2F Turbo

Discussion in '60-Series Wagons' started by Yspen, Sep 3, 2011.

  1. Yspen

    Yspen

    Messages:
    445
    Location:
    Cape Town , SA
    [​IMG]

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    There is a turbo kit for sale here and it got me thinking . ( it includes a intercooler )

    My rebuilt 2F is awesome but at 3000rpm on the highway it feels like it needs a bit of help . I just want to smooth out the engine at higher rpms.
    If a setup like the one offered by Alpine will maintain my engine's performance in the low-end but add a bit in the high end ,then it could be just what it needs.
    I raised CR in my 2F to 9,5:1 and that is the first issue ( I will have to go back to stock CR , but that is not a problem as I do have a spare head ) .

    The longer cam ( Delta 250S ) in my 2F will probably suit the turbo and the spare head has hardened valve seats . I am looking for negatives here .

    How much will a turbo affect the fuel consumption ?
    A long turbo lag is just what I am looking for - so maybe I should consider this ?
    Is the carb supplied reliable and as good as the Aisin in long run?
    Can a turbo on a carbed engine not cause the engine to run lean easily and start to burn valves?
  2. Spike Strip

    Spike Strip SILVER Star

    Messages:
    9,211
    Location:
    Right behind you.
    I don't think you're gonna get much out of a 2F above 3K rpm's no matter what you do to it... And fwiw, they are better off staying below that level, anyway.

    What's your diff gearing ?
  3. Yspen

    Yspen

    Messages:
    445
    Location:
    Cape Town , SA
    Diffs 4'56 and 33" tyres
  4. cruiser guy

    cruiser guy

    Messages:
    1,425
    Location:
    Sandy, UT
    you dont have any power gain from 3k on? usually 3k is when my secondaries open up and it seems to climb to 3500 and past pretty good. could it be your cam?
  5. Yspen

    Yspen

    Messages:
    445
    Location:
    Cape Town , SA
    The car actually has a great deal of power at 3000rpm - I am wondering if the Turbo would add power in order to gain fuel economy
  6. cruizakid

    cruizakid

    Messages:
    821
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I got a turbo on my 3F but I havent tested it out yet cause the car been in full respray and engine work
    image-228055347.jpg image-3985054175.jpg
  7. tclark

    tclark

    Messages:
    946
    Location:
    Ruston, LA
    Where are ya'll finding these turbo setups?
  8. Yspen

    Yspen

    Messages:
    445
    Location:
    Cape Town , SA
    This one in first post is for sale here in South Africa and made by a company "Alpine" turbos .
    I see the one tclark has is a post-carb setup and the one I can get is a pre-carb setup with ( what looks like a ) Dellorto carb .

    It is on sale for R7500 ( roughly $1000 ) . I think I would rather get a TBi conversion or some other eFi conversion first .
  9. cruiser guy

    cruiser guy

    Messages:
    1,425
    Location:
    Sandy, UT
    I turbo could do nothing but good. but how much good is what I dont know. I was looking into this also and From what I got from everyone is that for the work and price of putting a turbo on is not worth the pay off you get
  10. forrestvt

    forrestvt

    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Do a search and check out the set up MACE has built. Seems to work well for him.
  11. Yspen

    Yspen

    Messages:
    445
    Location:
    Cape Town , SA
    Currently I am thinking that adding a TBi and ditching the carb or making a custom fuel injection rail in adition to the turbo would be better . Then Fueling and timing would be more optimum as the aim is economy and power .

    There is a guy here who can add 6 injectors in a multiport setup by welding ports onto the existing manifold

  12. stocksail

    stocksail

    Messages:
    330
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    I am curious about this concept.
  13. Yspen

    Yspen

    Messages:
    445
    Location:
    Cape Town , SA
    Did I say that ....
    meant to say : add power , make the engine more efficient and thus hopefully more economical
  14. Heckraiser

    Heckraiser

    Messages:
    813
    Location:
    Colorado
    I think the assumption that adding a turbo would not have a negative impact on output at lower RPM's is a pipe dream. I've never driven a turbo setup without lag. And if you intend to spend a lot of time above 3k rpm with a 2F, you're just going to prematurely wear out the motor. Most of us shift at or before 3k and for good reason: this motor was never meant to spin fast.

    And it's true, a more powerful motor can improve your mileage since it doesn't have to work as hard to haul the car around, but tossing a turbo on 1940's technology probably does not fit into this concept.

    IMO, if you want more power out of your cruiser, swap. SBC, diesel (toyota, isuzu, GM, Cummins). Any one of them (except maybe B-series diesel) will give you better economy and more power. If, like the rest of us, you find the 2F "sufficient," then just keep putting oil in it and stay in the right lane :)
  15. ntsqd

    ntsqd technerd

    Messages:
    4,798
    Location:
    Upper So. CA
    I worked on the development of this turbo: Mechatronik Division | EcoMotors
    Both it and VNT's can be configured to not have any turbo lag while still offering performance to the engine's redline. Combining them would be a stellar turbo, but the ECT isn't in production.

    With it's relatively low max RPM it may be possible to set up a turbo that has off-idle boost and doesn't run out of volume at/near redline.
  16. Trollhole

    Trollhole THC Moderator Supporting Vendor

    Messages:
    18,802
    Location:
    Mauldin, SC
    How in the world will those 2 manifolds fit together? It certainly looks like the ears would get in the way of each other. Maybe it's upside down?

    [​IMG]
  17. dohcdelsol93

    dohcdelsol93 snoogans

    Messages:
    2,567
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    a proper sized turbo would definately help out at 3,000 + rpms so long as the 2f holds out at that rpm range :)

    a turbo will increase power across all usable rpm range.

    The smaller tubo will spool quicker giving low end but will die on it's face when it reaches higher rpms.

    The lager turbo will take longer to spool (there is a such thing as too big of a turbo) and help with high rpms.

    For street applications a medium size turbo that helps middle/upper rpms seems to work the best, kind of a happy medium.

    Tuned properly you will also probably notice a gain in MPG at part throttle cruising as it helps the engine to run more efficiently.

    Will it help scoot you down the freeway at a higher MPH...probably not reliably...but having one set up right will help you keep going 65mph down the freeway without dropping to 45 going up a grade.

    I'm not sure what heat tolerances the stock 2F's have, keeping the tune very conservitive will help with heat expansion rates that can/will kill ringlands.

    I'm also not sure of rod stregenth, never heard of forged rods on these but i would imaging just a 50-75hp boost would not push the limits of the bottom end.

    to reduce heat think outside the box...maybe a rear exhaust mount turbo? Plenty of under frame space under the 60!
  18. Yspen

    Yspen

    Messages:
    445
    Location:
    Cape Town , SA
    I found someone who ran one of these turbos with the Dellorto Carbs as in the picture.
    Apparently they were very high on fuel consumption .

    After reading a bit wider is seems that a turbo needs to be combined with eFi to make it run well .
    So I am going to buy the turbo setup and see how it can be combined with TBi or a custom multiport eFi . Hope I do not burn my hands in the process .
  19. ntsqd

    ntsqd technerd

    Messages:
    4,798
    Location:
    Upper So. CA
    Current OE trend in turbos is to get them absolutely as close to the exhaust valves as is physically possible. Some really out there designs use one turbo per cylinder and put the turbine scroll in the head as part of the exhaust port. What they are after is the energy in the gas pulse when the valve first opens.
    No way would I do as some have done and put the turbo way down-stream in the exhaust. If for no other reason than the danger to the oil system.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
  20. dohcdelsol93

    dohcdelsol93 snoogans

    Messages:
    2,567
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    there is no danger to the oil system if you do a remote mount turbo. You also clean up the engine bay and keep under hood temps cooler. Much more room for other accessories and so and/so forth.

    Tapping into an oil port of the engine with a -3an line say a T off the oil sending unit will provide plenty of oil flow.

    For the oil return there are numerous companies making very quiet high flow oil pumps that are made/designed for temps of those found in oil coming out of a turbo.

    Circle track cars have been using oil pumps to cool diffs for years, no new thing here.

    They make rear mount turbo kits for late camaros/trans-ams.

    as for the fuel delivery system, they used turbos on carb'd engines for decades before they had EFI. It has been/can been done.

    I'm not a huge fan of it but it's simple. Simple is better when your on a budget.

    Go EFI and you'll have to be able to tune the system....something like megasquirt...not sure you'll find someone to modify/socket/tune/chip a 62 ecu

    you can spend 2-3K alone on just engine management systems. Add the cost of the tune and all turbo parts to that.

    Makes adjusting a few screws on a carb with a fee of $100 an hour on a dyno with a wide ban o2 seem like a good idea.

    as for positioning the the turbo as close to the head as possible i'd research heat tolerances. Keeping her rich will keep her cool but will only do so much.

    Putting the turbo closer to the head will help spool the turbo quicker but usually the longer the runners the higher the HP output will be. From a relability sand point on a 2f i wouldn't not want the hot side of the turbo riding on the head of a 2f which already likes to run on the warm side.

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