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2F + 3F-E = 2F-ETI Into My FJ40

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by matt.mcinnes, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. matt.mcinnes

    matt.mcinnes 2F-ETI GOLD Star

    Messages:
    2,281
    Location:
    Melbourne
    2F + 3FE = 2F-ETI Into My FJ40

    Well after reading a few threads on grafting a 3FE head on to a 2F block we have decided to go the whole 9 yards and return the punt for a touch down and build an injected turbo water inter cooled 2F.

    I already have a worked 2F that rocks that's been rebuilt and balanced, tomorrow I pick up a 3F-E complete for $200us that was pulled out and replaced by a 350 in an 80 series . It was running when removed too.

    My 2F, the last dyno run. So we know where we started.

    [​IMG]

    First up will be to remove the 3F-E head and have it worked, ported and polished plus what ever else it need to suit the turbo.

    So for those interested watch this space for a detailed write up.

    TEC SPECS COVERED SO FAR IN THIS THREAD. I will up date this as the thread progresses in RED links in ORANGE

    3F-E Head ported polished larger flat faced Ferrea valves and flow tested before and after.

    Con Rods for a Jaguar 4.2 straight 6 will replace the stock 2F rods

    Pistons JE Custom

    ECU Wolf V500

    Turbo is a by Garrett GT30 82R

    Valve Springs by Crow Part No4832

    ARP Con Rod Bolts Part No 154-6001

    Wastegate Tial 44mm

    Home Brew Intercooler Air to water

    Jet Hot Ceramic Coatings

    TLF Performance Parts 550cc Injectors

    Davies Craig Electric Water Pump for the Intercooler

    READING
    New Features compares the 60 series 2F with the 62 3FE
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2007
  2. my64fj40

    my64fj40 New Member

    Messages:
    1,680
    Location:
    Corpus Christi/Austin, Texas
    Should be interesting.

    Lookin forward to it.
  3. John Smith

    John Smith In the garage GOLD Star

    Messages:
    3,824
    Location:
    Maryland
    Could you explain what that means for those of us who are dyno and metric challenged? I read it to say that peak torque is reached around 3000 rpm then levels off? I look forward to seeing this build up thread. :beer:
  4. lovetoski

    lovetoski SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,045
    Peak Torque @ ~2000, peak HP @~3000-3500. (Lines are labeled P and T).
  5. Mace

    Mace rock scientist.. Staff Member s-Moderator

    Messages:
    17,859
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    So you max out the RWHP at 100 (75 KW) correct?

    With 368 Ft lbs of torque? (500 nm)


    interesting..
    I hit 140 hp and 220 ft lbs in my rig.

    How did the torque numbers get so high without much increase in HP?
  6. Mark W

    Mark W New Member

    Messages:
    6,166
    Location:
    The Greatland
    I'm assuming from the torque/power curves that this must have been with a stock camshaft.

    Any induction, exhaust or compression changes to that engine?

    What sort of loss are you attributing to the drivetrain (what sort of flywheel numbers do you think these approximate)?
  7. matt.mcinnes

    matt.mcinnes 2F-ETI GOLD Star

    Messages:
    2,281
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Red is Gas Blue is LPG as for the Metric coversions sorry I'm imperially challenged :eek:
  8. numtel

    numtel New Member

    Messages:
    400
    Location:
    Chico, CA
    Wow you got more power on propane? I'm asssuming you must have adjusted the timing when switching right? Is there anything else you did?

    I run gas and lpg in my cruiser too but I don't think I have a power increase with the propane.
  9. matt.mcinnes

    matt.mcinnes 2F-ETI GOLD Star

    Messages:
    2,281
    Location:
    Melbourne
    The original 2F was built and cammed for low down torque on LPG the head was skimmed and a few other bits. So it's tuned for LPG

    This engine was built for torque not hp to turn 35's. Diffs are 4.556 too.

    30 spline Longfileds in the front as we snapped a stock CV every trip out.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2007
  10. Mark W

    Mark W New Member

    Messages:
    6,166
    Location:
    The Greatland
    I've got a 2FE-T cooking on a back burner myself. Down the line a bit, so I'll be watching your build with interest.


    Mark...
  11. matt.mcinnes

    matt.mcinnes 2F-ETI GOLD Star

    Messages:
    2,281
    Location:
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    First the engine builder wants the 3F-E head which is stock to calculate the volume and compression from there he will if needed open it up.
    It seem that to get more out of the turbo it may be better to de-compress the engine, rather than incress it. All this can be done while its been ported and polished.

    Big learnig curve for myself here too.

    New forged pistons will be needed as well as con rods. Crank I'm told is not an issue cam has not yet been discussed.

    Now where is my credit card:eek:

    I'll take pics of the 3F-E head before it goes to be machined and post up a full list of the modifications and after pics.

  12. Mark W

    Mark W New Member

    Messages:
    6,166
    Location:
    The Greatland
    I don't think you will need any change to the connecting rods. Rod bolts are the weak link.

    Nominal compression on a 2FE *should* work out right at 9.0:1 A little on the high side for a turbo, but it you're gonna be running an intercooler it should be okay.


    Mark...
  13. matt.mcinnes

    matt.mcinnes 2F-ETI GOLD Star

    Messages:
    2,281
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Just off the phone with the turbo people they would like the engine to make around 8.0:1 so that's sorted if need be the head will be opened up to achive the required compression.

    Also to run boost up to 20 psi I should have the the head or block O'ringed:D

    I'm learning real fast.
  14. Mark W

    Mark W New Member

    Messages:
    6,166
    Location:
    The Greatland
    Yeah I was assuming a max boost of 15 psi. I'd be happy as hell to make that work. ;)


    Mark...
  15. Mace

    Mace rock scientist.. Staff Member s-Moderator

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    20 psi is nuts..

    stick with 12-15 psi boost...


    at 2000' elevation with a 8:1 compression ratio under 15 lbs of boost you will have an approximate effective compression ratio of almost 16:1

    At 20 psi you are lookin at about 19:1...
  16. Mark W

    Mark W New Member

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    6,166
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    But the concerns of a supercharge making cylinder pressure in conjunction with the pressure made by the compression of the piston moving up are not the same as an equal amount of presure made by compression alone. And an intercooler reduces the equvilency even further.Cylinder temps and detonation is not the same because of the amount of heat actually generated outside of the combustion chgamber and (in the case of an intercooler) shed there too. Not to say that even 12psi of boost is not a LOT. ;)


    Mark...
  17. Klunky Chris

    Klunky Chris New Member

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    1,068
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    yea.... my 87 supra turbo is running at what..... 6-8PSI?!?
  18. matt.mcinnes

    matt.mcinnes 2F-ETI GOLD Star

    Messages:
    2,281
    Location:
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    Without adding the O'rings to the head or block the turbo people here only recommend a max of 10psi. It's seems the O'rings aid the cylinder head gasket so a higher boost can be run.

    Like I said before I'm learning as I go. but for myself I think 15psi max would be the go rather than pushing the limits too far.

    Other issues I have yet to address are fuel pumps and gas convertors to cope.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2007
  19. Mark W

    Mark W New Member

    Messages:
    6,166
    Location:
    The Greatland
    Considering that 15 psi will basically double your power... Yeah, I'd say that's plenty and I'd be more than happy to reach that level. (Don't forget that there's a lot of room to boost the power of a 2F BEFORE you get stated with boost!)


    Before anyone lurking this thread jumps in with smarmy comments about polishing a turd or the old "put a smallblock in it"... Same reason mountains get climbed... Because it's there. ;)


    Mark...

    Mark...
  20. matt.mcinnes

    matt.mcinnes 2F-ETI GOLD Star

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    I get all the V8 comments and not a cat in hells chance, the look on someones face with an all powerful V8, been beaten at comp by a 2F is PRICELESS:cheers:

    Some of you may have seen this before its posted here and there on this forum. Me at play on my AT's

    http://scotto.3rdrock4x4.com/MattMc40.mov

    As you can see My current 2F turns 35's nicely:grinpimp:
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2007

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