the dissy. Use a mityvac (or a engine manifold vacuum source on a running engine) and apply vacuum to the advancer fittings. The inner one should provide noticeable movement of the breaker plate. The outer one will also move the plate, but only 3* of rotation, so you have to watch for it. If the inner fitting doesn't hold vacuum, or won't move, it is permissible to use the outer fitting as vac advance. It may actually work better this way on a desmogged engine.

    PS Mitch, What's on your hood? some kinda Utah road kill?
  10. FJ40Jim

    FJ40Jim The Pompatus of Cruisers SILVER Star

    Messages:
    7,735
    Location:
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    A properly functioning 1977 ignition is a good setup. The points last forever, and the dissy is the best points dissy they made.

    Upgrade to electronic ignition, if the points/ignitor setup fails. Otherwise, worry about more important things, like steering & stopping.
  11. mwsaling

    mwsaling Regular Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    SLC, UT
    Thanks Jim

    I didn't know what was wrong with my point system and didn't know how to fix it, would have been easy but the after market Jacobs Computer Ignition box made everything look like spaghetti. I read that this conversion could be done and I talked to Kurt (cruiseroutfitters.com) here in Utah and he said it is a good/better reliable system and if I could do it for cheap then go for it. It cut down on wiring considerably so far and when all hooked up I will have a system that works a little better and may last longer. I don't know if my anti smog is hooked up or not, I know where it is at and it all looks hooked up. I may be looking into unhooking it in the future, having you recurve my dissy (thanks for the right spelling of this by the way) and work on my carb. I will then send you this 77 dissy as a present for free. I now have to finish the wiring and hook up the vacuum on this dissy and I will be done, easier said than done (especially in freezing weather. Oh one more thing, once I find the vacuume hose that has the vacuum throddle can just T off of it with a connector and run it to the dissy, the vacuum was unhooked and then plugged in somewhere when the Jacobs was put in. I could even send you this Jacobs unit as a present, jk.

    The man on the front of this cruiser came with it. This cruiser was built by DJ's cruisers (out of business now) and they put these splat man's all over it. They did a lot of conversions all at once on a cruiser for a customer. They did power steering, another gas tank under the drivers seat, the funky lookin front bumper, a rancho suspension, 4.88 gears, and sliders off the back to protect the rear springs etc. and more. I got it for a good deal and it has been garaged it's whole life and has minimal rust on it. Anyway thank you again for all you do and spending time on a spank like me.

    Mitch

  12. Copenhagen1

    Copenhagen1 1000+ Club SILVER Star

    Messages:
    1,081
    Location:
    East Texas
    Thanks Coolerman and FJ40Jim.

    mwsaling... sorry for the hijack. hijack over.

    Copenhagen1
  13. mwsaling

    mwsaling Regular Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    SLC, UT
    No problem Copenhagen1

    It's like a family here, no one seems to mind. Sure there are plenty of different views but everyone seems to want to help out in some way.

    Mitch
  14. Coolerman

    Coolerman SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,730
    Location:
    Paint Lick, KY
    OK got some other things for you to try on the wiring of the FJ60 ignition. You mentioned you had a few wires you did not know what to do with.

    On your 1978 the white wire with black stripe from the loom originally went to the starter bypass circuit. Tape this wire off.

    The black/yellow wire is the Ig wire from the key switch and originally went to one end of the ballast resistor. Connect this wire to the male green connector coming from the ignitor. I would disconnect the wire going to that 'black box' unless you can determine what it is. Maybe a filter capacitor?

    Are the other two wires you mention (red and black) from the 1984 FJ60 harness or your 77 harness? I can find no reference to those colors on a 1978 FJ40 schematic.

    I guess we will see what happens on Friday... ;)

    Attached Files:

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