Need more help narrowing down vibration (1 Viewer)

I posted a few weeks ago about a vibration at 38 to 43 while accellerating only. I only feel it in the floor board and it seems to be ranging from 35 to 45 now also. The vibration started about 5,000 miles ago and I noted a light tarnishing on the outer wheel bearing on about 1/3 of the inner portion that contacts the spindle on either sideof the vehicle. I also did my 1st complete birfield repack 10,000 miles ago including ALL bearings and seals.
Now, so far I have done the following to narrow down the vibration: wheels balanced and rotated, greased all joints and shafts and this past week I installed a cdl switch from Slee. This is where it gets interesting. I first removed the rear driveshaft and inspected u-joints and drove it . Joints look fine and still have the vibration. Next the front drive shaft came off and voila the vibrationm is gone and upon inspecting I notice one u-joint is very stiff half way through its movement and the other is not as bad but still not as smooth as the rear shaft u-joints were. I also notice the -y- sections that holds the u-joint on the shaft are not in "time" , the front -y- is rotated to be exactly opposite the rear one. there is also a yellow mark on each piece of the shaft showing this is how someone wanted this lined up. So I have the toyota tech guys install new joints and they agree that the joints could be my source of vibration and that the driveshafts do not come from the factory lined up like this " out of time". I install the shaft with new joints "in time" and still have the vibration GRRRR. I then take it out and put it back in the way it was and still have the vibration DOUBLE GRRRRR. One quick observation I noted with the fron shaft out and center diff locked was that the clunk or thud I usually feel when coming to a stop was much more pronounced. Probably nothin but thought I should mention it.

Please Please guys help me out here. This one could seriously dip into my Slee fund!!

Have you balenced your front drive-line?
Do you have any oil around your yoke on the dif (like the pinion seal leaking a little)?
How much lift are you running?
Did the vib speed change after replacing the u-joint?

Phil

Phil, No I have not had the shaft balanced, no leaks on yoke arean just a lil on 1 or 2 nuts on the front diff housing. No lift. Yes the vibe speed range did changea lil bit after the new joints I believe. I shopuld also the vibe is more pronounced the faster I accellerate.

Thnx, Vince

Vince I would go down and balence it (hi-speed if available). Mark with a marker where the slip yoke sets when installed on the vehicle and tell the shop thats where you want it sitting when they balence it.

Phil

Phil, I'm looking at my fsm propeller shaft blow-up. Is the slip yoke the same as the sleeve yoke? Do you mean I should have them balance it with the sleeve yokes "in time" , lined up?

Thnx, Vince

No the part that slides in and out. You want extended the same when they balence it as when its in the vehicle. The drive line place will/should make sure thats in line/time.

Phil

OK Phil thnx, I do appreciate the help. Why the hell would someone put it in there like that? Do you think an unbalanced shaft may be what caused my u-joints to get all messed up? Makes sense.

Thnx again, Vince


p.s. I know for a fact that all prior work on this rig was done by Greg's japanese auto in the seattle area. From what I have seen I am not too happy with them.

Your front shaft is supposed to be assembled with the ears 90 degrees out of phase. In other words, the ears of the front and rear joints on the front shaft should NOT line up as viewed straight from the front or rear. This is factory and contrary to any other shaft I've seen.

Did the "toyota tech guys" (who are they, btw?) use new Toyota OEM joints, or what?

DougM

>> there is also a yellow mark on each piece of the shaft <<
>> showing this is how someone wanted this lined up. <<

Confirming what Doug said:

The front drive shaft is 90 degrees "out of phase." The rear drive shaft is "in phase."

From a post by Norm Needham:

On full time 4WD models the rear shaft is in phase (yokes aligned) while
the front is 90 degrees out of phase.

Universal joints by their nature are NOT constant velocity joints when
working through an angle. A smooth/constant rotational force is
converted to a jerky 4 movement affair. The greater the angle, the
greater the jerking. Try driving a 4WD with uni joint steering knuckles
and you will feel this through the steering.

The idea of having unis on either end of a shaft "in phase" is to allow
them to "cancel" each other. This of course necessitates that they be
working through roughly (actually closely) the same angle.
The 80s front unis being out of phase contradicts this practice. I don't
know why they are out of phase, and have not asked Mr Toyoda.
Anybody out there know him intimately enough to ask such a question?

Correct assembly will see all grease nipples on either shaft roughly in
line (if assemblies are as from Toyota).


More information is in This thread.

-B-

Well well, Some more great wisdom from my lewiston Idaho toyota tech guys. Doug didnt get his name but it was Rogers Toyota. So the concensus here ( which I trust much more than anyone else around here) is 90 degrees out of phase. Thats how I put them back in and thats how they were in there when I took them out. I will get the front drive shaft balanced Mon. hopefully. another pisser about the work toyota did was they put the joints in so the zerks are not lined up now. Can u believe this?


Doug yes the joints look exactly like the old joints, zerks and all, Vince

Vinny my boy. "look exactly like the old joints" doesn't help much. Check your receipt and see if they have Toyota part numbers down for the joints. They're under no obligation to use Toyota parts even if they're a dealer. Also, others can chime in here, but if they rebuilt your joints then that could be the issue (vs purchasing assembled joints from Toyota). Properly setting up the journal caps if they rebuilt yours is quite exacting and these guys don't sound like the top of the DNA foodchain so far. I think you should clarify exactly what was done and also have the zirc fittings lined up for crying out loud. Ya think a few half ounce (larger than most weights) zirc fittings not being where Toyota planned them would affect the balance a bit? Yeesh....

Methinks you went from slightly worn front shaft joints to either new joints out of balance due to the zirc fittings being improperly lined up, or to poor joint quality from an inexperienced rebuilder. That would easily explain why your symptoms are unchanged. So, cancel the balancing since the shaft needs to be reclocked so the zircs are lined up.

DougM

Doug, Sorry about the less than clear answer. The part numbers are 04371-35051 $55.10. Nothing was rebuilt as I inspected the numerous pieces of the old joints and the complete joint(s) were there in pieces. My wife took the cruiser up to Dworshak resevoir for the weekend but now that I think about it, I gave them the driveshaft in phase (not how I pulled it from rig) and when I got it back it was still in phase. When I looked at it closer before puttin it back in is when I noticed the zerks were not lined up. Maybe when I pulled it the second time and put it back on out of phase the zerks were lined up, I didn't notice. Will definately check on Sun.

Thnx, Vince

Ah, I see. Well, the balance and phasing will affect the amount of vibration. So, I'd ask the Toyota dealer to properly assemble it (ears out of phase, grease fittings in line) and see how she goes. It's again worth noting that there's some skill involved in properly assembling the joint as the journal caps must be properly fitted and measured for this fit. I'm curious what an entire new assembled Toyota front shaft would have cost you as a 5 minute bolt in, vs the joints and paying for it to be assembled at shop rates....

How's the water level at Dworshak? We've been wanting to go down there with the boat but the news the last couple years has not been good.

DougM

Doug, When all was done and said the 2 new joints cost 183.76. I hope a new shaft was not near this price, maybe c-dan will chime in here.

I hear the water level at dworshak is way up. It is a beautiful area when the water is up and not so pretty when there is 75 yds. of muddy bank down to the water. I was enjoying the lil break but now I am anxious for the wife to get back.

Thnx, Vince

I don't know what a shaft cost, but that may be quite a bit less. Hope so...

We've heard it's a great place when full. Last time someone from my group went down there, they put the boat in the water, loaded it up and headed directly away from shore. Promptly hit a gravel bar and ended his vacation before it began - prop and rudder destroyed.

DougM

FRONT DRIVESHAFT, 37140-60340, list $459.41, smart shopper about $344.56

Thnx Dan, I feel a lil better now. I will feel much much better once I figure out this vibration and fix it.

Doug, Around here (snake and clearwter rivers) jet propultion is preferred for good reason. heh

Vince

Qick update, Took truck into a driveline shop. Guy crawls underneath and comes back out and tells my 2 week old u-joint is LOOSE. It's the rear joint of front drive shaft. I'm wondering if there is something wrong in the transfer case that could cause this vibration and loosen a u-joint in 2 weeks? Truck is goin in to the dealer tomorrow.

Thnx, Vince

bump

Vince,

I don't think I made myself clear enough on the skill required to assemble a joint. In your description of the part while IDing it as a Toyota part, you said you saw "the complete joint there in pieces". Which is a little like saying "I saw him turn left as he was turning right." So, I'll assume it was in pieces. What I seem to have not made clear is that it is the actual assembling of the two pieces of the drive shaft via the joint that takes actual skill and dedication. Your dealer doesn't seem to exhibit the latter and performed the former, so I suspect the joints are little/no better than when you came in.

What's supposed to be done is the joints are assembled with the pressed in spider bearings individually matched with snap rings that locate them for best fit. The quality shop has a wide selection of these snap rings on hand in addition to the ones in the kit, and they're color coded for thickness. Once minimal clearances have been achieved by repeat trial fittings, then they go back and use the SST to recenter the spider and ensure the now minimal clearances have been split to equal clearances on each side of the spider shaft being worked on. Done with that? Good, now do it 3 more times and you've finished one joint and it's time to work on the other one.

So, it takes a special service tool and some skill to do this with plenty of opportunities to screw up, rush it or realize you've got to get to that Camry oil change you promised by 2:30. If you don't perfectly recenter the spider with that procedure, the shaft is not spinning around its perfect center, but describing little eccentric circles like a, well, like a slightly bent shaft would.

I'd take it to the drivetrain shop and ask them to measure the lateral runout, then with the evidence of improperly assembled joints AND an improperly assembled shaft (lessee here, what else could the Toyota dealer possibly have done wrong, um.....hmmmm.....nothing?) I'd go to the Service Manager and politely ask for my money back on the labor. Then run, do not walk, to a qualified drivetrain shop and politely ask them to do it properly.

DougM