Not sure if everyone else trolls there, too. Big winner is the Cooper Discoverer A/T3. I may have to think outside of the BFG box. http://expeditionportal.com/where-the-rubber-meets-the-road/.
Tire Review over at Expedition Portal (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Weeniewheeler
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Mike6158
Random Pixel Generator
Cons:
Lacks three-ply sidewall
Not liking that too much. The tread design looks like car tread.
Lacks three-ply sidewall
Not liking that too much. The tread design looks like car tread.
I have a set both Cooper and BFG - BFG are very durable but very very noisy and hard on the freeway mounted on 16", Cooper is very quite and soft mounter on 20" , both of them are not good on the snow, I think BFG have kevlar not sure.
you gonna like Cooper much better over BFG
Good review.
Thanks for posting the link.
I do wish they would have included other popular tires like the Terra Grappler and Duratrac.
Thanks for posting the link.
I do wish they would have included other popular tires like the Terra Grappler and Duratrac.
So, testing the designed in 1989 BFG KO with the recently designed Cooper A/T3. May as well compare a 1990 Camry to the new Honda Accord...
Test the new KO2 to the new A/TW and make it a fair comparison with the latest current tire models. Both of these models are new to the market and have the latest in tire technology...for more off-road use, I'd choose the KO2 and for more on-road, the A/TW. (oh wait, those choices ARE made and will be installed soon...)
We've got A/T3's on the GX470 currently and they wear like iron. IMO, almost TOO hard for offroad use, but they've served us well in Colorado. Ride is great, noise is "getting there" after 18 months, but I failed to rotate on my last oil change...the A/TW's will be on soon, and while their treadlife is "a little" less due to the snowflake rating, they should be great all year tires.
I've got BFG AT KO's on my FZJ80...the outer lugs are chunking after 6 months and I did kill a sidewall in SoDak. However, the new KO2 has FAR better sidewalls (identical to what is on the race KR2) and their new tread design improvements too. Zero complaints onroad, and two of mine aren't even balanced.
Speaking of which, the KR2's on the Canguro 200-series had a cut right front sidewall at Rice and Beans during the Baja 1000 (checkpoint 5)...opted NOT to change and they finished the race. I was beyond impressed that the tire wasn't junk...
Test the new KO2 to the new A/TW and make it a fair comparison with the latest current tire models. Both of these models are new to the market and have the latest in tire technology...for more off-road use, I'd choose the KO2 and for more on-road, the A/TW. (oh wait, those choices ARE made and will be installed soon...)
We've got A/T3's on the GX470 currently and they wear like iron. IMO, almost TOO hard for offroad use, but they've served us well in Colorado. Ride is great, noise is "getting there" after 18 months, but I failed to rotate on my last oil change...the A/TW's will be on soon, and while their treadlife is "a little" less due to the snowflake rating, they should be great all year tires.
I've got BFG AT KO's on my FZJ80...the outer lugs are chunking after 6 months and I did kill a sidewall in SoDak. However, the new KO2 has FAR better sidewalls (identical to what is on the race KR2) and their new tread design improvements too. Zero complaints onroad, and two of mine aren't even balanced.
Speaking of which, the KR2's on the Canguro 200-series had a cut right front sidewall at Rice and Beans during the Baja 1000 (checkpoint 5)...opted NOT to change and they finished the race. I was beyond impressed that the tire wasn't junk...
mcgaskins
SILVER Star
I'm truly shocked they didn't include the Duratracs. The last trail run I did with 9 trucks, 8 of them were running DTs. In Moab on one run, 12 of 15 trucks were running DTs. In my family, we have DTs on my 100, my parents 4runner, my sister's JKU, and my bro in laws JGC. Seriously it's the most ubiquitous tire in Colorado and they skipped it?! I don't post comments often on articles but I had to post this one on their site:
Here in Colorado I would say easily over 60% of the trucks I see on the trail are running Duratracs - Land Cruisers, Tacomas, Wranglers, even full size trucks. I'm quite shocked it wasn't included in this comparison as I think the main tires most guys are considering right now for trail, daily driver, snow, do-it-all tires are the Duratracs, Toyo AT2, BFG AT and General Grabbers.
I really appreciate the in depth analysis and methodology used here, but I think in terms of real world choices the Duratrac most definitely should have been included. Maybe when the new BFG AT KO2 has been tested for a time you can update the review with that new tire and add in the Duratrac? I know the majority of guys I wheel with are extremely interested in an all terrain that can rock in the snow too when heading up to ski, which is one of the areas I think the Duratracs excel in and imagine the new BFG tire will as well.
Here in Colorado I would say easily over 60% of the trucks I see on the trail are running Duratracs - Land Cruisers, Tacomas, Wranglers, even full size trucks. I'm quite shocked it wasn't included in this comparison as I think the main tires most guys are considering right now for trail, daily driver, snow, do-it-all tires are the Duratracs, Toyo AT2, BFG AT and General Grabbers.
I really appreciate the in depth analysis and methodology used here, but I think in terms of real world choices the Duratrac most definitely should have been included. Maybe when the new BFG AT KO2 has been tested for a time you can update the review with that new tire and add in the Duratrac? I know the majority of guys I wheel with are extremely interested in an all terrain that can rock in the snow too when heading up to ski, which is one of the areas I think the Duratracs excel in and imagine the new BFG tire will as well.
The new KO2 is snowflake rated, as is the new A/TW.
And while I'm not surprised the latest Nitto wasn't included (too new) it is surprising the Duratrac wasn't...I know quite a few people with them, most happy. (tho a few are noting increased road noise as they wear, but that's not uncommon for any tire)
And while I'm not surprised the latest Nitto wasn't included (too new) it is surprising the Duratrac wasn't...I know quite a few people with them, most happy. (tho a few are noting increased road noise as they wear, but that's not uncommon for any tire)
mcgaskins
SILVER Star
Ya I really think the new BFG will be my next tire - maybe even in the next month or so. My DTs have been great, but driving 4-5 people in my truck up to the ski resorts I like to have fresh and excellent rubber for safety. I've had my DTs for 2 years and they've been excellent and have barely worn, but I just like new tires! The only downsides to the DTs I've heard about is weak sidewalls on heavier trucks. I've read a few people complain about sidewall failures, but I've not seen it first hand in some tough trail runs.
mcgaskins - I'm not trying to start anything but you are pushing the internet rumor fallacy about Duratracs and weak sidewalls. You've "heard", can you point to anything that indicates this is actually true? As you said no first hand accounts. You've had them for two years - how many sidewalls have you damaged?
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mcgaskins
SILVER Star
For me personally they've been great which is what I stated. However in my local club I wheel with (Rising Sun) there have been NUMEROUS sidewall failures, and several people have had multiple sidewall failures on their rigs. I'm not perpetuating an internet rumor or pulling sources from some full size Chevy forum where you can barely understand what they're trying to say, these are the guys I hang out with and wheel with and respect quite a bit.
There seems to be 2 camps of Duratrac users. Those who have them, have never had a failure and thus love them (I'm in this camp), or the ones who had them, loved them, had a failure or two or three and refuse to run them any more. If I was truly scared myself I would have already changed the tires, but I've had great luck with them in an amazingly varied assortment of conditions - sharp rocks, smooth Moab rocks, broken shale, hard packed snow and ice, fluffy unplowed snow, towing a trailer through snow, one the highway at 80mph for 5 hours, etc.
Here's one of the threads where people are complaining about them and some excerpts. Like I said, these are guys I know and wheel with.
"Score another one (failure) for the Duratracs.. this one from yesterday's SNR prerun. I think that makes 3 in just over a year from this club? In case anyone's keeping track.."
"They are crazy thin (sidewalls). Like 3-4mm from memory. It's been a while since mine got mounted. But it's definitely the most flexible sidewall I've ever felt on a tire. Including passenger car tires. It's literally like a downhill MTB tire."
"If I were just going skiing and to the mall, there's no question I'd keep running the Duratracs.. hands down best I-70 tire I've ever run. Not so good in sharp rocks."
"I think I've personally seen two sidewall cuts this year on Dave Kaiser's 80 alone"
"Geez, really? So that's..
Tim 2
Dave 2
Bruce 1
Ok, no longer going to endorse these to anyone who actually wants to drive on rocks."
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=20191&highlight=duratrac&page=6
My experience is similar to yours - and I've beat these hard. You are the first person I've challenged to show some kind of anecdotal evidence of cut Duratracs... now we need to correlate the statistics of other tires to see if the fail rate is greater
Obviously any tire cuts cut from time to time so the occasional fail I'm not concerned about. Any insight to which Duratracs these guys were running, as in 2 ply versus 3 ply sidewall?
[EDIT] Of course more DT users chime in that thread with no problem... including a former BFG user. So maybe the reports are highlighted but no more than any other brand.
Obviously any tire cuts cut from time to time so the occasional fail I'm not concerned about. Any insight to which Duratracs these guys were running, as in 2 ply versus 3 ply sidewall?
[EDIT] Of course more DT users chime in that thread with no problem... including a former BFG user. So maybe the reports are highlighted but no more than any other brand.
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mcgaskins
SILVER Star
I've been pretty hard on mine too and have had great luck with them, and to be honest I really like them. My number one concern with tires is safety, and when I pack my truck full of people I love and set out on roads that are icy and snow packed, I feel really good about these tires. When we get done with skiing and head back to Denver, I'm often the only person in the truck awake because they all trust me to bring them home safely, and I have to trust my equipment to the do the job.
All that said, I get extremely tired of people saying that the weak sidewall issues are all fallacy and internet rumor when several of my buddies that I wheel with won't run them any more because of multiple failures (on rig setups extremely similar to mine I might add). Who knows if it was a bad batch, wrong PSI, something that would have caused any tire to go flat, bad luck, etc. but I'm speaking on behalf of true users in the environment I wheel in on the same trails I run. As far as I'm aware, they're all running E load rating 285/75/16 or 315/75/16 tires which "rated 3 ply" which aren't actually 3 ply.
No matter how you slice it the Duratracs are one of the absolute best tires on the market. The county trucks you see driving over Vail Pass (one of the snowiest places on I-70) use studded Duratracs, and I would venture to say the tire also has a majority share in recreational off road usage. I think was extremely tone deaf of EP to not test the tires against the other ones they did test - GY Wrangler AT Adventure over the Duratrac?? Come on that's ridiculous I didn't even know that other tire existed! I think these tests would be better served to survey the top 5 tires people actually use or want to buy instead of whatever method they choose here. I think the vast majority here and in the overlanding crowd are interested in the Duratracs, the new BFG AT KO2, Toyo AT2 Extreme, General Grabber AT2 and maybe the Nitto Terra Grappler.
All that said, I get extremely tired of people saying that the weak sidewall issues are all fallacy and internet rumor when several of my buddies that I wheel with won't run them any more because of multiple failures (on rig setups extremely similar to mine I might add). Who knows if it was a bad batch, wrong PSI, something that would have caused any tire to go flat, bad luck, etc. but I'm speaking on behalf of true users in the environment I wheel in on the same trails I run. As far as I'm aware, they're all running E load rating 285/75/16 or 315/75/16 tires which "rated 3 ply" which aren't actually 3 ply.
No matter how you slice it the Duratracs are one of the absolute best tires on the market. The county trucks you see driving over Vail Pass (one of the snowiest places on I-70) use studded Duratracs, and I would venture to say the tire also has a majority share in recreational off road usage. I think was extremely tone deaf of EP to not test the tires against the other ones they did test - GY Wrangler AT Adventure over the Duratrac?? Come on that's ridiculous I didn't even know that other tire existed! I think these tests would be better served to survey the top 5 tires people actually use or want to buy instead of whatever method they choose here. I think the vast majority here and in the overlanding crowd are interested in the Duratracs, the new BFG AT KO2, Toyo AT2 Extreme, General Grabber AT2 and maybe the Nitto Terra Grappler.
The 4 I want added are the BFG AT/KO2 (which admittedly was released after they did their test), Cooper ST/Maxx, Goodyear Duratrac, and the Toyo R/T (also new since they tested). At least they have said they are working on the KO2.
mcgaskins
SILVER Star
I like those two additional ones as well but I know little about their snow traction. I think it's key for any good AT to be great in the snow, so if they are I'd be all about seeing a comparison.
gregnash
Anal Retentive Analyst
They actually did a review if the S/T Maxx. I am very happy with mine so far and even my buddy commented that he thought they would be loud but could not hear them at all on the highway/road.
Sounds like mall crawler tires. No thanks.
I loved my Duratracs until I sliced 2 sidewalls on one trip down the McGrew Trail in So. OR. I now run Faulken Wild Peaks and I'm surprised that more people aren't checking these tires out. My only complaint so far is the looks. Other than that, I don't miss my Duratracs at all!
