Driveline Clunk. I don't like it. (2 Viewers)

[Golgo13]

I managed to get some video today while tinkering in the garage...



For reference I am barely applying any force to turn the rear drive flange. The front flange can't be seen, but it is not moving.
Also, this is my first youtube post! woo!

Turn up the sound and you can hear the clunk/ping.

 

[warezdog]

What were the positions of the center diff and trans? Chalk the tires and put the trans in N and see what it does, then put the Tcase in N and do the same with the trans still in N

 

[Golgo13]

What were the positions of the center diff and trans?

I don't remember off-hand. I'll check at home tonight. I believe it is in Park and High range.

Chalk the tires

I can't. The rear axle/prop shaft are removed. The front wheels are off. Everything is in the air on jackstands.

If I move it a little more than shown in the video, the front prop shaft will turn. I just wanted to show the play in the case.
Is this the play in the center diff?

put the trans in N and see what it does, then put the Tcase in N and do the same with the trans still in N

I'll try this tonight after work and see what happens. If it is interesting, I'll take more video.
Makes me wish I had some dial indicators to measure the lash. I don't know what I would do with that information, but it would be nice to now because I like knowing things like that.

 

[Dave 2000]

A couple of weeks back I replaced both the trans (manual) and the TB, prior to this there was some lash in the system, I had replaced one CV, both front flanges and greased up the UJ's, (don't over pump the sliders as this can cause more problems than it solves). I could invoke the clunk if rolling in first gear and tap the throttle on and off a couple times, the shunt noise was no big deal, there was lash but nothing to write home about. After driving a couple of days with the rebuilt trans I remembered the noise and tried to replicate it...nothing! I would say (until my trans has a few more miles on it) that when all is in good shape then there is no noise, the rebuilt GB/TB/flanges and so forth have left the drivetrain pretty much lash free, I would add that mine DOES have the VC and would be happy to say that helps, how long this lasts for I will let you know.

regards

Dave

 

[jonheld]

If I move it a little more than shown in the video, the front prop shaft will turn. I just wanted to show the play in the case.
Is this the play in the center diff?

Yes, from your description that is the slop within the center diff/transfer case. It doesn't seem excessive to me and would be what I'd expect to find in a differential. There will always be some amount of slop.
To verify, you could lock the center diff and try again. There should be significantly less play with it locked.

 

[TrickyT]

3FE, A440F, and split transfer case. Isn't this exactly the same combination as the FJ62? Those vehicles are subject to excessive wear in the splines of the transmission output shaft. The basic problem is that the drive gear in the transfer case only has about 1" of engagement with the splines on the tranny output shaft, plus it sits high up in the transfer case and doesn't get a ton of oil splashed up there. In extreme cases the splines sheer off the output shaft and at that point you're basically screwed and need to replace the transmission. There's lots of posts about this in the FJ-60 section. Just search for "McNamara Gear." That refers to an aftermarket replacement gear that may still be available. There was a Toyota Trails article about this about ten years ago.

 

[jonheld]

3FE, A440F, and split transfer case. Isn't this exactly the same combination as the FJ62?

Not really the same. Different transfer cases and IIRC different output shafts from the transmission.

 

[Golgo13]

@jonheld thanks again for your input. Anytime I search for something related to 91/2 model year I scroll through the thread until I see your response the the OP's question. I don't have much experience working on driveline parts, so I always look to the more experienced guys on here for help.

Thanks again.

 

[jonheld]

The key is to always SOUND like you know what you're talking about Fools them every time.

I've never been THAT deep into my transfer case, but I have done exactly what you did which was to feel how much play exists between the 2 output shafts. I'm sticking with the theory that the "slop" is cumulative within the driveline and that is the reason the FJ80s clunk and why Toyota added a VC to the center diff.

 

[CJF]

3FE, A440F, and split transfer case. Isn't this exactly the same combination as the FJ62? Those vehicles are subject to excessive wear in the splines of the transmission output shaft. The basic problem is that the drive gear in the transfer case only has about 1" of engagement with the splines on the tranny output shaft, plus it sits high up in the transfer case and doesn't get a ton of oil splashed up there. In extreme cases the splines sheer off the output shaft and at that point you're basically screwed and need to replace the transmission. There's lots of posts about this in the FJ-60 section. Just search for "McNamara Gear." That refers to an aftermarket replacement gear that may still be available. There was a Toyota Trails article about this about ten years ago.

I'm well aware of this issue on 62's from the old 3FE email list, but have never heard of a single case on a 91-92 80 series.

 

[warezdog]

I just said chalk the tires to keep the thing from rolling when you're under it.

You said the front output turns too when you turn the rear?

Can you hold the front and try turning the rear? It should move, although with some effort, if not the VC is most likely frozen.

I went part time because my VC was toast and replacing it didn't make sense, for half that cost you can spool and go with locking hubs, overall I'm happy with the PT conversion.

 

[TrickyT]

Not really the same. Different transfer cases and IIRC different output shafts from the transmission.

Yeah, if I had thought a little more that would have been obvious. The HF2A transfer case on the FJ80 is not a split case and doesn't have a power take off gear, so completely different input shaft and gear. Sorry for the misdirection.

 

[jonheld]

I just said chalk the tires to keep the thing from rolling when you're under it.

You said the front output turns too when you turn the rear?

Can you hold the front and try turning the rear? It should move, although with some effort, if not the VC is most likely frozen.

I went part time because my VC was toast and replacing it didn't make sense, for half that cost you can spool and go with locking hubs, overall I'm happy with the PT conversion.

He's got an FJ80, not FZJ80. No VC in the transfer case.

 

[warezdog]

He's got an FJ80, not FZJ80. No VC in the transfer case.

Sorry bout that, my old eyes are failing me, I completely missed that.

 

[Aggiesdm]

Golgo, any update on this? I'm fighting this same battle right now. I'm ok with just lessening my clunk at this point. It's become pretty bad

 

[Dave 2000]

Never thought about it before but I had some clunk in my driveline, I had already replaced drive flanges/Birf and it was not really reduced and I like pretty much everyone else put it down to general wear in the drive train, if you like an accumulation of slack due to wear. My clonk had not got worse when I started to experience the strange braking effect that my 80 was experiencing, I will not repeat hers but it is in the last few posts of my LC 80 thread, link in sig.

The long and the short of it was the transfer box was close to failing, I ended up with a nasty grating noise and occasional loss of all drive, eventually all drive was lost, the result was a mess inside the planet gears of the TB.

Replacement of the GB (knackered synchros) and the TB has silenced my driveline, even if I am aggressive and hit the throttle on/off repeatedly...nothing!

regards

Dave

 

[Golgo13]

@Aggiesdm Sorry, but I haven't put any time into this in a while. We have had temps under 25degrees and I don't like being cold. A torpedo heater is OK for general stuff, but when you have to lay under the cruiser to do anything, that ground is COLD.

My "clunk" includes a ringing sound like a bullet hitting a hard steel plate. It is the same frequency as the sound in the video above. Because of that I don't think this is a drive-flange issue. Just going off the sound I get from playing with the output of the transfer case, I have a feeling that is where the majority of the play is. I have a feeling there will be some worn gears or splines in there.

I won't know for sure until I drop the T-Case and I'm just not ready to do that until it warms up a bit more. I'm removing the front axle/drive shaft today(its 30 degrees). After that I'm going to fiddle with the t-case and see if I still get the noise. That will isolate it to either the front axle(if he sound goes away) or the t-case(if it is still there).

 

[Dave 2000]

Just seen your video of the diff play, and that is less than mine.

regards

Dave

 

[landtoy80]

<<<My "clunk" includes a ringing sound like a bullet hitting a hard steel plate.>>>
I have same ring. I thought it was the slack in my front diff. I rebuilt my diff at 215,000 mi and it leaked at the pinion seal. Had to replace it couples times before I replaced the flange so there is lots of slop in the front diff now. I assume its from re-torquing so many times that the crush sleeve is out of spec. But maybe my ring noise is not from that??? I like the bullet hitting steel plate, that describes it well.

My t-case was replaced a couple times with new ones so it shouldn't have much more than 200,000 miles or so.

My birfield seals leak grease into the axle so the gear oil is very thick. I would assume that with the heavy grease/oil combo that there shouldn't be anything in the front diff that would make a ringing noise. You would think that the oil would muffle the ringing.

My clunk is getting worse too. As I said, I assumed the worsening clunk was from the front diff and thought of pulling it and replacing the crush sleeve but now I think the clunk ring might be elsewhere.

 

[landtoy80]

There is a lot going on in the t-case/center diff. Lots of places for slop.
First its a differential so there is free play there. Slop 1
Its also works as a t-case when you lock it in. A sleeve moves and locks out the
diff so its now a t-case. Slop 2
The front and rear out put shafts slide on to a gear. Slop 3
Viscus coupler, not much slop there but there is a gear there. Slop 3.5
Free play from the input shaft. Slop 4.5

Try locking the center diff and see if the noise changes. If so then Slop -1