[70 FJ40] New (surfaced) what is the noise? New Flywheel, clutch, clutch cover and bearings. (1 Viewer)

[Ramacher]

See video: Dropbox - VID_20160205_141326.mp4



It comes and goes but stayed during this video. One is that whining noise and the other is that tearing noise when taking my foot off the clutch. Haven't driven it yet because I want to make sure I didn't mess anything up before doing so.

Also I've adjusted the clutch slave pushrod to the shortest possible length and throwout bearing it still touching the fingers. Do I need to shorten/screw in the fingers?

Edit: upon further inspection the tearing noise is the pressure plate grabbing onto the clutch disc. It's more of a light scratching noise. Am I right in assuming this is normal?

 

[Fast Eddy]

Dropbox is a giant virus. Post it on youtube.

 

[Ramacher]

Dropbox is a giant virus. Post it on youtube.

Added.

 

[Fast Eddy]

It's really tough to pull out any one noise. Does it engage and disengage? If you haven't driven it yet, maybe you got the clutch plate in backwards?

 

[Ramacher]

It's really tough to pull out any one noise. Does it engage and disengage? If you haven't driven it yet, maybe you got the clutch plate in backwards?

I'm positive the clutch plate is in properly. I tested putting it in both ways to make sure. One direction and the springs around the center hit the flywheel bolts and clutch doesn't seat fully on the flywheel so I flipped it and installed it where it doesn't hit the flywheel bolts and seats flush against the flywheel.

I just drove it around the block. Engages and disengages perfectly. No rough shifting. BUT I've still got the initial problem of why I decided I change out the clutch! It's slipping in 2nd and 3rd gear when going uphill. Everything is new. Any thoughts? I've adjusted the clutch pedal and fork according to the service manual.

Update: the throwout bearing is continuously in contact with the 3 fingers of the pressure plate. I was able to tighten the rounded off nut from the clutch slave pushrod that presses against the fork, making it shorter and for sure it's now tightened all the way. The clutch slip going uphill decreased a bit but now it's harder to shift into gears.

My next two thoughts are either take out the pushrod and shorten it a bit or to adjust the little fingers touching the throwout bearing so they don't make contact when the pedal is not depressed. Which would be more effective? I'm thinking the latter because there is play in the fork without the spring installed yet throwout bearing is making contact. Also one of the fingers isn't making contact and I can wiggle it a bit while the other 2 are touching the throwout bearing.

 

[Fast Eddy]

You said "everything is new". Does that include the master and slave cylinders? Maybe the pushrod from the slave came out part way and is not retracting as far as it should? Unbolt the slave cylinder and see what's holding the clutch fork from disengaging all the way. Sounds like whatever is holding it in was your problem before and you haven't yet fixed that problem. Post some pics of the slave-to-fork setup maybe.

 

[Ramacher]

You said "everything is new". Does that include the master and slave cylinders? Maybe the pushrod from the slave came out part way and is not retracting as far as it should? Unbolt the slave cylinder and see what's holding the clutch fork from disengaging all the way. Sounds like whatever is holding it in was your problem before and you haven't yet fixed that problem. Post some pics of the slave-to-fork setup maybe.

I installed the JTO upgraded clutch master and slave before changing the clutch. I'm sure the pushrod is seated in the slave properly because while taking out and reinstalling the transmission I had to unbolt the clutch slave and while reinstalling it the pushrod fell out and I remember putting it back in and making sure it's seated. Also rebled the clutch slave.

I think your right with something holding the fork from pulling the bearing back towards the rear. I even took a long screwdriver and attempted to pull back the piece the throwout bearing is pushed on and it would barely move back. I just got out of the shower and going to out to dinner and my GF would kill me if I got back in the truck even to take pics. I'll upload some tomorrow.

 

[Fast Eddy]

Hmm. JTO? Did you compare the new parts with the old parts?

Sounds ike maybe the throwout bearing is installed wrong, or the wrong part? It should be easy to get 1/4" to 1/2" of separation, at least. I forget how far it will pull back, but a lot.

Toyota parts are your friends.

 

[DougAustinTx]

The fact that the throwout bearing isn't touching all three fingers of the pressure plate equally would indicate that you have a mounting problem with the actuator arm itself, or the way you have the bearing seated in its recess. That would also explain the problem you have with clearance.

 

[65swb45]

Every once in a blue moon I will see a rig where everything is installed and adjusted correctly and the only thing left to do is to shorten the pushrod.

When I say 'blue moon' this has only been the resolution twice in 30 years of wrenching on cruisers.

Before you cut yours, just pull it out and check the range of motion on the front bearing retainer of the trans. Also, if you own a 10mm x1.25 die you can make a pushrod from some round stock to test the short rod theory before cutting yours.

Best

Mark

P.S. Do NOT adjust the fingers on the pressure plate. This is virtually NEVER the answer (once in 30 years)

 

[lcwizard]

Was the flywheel machined? If so maybe improperly machined flywheel . The stepped flywheels are particular
What is an " upgraded master and slave"? I was unaware Toyota had the stock parts wrong.
I'll bow to Mark on that. He's a better stock land Cruiser mechanic

 

[diogenese]

Do you have free play at the pedal? I'm wondering if the new master isn't coming fully back and is holding a bit of pressure. check to see if the pushrod into the master cylinder is free when the pedal is up.

 

[Ramacher]

Thanks for all your replies. I haven't had time to further investigate. I'm thinking it might be something with the fork not being able to pull back. Tomorrow I can attach a video of the travel from pushing the clutch pedal in and out. Also there's very little pedal play.

This is the clutch master and slave kit that's installed (I know, JTO crap, purchased that before doing any research): Clutch Master & Slave Conversion Land Cruiser FJ40 e-74 - JTOutfitters

 

[Ramacher]

More pics.

 

[Ramacher]

I took off the clutch slave and compared the pushrod to the old one, the old one is shorter so I decided to use that. Also I flipped the bracket the spring holds onto so it now it pulls the fork back better. When the slave was out I was able to pull the fork, bearing hub and bearing way off the fingers, at least a 1/2-3/4" clearance. After reinstalling the clutch slave and shorter pushrod, bearing still wouldn't come off the fingers. So I started adjusting the push rod from the clutch pedal to the clutch master. I can adjust it to where there bearing comes off the fingers, but then when pedal is depressed, the slave pushrod doesn't push the fork in enough to completely disengage the clutch causing hard shifts. If I adjust the slave pushrod, I can get it to completely disengage the clutch, but now back to square one and bearing is in constant contact with the fingers.

I tried different adjustments on both, the pedal to master pushrod and slave to fork pushrod, and followed the instructions in the service manual but still running into the issue that when I do get the throwout bearing off the fingers, the clutch fork doesn't travel far enough to completely disengage the clutch. Should I go back to using the new longer pushrod? Any tips to properly adjust both?

Here are pics of the new and old pushrods. 2nd pic is of old pushrod cleaned up/sand-blasted and adjusting nut installed on it tighted all the way.

 

[lostmarbles]

.... now back to square one and bearing is in constant contact with the fingers....

I'd try fixing one thing at time and start with this.

If your throw-out bearing stays in contact with the fingers (and continually rotates with them) regardless of whether your clutch pedal is depressed or not then surely your fork return spring is not trying to pull your fork back properly or else pressure from your slave cylinder pushrod is constantly over-riding the action of your return spring (to prevent it from pulling your fork back).

And my compatriot has a good reason for why your slave may not be relinquishing its pressure:

Do you have free play at the pedal? I'm wondering if the new master isn't coming fully back and is holding a bit of pressure. check to see if the pushrod into the master cylinder is free when the pedal is up.

 

[Ramacher]

I'd try fixing one thing at time and start with this.

If your throw-out bearing stays in contact with the fingers (and continually rotates with them) regardless of whether your clutch pedal is depressed or not then surely your fork return spring is not trying to pull your fork back properly or else pressure from your slave cylinder pushrod is constantly over-riding the action of your return spring (to prevent it from pulling your fork back).

And my compatriot has a good reason for why your slave may not be relinquishing its pressure:

I have it adjusted so there's very little free play at the clutch pedal. The pushrod into the master is not free when the pedal is up, but I can adjust it to be if I screw it into the pedal (shorten it).

I think I have to re-bleed the slave. I'm going to mess with it in an hour or so and hopefully I can figure it out.

 

[diogenese]

Yes you need a tiny bit of free play at the pedal to master pushrod or the fluid cannot come back into the reservoir when you lift off the pedal.

 

[Ramacher]

Yes you need a tiny bit of free play at the pedal to master pushrod or the fluid cannot come back into the reservoir when you lift off the pedal.

I'm at a loss. I tried today for 2 hours. When I do have the pedal set with just a tad of free play (under 1/4") I can have the bearing just barely not touching the fingers. BUT when I press the clutch pedal down all the way, it doesn't completely disengage the clutch disc causing hard shifts. I tried adjusting at both the pedal to master pushrod and then fine tuning with the slave to fork pushrod but no luck.

I can get it adjusted so either the throwout bearing doesn't touch the fingers and pressure plate doesn't completely come off the clutch, or pressure plate completely coming off the clutch disc but throwout bearing always in contact with the fingers. I even bled the slave a couple times to make sure there's no air in the system. Also tried with the old shorter pushrod and the newer longer one and no luck.

Do I just have to keep at it to achieve the magical balance or is something wrong that I'm missing?

 

[lostmarbles]

I'm at a loss. I tried today for 2 hours. When I do have the pedal set with just a tad of free play (under 1/4") I can have the bearing just barely not touching the fingers. BUT when I press the clutch pedal down all the way, it doesn't completely disengage the clutch disc causing hard shifts. I tried adjusting at both the pedal to master pushrod and then fine tuning with the slave to fork pushrod but no luck.

I can get it adjusted so either the throwout bearing doesn't touch the fingers and pressure plate doesn't completely come off the clutch, or pressure plate completely coming off the clutch disc but throwout bearing always in contact with the fingers. I even bled the slave a couple times to make sure there's no air in the system. Also tried with the old shorter pushrod and the newer longer one and no luck.

Do I just have to keep at it to achieve the magical balance or is something wrong that I'm missing?

Sounds like a mis-match between your master and slave. In other words, your master's bore may be too small (diameter-wise) in relation to your slave's bore so it doesn't give the slave enough fluid during one complete pedal-push to complete the required amount of fork movement.

(It is always a danger when parts are replaced that the dimensions of the new are not compared with those of the old .... and different bore-sizes can have a harmful effect just the same as different pushrod lengths do.)



Edit: PS. But before concluding a mismatch, double-check your clutch specs (including the pedal free-height measurement) are as per the FSM.