6/'72 FJ55: stock drivetrain swap to '84 FJ60 drivetrain (1 Viewer)

[threadchaser]

Drivetrain swap: FJ55 (6/72) gets FJ60 stock drivetrain

This thread documents a plain vanilla powertrain swap.

The target vehicle is a 6/'72 US FJ55 which is completely stock except for a Webber carb. The F motor is dead. The transmission is 3 speed, as is the transfer case.

A '84 FJ60 (unknown month) has donated a running 2F (with headers and a Weber 32/36), a 4 speed transmission, and a split transfer case (34mm idle shaft). Additionally a 10/83 FJ60 is available for most all parts.

The plan is to put the '84 FJ60 engine+tranny+T/C in. After that is up and running, next is to swap the rear axle to the second FJ60's for the parking brake, as well as the stronger parts and 3" wider stance. The third part will be to put the FJ60 front axle knuckles on for disk brakes. Adding power steering will probably not happen at this time.

 

[threadchaser]

Motor mount bracket, right front

I'm going to try using the 2 brackets which go between the engine block and front motor mounts that came from the FJ60 2F, rather that those that came with the FJ55.

The 3 bolt holes in each bracket seem to be positioned identically for both the FJ55's F and the Fj60's 2F but the bolts are different (10mm x 1.25 for the F and 12mm x 1.25 for the 2F). The bolt through holes on the FJ55's F brackets are too small for the 12mm x 1.25 bolts of the 2F to pass through without enlarging the holes. The dimensions look like they are the same from the engine to the motor mount i.e. I think the motor mounts will be positioned properly to use the existing attachment point on the frame rail.

The motor mounts themselves are different between the FJ55 and the FJ60 but seem to have the same dimension between the bracket and the frame. I am not sure if the FJ60's are better than the FJ55's motor mounts. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[threadchaser]

Motor mount bracket, left front

Seemingly the same issues as for the the right fronts:
- bolt holes line up but for different size bolts
- dimensions from block to mount seem very similar
- 2F seems to have a bit more metal

 

[threadchaser]

Motor mount to bracket incompatible

There is a minor incompatibility between the F and 2F at the interface between the motor mount bracket and the motor mount. The F's round motor mount has a raised ridge on the top around where the bolt enters. This seems to be an alignment mechanism because it fits into a matching recess in the motor mount bracket. The 2F motor mount does not have a similar alignment mechanism. (I'm guessing they abandoned it because without it there is more wiggle room when installing the motor).

So, without modification the F round motor mount cannot be used with the 2F bracket. This seems to close the question from two posts ago when I thought I might be able to use the F motor mounts (the bolt/stud in both is 12mm x 1.25 so that was not an issue). 2F motor mounts and 2F motor mount brackets is now the plan.

 

[threadchaser]

Motor mount to bracket incompatible, part 2

Here's a picture showing the incompatibility.

Using the terminology in the following document, perhaps the word for the raised bit is "pilot":
http://4xshaft.com/MeasuringGuide.pdf

 

[PabloCruise]

Great documentation!
I really appreciate the detail you put into this.
I will keep watching as I did not keep track of the jigsaw puzzle of mounts we used to put the 3FE in my '74 Pig body.

 

[scrapdaddy]

Threadchaser,

good work on the mounts.

Question on your front axle choice. Why not swap out the whole axle. FJ60 all the way. What about axle ratios? same or different.

I know you would have to change the spring perches, but would bolt up to the transfer case. Different flanges, yes?

 

[threadchaser]

Front axle choice is a hedge

Thanks.

I'm not at my main base and only have access to a 110v MIG welder so skipping the power steering and the complete FJ60 front axle are compromises. I would like to have both. That may simply have to wait for another day.

Instead, I plan to leave here with the stock steering gearbox (new seals maybe) and the FJ55 axle housing. That might change if when I get into the nitty gritty of part 3 of this project (i.e. front axle stuff) that the finances of working out compatibility for knuckles, tie rod ends, and what not turns out make is simply better to bite that bullet.

The current plan is to match the pumpkins front and rear. About 1000 miles ago I rebuilt the FJ55's rear axle 4.11 geared pumpkin so maybe 4.11s front and rear. This is going to be a trail pig so "slower" pumpkins are appropriate perhaps.

It looks like modified rear axle spring perches will be tacked on by me and I'll farm out having those solidly welded on. I don't want to farm out outboarding the front axle and the somewhat related frame mods for bringing on the PS gearbox so maybe just drive home with the FJ60 axle as cargo.

 

[scrapdaddy]

Sounds like a thought out plan, unlike me, who shoots from the hip.

 

[bigsal]

Sounds like a thought out plan, unlike me, who shoots from the hip.

Not quite Scrappy... if you shoot from the hip, I blow it out in the holster...

May just have to weld in new perches for those mounts after all, eh? Seems like having a wider rear axle would be strange on the steering until you install fj60 axles all around.

Subscribed, but I'd like to see her torn apart in some pics... please.

 

[threadchaser]

Flywheel housings comparison

Flywheel housings. FJ60 on the left, FJ55 on the right. No way the 4 speed transmission would fit on the FJ55's housing, short of massive modification. I want to leave the FJ55's 3 speed transmission out of my future so FJ60 housing it has to be.

Note that the 2 engine mounting rear brackets on the sides of the FJ60 housing came from the FJ55 housing. It seems the FJ60 doesn't use rear brackets on the flywheel housing, rather there is one crossmember that supports the transfer case. In other words, this FJ55 has 4 mounting points and the '84 FJ60 had 3.

I have installed the 2 brackets on the FJ60 housing initially for build purposes. With these installed I hope to have the transfer case positioned correctly for when I fabricate a support for it.

I am thinking about keeping those 2 brackets on when I am done unless someone knows what that would be bad. This way the FJ55 engine to transfer case assembly will have 5 mouting points. Perhaps I can make a transfer case support which just the 110v welder I have on hand. The 2 mounting brackets on the flywheel housing would take some of the load off the transfer case support.

 

[threadchaser]

FJ60 flywheel housing with FJ55 mounting brackets

The FJ55's mounting brackets installed on the FJ60's flywheel housing. Since the FJ60 flywheel housing didn't have motor mounts Toyota did not tap the housing for the 3 bolts that hold each bracket on to the FJ55's housing. The FJ60 housing has only two of the holes tapped but they do line up such that the brackets can be attached.

For the FJ55 the tapped holes are for 12mm x 1.75 bolts; for the FJ60 they are for 10mm x 1.25.

The right side bracket is how the clutch slave attaches to the flywheel housing so that is needed.

I installed two bolts to hold each bracket on to the housing. For each bracket, one bolt is 10.9 and the other is 8.8 because that was all that was on hand at the hardware store. This, I hope, is sufficient to install (and hold in place) the engine, transmission, and transfer case assembly. Maybe even a mellow test drive. If anyone thinks that is just foolish please do speak up.

Once I have figured out that all parts are fitting up, I'll fabricate a support for the transfer case.

 

[threadchaser]

Alternator top mount hardware

The 2F motor did not come with an alternator, nor it's mounting bracket. The F motor's will fit up it looks like. In the picture is the F motor. The bolt in my hand is the one that was on the 2F. It is too short to handle the spacer sleeve which is on the water pump and which positions the top alternator bracket.

Multiple threads on MUD talk about the water pump and fan positioning to the radiator being an issue. So, I am about to put the engine in with just the flywheel housing, not even the flywheel. So, 2F motor with front 2 engine mounting brackets and motor mount from the 2F installed with the 2 rear motor mount brackets from the F on the 2F's flywheel housing will position the engine for testing to see if the accessories on the front engine can will play well with the radiator.

 

[threadchaser]

Empty engine bay

Bigsal, here's the engine bay at this time. Any closeups of particular interest?

 

[threadchaser]

2F ready for test install

2F setup to get tested for front end fit up. I'll put it in tomorrow.

 

[threadchaser]

Bigsal, that's an interesting idea. I hadn't thought about one FJ55 axle and one FJ60 axle possibly affecting the steering. I'll have to figure that out after I get done with phase one (just get the 2F, 4-speed, and split transfer working with the FJ55 axles). If drivelines need to be modified I'll stop and figure this out first.

 

[PabloCruise]

You are doing it by the numbers! Great detail!

My 2F has the alternator mounted on the passenger side of the head, so it is up nice and high. Where you are putting it is where Toyota put the PS pump...

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

Bigsal, that's an interesting idea. I hadn't thought about one FJ55 axle and one FJ60 axle possibly affecting the steering. I'll have to figure that out after I get done with phase one (just get the 2F, 4-speed, and split transfer working with the FJ55 axles). If drivelines need to be modified I'll stop and figure this out first.

you won't have any major issues there...the front axle is 1" wider than the stock rear anyway, so the 60/62 rear axle is only going to be an inch wider than the front on either side- not terrible, but I'd run spacers to make up for it- 1"ers will get your front and rear square, 1 1/2"ers to keep the stock track difference...the 60 front axle is going to require outboarding the spring perches on the frame of the PIG, heavily notching the axle housing to keep the stock spring perch positions on the frame, or a 2 3/4" extension sleeve on the passenger side and some custom 30 spline axles/birfs; but I'm betting you were already aware of this...I drilled and tapped my bellhousing to give me the "right" number of bolt holes. also, I am currently using the 4 side mounting points tat the old set-up used with the later engine/trans/transfer, altho I did get an fj62 trans crossmember fit under the trans and plan to put a bushing in there to catch the trans belly, leaving me with 5 mounting points...

 

[bigsal]

Cool. Really just wanted to see some more pics of the rig. I have not had a fj60, and not even had a 2f motor, but when I did my motor swap, from F to sbc350, my F only has two motor mounts in the front, and then the two on either side of the bell housing. Nothing holds up the tranny or TC on that setup. Currently, we (obviously) welded in mounts for the SBC in the front and then took a cross member (tranny mount) from an early fj60 and modified it to support the transmission. The transmission is from a mid 80's fj60, so it mated up nicely to the cross member we used, but we still had to cut it and modify for the FJ55 frame. So far so good, but this equates to basically 3 ( actually 4) points of contact. Two motor mounts up front and one big cross member in the rear, which attached to both frame rails. Hope that helps. Your idea of 5 points of contact will probably be just fine. I always thought that original set up with the tranny and TC just hanging out there could have been a little more solid, but I haven't heard of anyone having issues. I suppose that IS one of the reasons they sell those aftermarket TC supports though. Here is a photo of my drivetrain all mocked up and ready to be dropped in. Motor mounts laying on the pallet, but you can see the rear cross member also.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

forgot to add...you'll need to run a holesaw thru the trans cover just aft and to the left of the original hole- wait, you'rs doesn't have a hole in it yet, does it? That's good, it'll save ya having to patch the spot where the old shifter would have gone thru the cover....also I am using the fj 60 front motor mounts on both sides and they drop right onto the frame side mounts...overall, it is a very good swap with the highlights being the splitcase and the later 2F. there may be an issue with the radiator- you'll need to source the proper water pump that was meant for an early 2F to use without fan clutch, and get the right fan to use with that water pump. you'll also need to figure out if you want to run the oil cooler, and if so, your new water pump will need to be an early 2F with oil cooler without fan clutch. The early hood might give you trouble with the stock 2F air cleaner, but if you use the wbber, you should be ok(get a late hood and a trollhole carb and dizzy).