Enjoy your 2F while you've got it. Here comes the future: Toyota Murai (1 Viewer)

[snobdds]

This video is going to create huge demand for OEM yellow grease pen holders. I know I'm looking for where I can score one.

And the pointing, what is up with the pointing. It's like a jedi mind trick for the bolt.

Sadly however, I still would like to see electric over hydrogen power.

 

[60Works]

I wonder what the public's reaction will be when one of those H2 tanks explodes in a crash.

H2 combustion engines make sense on off hiway vehicles. Not so sure about about the safety of highway speeds. The trick is finding a way to have water in the fuel tank and separate the H2/O2 immediately before combustion.

H2 fuel cells are just a battery alternative, storing electricity in H2 rather than rare, heavy metal, environmentally dirty batteries.

I'd be happy to pull out my stinky, dirty 2F for a viable, strong electric substitute.

 

[Number6]

I've always been intrigued by electric motors as the way to go. Microprocessor control for a motor at each wheel, possibility for infinite adjustments. no differentials, transmission, transfer cases, or axle shafts. engine rebuild/replace would be a snap. no oil changes, minimal lubing. That's just to name a few...

What about swappable power modules- battery for commuting, gas/diesel generator unit for long trips? Switch a battery pack for a fuel tank as well.

 

[Crick60]

I like that we own 1980's low efficiency heavy vehicles and the perception is we're fuel guzzling environment killers and yet the conversation here is anything but.

In Australia the 4WD campaign for preventing authorities locking the gates to the state and national parks is "Stop the Extreme Greens". This kind of conversation is why our and the wider 4WD community is huge steps in front of the Green movement.
We understand the demands and constraints of the future and we react with intelligent innovation not isolation.

 

[White Stripe]

I question how much pollution comes from modern emmision compliant new vehicles. They seem to run very clean. I would imagine most pollution these days comes from foreign countries that don't have much industrial emmision standards and poor vehicle emmision standards.

 

[Slow Left]

The fuel cell automobile uses batteries and electric motors just as electric cars do; the difference is that the fuel cell car stores additional fuel (often in the form of H2 (hydrogen)) to increase the range of the vehicle. The H2 is 'burned' (i.e. reacts with oxygen, often in the form of air) to recharge the batteries on demand and produces water as an 'exhaust'.

The differences in technology solutions (fuel cell vs electric (battery only) vs biodiesel vs ?) reduces down to where you break your H- bonds...what is the original feedstock for the energy.

For fuel cells, that means how do you produce H2.

For electric, that means how do you generate the electricity that is stored in the battery.

 

[Slow Left]

I've always been intrigued by electric motors as the way to go. Microprocessor control for a motor at each wheel, possibility for infinite adjustments. no differentials, transmission, transfer cases, or axle shafts. engine rebuild/replace would be a snap. no oil changes, minimal lubing. That's just to name a few...

What about swappable power modules- battery for commuting, gas/diesel generator unit for long trips? Switch a battery pack for a fuel tank as well.

The Tesla design uses two electric motors; one in the front and one on the rear axle housings. It keeps the traditional axel housing/differential/axel design, so each electric motor drives the differential it sits on.

So, to swap those electric motors into an FJ60, you'd be looking at pulling the 2F, transmission, transfer, drive shafts, cooling, fuel tank/lines. Then you'd have to find a way to couple the electric motors to the differentials. You'd need to use their electric power steering assist (no more pulleys) or something similar and would have to come up with a solution for heating/cooling the cabin. I would assume you'd have to come up with a way to provide brake power assist as well, since there would no longer be a vac source.

The batteries are going to be the gamble. They're not cheap and not an investment (more like a liability) because a couple years from now they'll probably be out of date and need to be replaced anyhow, so you'll have to throw down another chunk of change.

 

[Slow Left]

I wonder how serious Toyota's commitment to hydrogen is. About 3 years ago, Toyota and Shell built a fancy hydrogen fuel only station on 190th Street in Torrance, right across the street from Toyota USA headquarters. It was all over the news, on TV, etc.

A few months later, the Shell signage was gone and fences went up around the station.

About a year later, the whole facility was demolished! To this day, it's an empty dirt field.

What happened?

I'll bet that Toyota would commit fully to playing it's role in the ecosystem necessary (along with producers of H2, suppliers of supporting technologies and retailers for the infrastructure to distribute and sell the fuel) under strong political leadership of the Japanese government, especially if the Japanese government has bet on fuel cell tech as it's energy independence solution. Which would mean Toyota developing the technology to serve it's resource constrained domestic market...not the US or European market, which has less incentive to bet big on fuel cell tech...

The US and China each still have 200 years (at current consumption growth rates) of coal, Canada has the tar sands, Russia has stranded natural gas, Brazil has biodiesel (sugarcane)...

I'm beginning to think that in the case of Japan (from the perspective of Japanese manufacturers and their suppliers selling to their own domestic market) there is an incentive to pay a premium for establishing the infrastructure to support fuel cell technology for automobiles...IF...there is a technology for H2 production that can be remotely competitive with oil...like solar cells efficient enough to split water (sea water) into H2 and O.

With no natural resources, Japan would probably be willing to pay a premium to adopt such a fuel cell technology solution over what we would be willing to pay for that solution here in the US or Canada.

The difference in cost (for Japan) between the price of a barrel of oil and the price of an equivalent barrel of oil in the form of domestically produced H2 is what Japan (the Japanese government) is willing to pay to protect it's citizens.

The fuel cell automobile uses batteries and electric motors just as electric cars do; the difference is that the fuel cell car stores additional fuel (often in the form of H2 (hydrogen)) to increase the range of the vehicle. The H2 is 'burned' (i.e. reacts with oxygen, often in the form of air) to recharge the batteries on demand and produces water as an 'exhaust'.

The differences in technology solutions (fuel cell vs electric (battery only) vs biodiesel vs ?) reduces down to where you break your H- bonds...what is the original feedstock for the energy.

For fuel cells, that means how do you produce H2.

For electric, that means how do you generate the electricity that is stored in the battery.

Maybe this technology for producing H2 cheaply from water is why Japan is betting on hydrogen fuel cell cars:
http://www.gizmag.com/***ai-hydrogen-extraction-process/16674/

The US, with all it's coal, will most likely go with the electric car, if at all. The coal fire plants supply electricity to the established (although very inefficient) power grid. Coal is cheap, plentiful and the environmental cost of polluting is externalized (not captured in the price of the electricity it produces). All things being equal, cost wins. And the cost advantage of non-renewables in the US gives power to continue to maintain the status quo (it means traditional energy providers can continue to afford the lawyers and lobbyists) making few incentives for accepting the costs of developing and adopting renewable sources of energy in the US market (at least in the short term with environmental costs externalized).

Japan, however, has no petroleum based resources. Therefore, it has significant incentive (political, economic and existential) to develop and adopt the cheapest, most efficient renewable energy based technologies.

If a technology like the fuel cell is going to be developed to the cost/performance trade-off necessary for market-wide adoption, it will be developed in a market like Japan.

 

[feverDream]

amazing that it takes up the whole undercarriage of the body. and FRIGHTENING that they use a sniffer. I cant imagine what would happen if airbags were deployed...

in 3....2....1...

 

[feverDream]

1 engine per wheel.