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420 vs. 465

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by rusmannx, Jul 15, 2003.

  1. rusmannx

    rusmannx

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    if i decided to go the lower trans route instead of lower axle gearing... which one of these trans is the better?
    if ther is no better, then what makes you guys choose one over the other?
     
  2. woody

    woody Internet Fireman Staff Member

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    SM420 = last made in 1967, only year with reverse light switch was last one, 7:1 first gear, all 2wd or divorced t-case Adaptation to 73-older t-case = $150 or so with the SpaceGhost plate. (drivshafts extra)

    SM465 = 1968 until early 80's, 6.5:1 first, 2wd and 4wd options and diff spline counts. Adaptation to 73-older t-case (plate adapter) = $450 or so. (driveshafts extra) AA makes a long adapter that works with all spline counts.

    IMO, 465 is slightly more streetable, both are nice offroad. Both are heavy buggers. I went 465 since there was a better chance of parts due to newer, but not sure it matters.

    http://www.novak.com
     
  3. 73lndcrsr

    73lndcrsr SILVER Star

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  4. bodacious

    bodacious

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    they both suck... but a 420 sucks more
     
  5. rusmannx

    rusmannx

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    good input woody... thanks

    bodacious, some reasons would be appreciated.
     
  6. bsilva132

    bsilva132

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    SM420 is not that bad. They are cheap (paid $40), almost indestructable, and the adaptors are cheaper than the SM465. Plus the 420 is shorter than the 465. Is the 420 going to shift like a sports car??? Hell no. But I put it in for the 7 to 1 first gear. If I want smooth shifting I will drive my DD. The SM420 is probably the cheapest and realatively easiest way to get low gears. The converion cost me ~$400 total including driveshaft mods.
     
  7. Texican

    Texican s-Moderator

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  8. woody

    woody Internet Fireman Staff Member

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    yeah, like rockwell t-cases make that comparison fair....lol ;)

    (I sit corrected again....getting used to this...:p )

    I paid $40 for my SM465 and have another one on "reserve" for $50. Only issue is the conversion $$...plate is more, and you have to tap the output. I had no problems getting that done, but for whatever reason there are people across the country who can't find a machine shop that will do it....

    thanks for the link correction....apparrently my coffee wore out yesterday afternoon...
     
  9. wheelie

    wheelie

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    i can only say my two rig's with 465's will pull better hwy speed's, and i don't think the 420 goes down the road as good and not much diffrence on the mountain either but for getting there and back i would rather have the 465's
    wheelie
     
  10. phlyfish

    phlyfish

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  11. wheelie

    wheelie

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    not disputing gear ratio's, just sayin my 465 set up is better aa with spud shaft nice n quiet. :D
     
  12. bodacious

    bodacious

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    i have had a 420 in my 45 and 40 and another 40 with a 465.

    the 420 is old and hard to find parts or a tranny shop that wants to touch it.. not hard to work on.. but if your not into that than a rebuild will be a bitch..the 420 is a clunky shifting loud tranny.. and except for 3+ or 4 trails or moab maybe I never needed 1st with the transfer in low.. infact many times i used my ranger in od while using 1st because it was too low and i got too much slip..no momentum.. not to mention on the trail I really could have used a syncro to get into low ...

    420 = old technology and crappy ride IMO

    465 is better but still weighs a ton and clunky to drive..

    cant say i was happy with either when i had them..

    but then again.. i drive my 40 or 45 every day

    heck when i sold my ranger/420 setup i made sure that the guy wasnt using it as a DD...

    flame away
     
  13. woody

    woody Internet Fireman Staff Member

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    IMO, daily drivers outta be 4-speeds plus overdrive. Stock Cruiser 4-speeds rock on the road.

    SM420 and SM465 both suffer from a "missing" gear... (pattern = G-1-2-3, with 3= to 1:1 ratio) Your in-town driving is all in 2 and the motor sounds like it's running too many r's...slip into 3 and it's running too slow for easy town driving.

    NV4500 = G-1-2-3-OD and IMO is great on the highway but suffers a similar issue in town as the SM465/SM420.

    The AA setup with the spud shaft is great for using the quieter 75+ transfer case and/or using the 2wd version SM465. However, it's ~5.5" length can be an issue...and your options for a double t-case are reduced.

    IMO, a good daily/street/crawl combo would be the stock 4-speed tranny mated to a Marlin crawler box then to the stock t-case, or the RocBox doubler from AA.
     
  14. bodacious

    bodacious

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    amen to that woody....

    couldnt have said it better.. I went the ranger od and 420 route to try to find better road gearing but it was a pain and the ranger was loud...

    my opinion is auto tranny with tcase doubler.. 203, rock box etc.. if your already running a v-8

    and you can usually find toyota 4 speeds at different sites that are just sitting around collecting dust
     
  15. CruisinGA

    CruisinGA

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    I guess I'm just a little different....
    I went SM420 because I don't mind my clunky boat anchor 3 spd a bit other than the too high first gear. Noise doesn't bother me, if it did I wouldn't drive a 40. My dream setup is a 420 with a ranger. Low low gearing, good highway, don't have to screw with my axle ratios. Much less expensive than the 465 because of the adapter. I also planned on rebuilding my 420 myself because there is no urgency to get it in, and I would like the experience. For a teenager on a budget, the 420 is perfect.
    I guess what I'm trying to say here in the midst of all this 420 bashing, is that it does work for some people.
     
  16. rusmannx

    rusmannx

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    what is this ranger setup you guys are talking about?
     
  17. bodacious

    bodacious

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    Advanced adapters makes an od unit with a 1:1 gear and an OD gear.. its like a tranny with only hi and low.. has its own shifter and goes between the engine and the tranny.. i only used it with a v8 due to drivetrain lengthe.. but with a ranger you can center the tranny stick in the original hole and still have lots of room behind the HEI on a v-8.. it worked good but it shifted a little funny.. heck that is a lot of gear spinning as you go down the road downside was that it whined even with full synthetic in it...

    cruising GA.. you need to drive a EFI v-8 cruiser with a 700r and split case... t hat is damn quiet even without carpet...
     
  18. woody

    woody Internet Fireman Staff Member

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    I must say, I do like the SM465 tho...chose it over the 420 due to age concerns (probably unfounded tho) and availability.

    there might be a less-expensive SM465 plate appearing this winter...
     
  19. rusmannx

    rusmannx

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    are the auto-trans expensive to run with?
     
  20. Chef

    Chef

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    The 420 and 465 splits are so close as to not really be arguable. Niether is optimal as a street tranmission with a 2F:) But parts for the 420 are still EASY to find unless you need a gear. Sticks Only, Novak, Standard Transmission and others will all supply you with rebuild kits for ~$150. I've rebuilt several 420's, and yeah, they shift slow, but they're not any noisier than anything else with big gears. Toyota makes a lower range 4 speed, the h41. 4.9 first gear, with the rest of the ratio's spaced out nicely around it. Great street tranny becasue fo that-it's not a granny low+ a three speed like the sm's. No adapters needed, no driveshafts to re-tube, and the ~5 to 1 first is ~40% imporvement of the stock yota 3.5 to one...mate it to an earlier yota transfer adds another 18% reduction.