I have pulled apart my steering knuckles to replace the trunnions, and the shims are unusable. I have tossed the other shims, before i knew i had to know what the thickness was, before i rebuilt them.Is there any way to correctly shim it without buying the $300+ tool from OTC? Or would it be more worth it to put it together and drive it down to a shop that could do it correctly?
Steering knuckle shimming (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter acerock
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My Toyota dealership will not sell it to me. Stating, its only for our techs. Marlin has one, almost 400 and OTC makes one, again almost 400. I think i will go the other way and have a competent shop do it. I dont want to deal with the loaning, it seems like the only tools i break arent mine.
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You can figure it out with a $10 fish weighing scale or anything similar.
It has been a while since I did a 60 but not long ago I did a SFA Nissan. They are all the same really.
Put your caps on the knuckle without shims. Tighten them down until you have the required turning force of (IIRC) about 18ftlbs. Take a feeler gauge and stick it in there between the cap and the seat on the top of the knuckle. Determine how thick of shims you need. Stack shims until you are right in there on the specs you just took, I use calipers on the stack of shims to make sure they are where I want to be. Install shims, check again for turning force. If within specs, done.
Super easy really.
Cheers
It has been a while since I did a 60 but not long ago I did a SFA Nissan. They are all the same really.
Put your caps on the knuckle without shims. Tighten them down until you have the required turning force of (IIRC) about 18ftlbs. Take a feeler gauge and stick it in there between the cap and the seat on the top of the knuckle. Determine how thick of shims you need. Stack shims until you are right in there on the specs you just took, I use calipers on the stack of shims to make sure they are where I want to be. Install shims, check again for turning force. If within specs, done.
Super easy really.
Cheers
Know a machinist who can hook you up? Have him make this:
Dimensions are in mm. The bush goes where the oil seal would, the shaft goes into the bush (giggity), then you guesstimate the knuckle shim thickness needed
1) Install the knuckle (with spindle bolted on)
2) Install and torque the knuckle bearing caps
3) Grab the steering arm and move the knuckle stop to stop several times. This helps the bearing and race "settle" into place
4) Remove knuckle and reinstall with bush and shaft in place
5) Retorque cap retainer nuts
6) Mic the distance between the shaft and the spindle. If it's not even then dismantle the knuckle and either add shims to the "shorter" side (top or bottom) or just move shims from the longer to the shorter side
7) Keep repeating this until you have equal distances top and bottom (ie: the spindle is centered perfectly up and down over the shaft)
8) Torque the bearing cap retainer nuts and check the preload on the bearings. If too low, add equal thickness shims top and bottom until you're in the high range of factory spec (I've learned to go slightly above the upper limit); if too high, remove shims until you're good
It's more time consuming than using the SST, but it'll get you the same end result.
Dimensions are in mm. The bush goes where the oil seal would, the shaft goes into the bush (giggity), then you guesstimate the knuckle shim thickness needed
1) Install the knuckle (with spindle bolted on)
2) Install and torque the knuckle bearing caps
3) Grab the steering arm and move the knuckle stop to stop several times. This helps the bearing and race "settle" into place
4) Remove knuckle and reinstall with bush and shaft in place
5) Retorque cap retainer nuts
6) Mic the distance between the shaft and the spindle. If it's not even then dismantle the knuckle and either add shims to the "shorter" side (top or bottom) or just move shims from the longer to the shorter side
7) Keep repeating this until you have equal distances top and bottom (ie: the spindle is centered perfectly up and down over the shaft)
8) Torque the bearing cap retainer nuts and check the preload on the bearings. If too low, add equal thickness shims top and bottom until you're in the high range of factory spec (I've learned to go slightly above the upper limit); if too high, remove shims until you're good
It's more time consuming than using the SST, but it'll get you the same end result.
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Possibly. I been doing the way I described for years though and never had a problem, probably done over a dozen axles that way. The method on Nissan Patrols is the same, the old 1960's ones. The FSM from Nissan for those says to do it just as I describe above. They have a brass trunion bushing to guide the axle shaft and also a seal. I know the FJ60 FSM from Toyota says to align it with the special tool but again, I have always used the method above and had no issues.
Cheers
Honestly I can't see any actual problems coming from your method either. That's exactly what I was planning to do until I saw this diagram on Pirate in an old thread. I figured if I can get it 100% spot on to the finest measurement it'd be that much longer the inner oil seal will last (even though I got the Marlin seals to go into my axle next time anyway).
ntsqd
technerd
I built something similar to the parts above, it didn't work. It didn't work because there is camber machined into the knuckles, as I discovered after making those parts. Which means that the Birf is always operating at a slight angle, even when going straight. I designed and made my tool because I was wiping out the inner seals way too fast (this was *just* before Marlin came out with his seals) and was concerned that the knuckles weren't where they needed to be and were pushing the inner axle shafts off-center. I bought the tool, but I'll be danged if I know where it is.
Any info on the one you designed? If the camber angle can be matched by a machinist (probably have to be CNC'd to get it just right) on the one I found and a way to keep the shaft part aligned to the spindle can be figured out, that would probably compensate for the camber that the knuckle and spindle assembly sit at when installed.
I've rebuilt two axles with no issues with no special tool. I even had the special tool with me and chose not to use it due to how complicated the process was going to b. Getting close is good enough as the superior Marlin seals will cover any minor slop you left. I don't recommend using OEM seals if you wheel hard or use a lot of washboard fire roads.
My Toyota dealership will not sell it to me. Stating, its only for our techs. Marlin has one, almost 400 and OTC makes one, again almost 400. I think i will go the other way and have a competent shop do it. I dont want to deal with the loaning, it seems like the only tools i break arent mine.
That's crap, the dealership doesn't know what there talking about, I bought a oem sst from a Toyota dealership, took a couple weeks as it was ex Japan, think I paid just over $300 AUD.
ntsqd
technerd
It was essentially the same device except that it indexed directly on the knuckle's spindle locating bore rather than the spindle's bore. I made the indexing plate from polycarb with a steel bolt turned bushing in the center. The shaft had the seal's OD on the end and by sliding it into the cavity you could see and feel how out of alignment the knuckle was with the axle housing. It took me a while playing with it to realize why it wasn't working. I dimly recall posting something about it years ago when I first made it. That post or posts are likely in the live axle Mini-truck section somewhere.
I finally got around to doing my knuckles and your method for finding the shim thickness is indeed much quicker and easier than I would have expected. I'm curious though; how are you determining the center point to avoid putting extra strain on the inner oil seal? I did get the Marlin seals (these things are niiiiice), but I figure why not at least reduce the strain as best I can anyway, for the sake of retaining as much longevity as possible.
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I am not. I learned on older trucks that had no way of finding it, no special tools, ect ect. So I don't do it. Perhaps I should but the majority of trucks I work on are way old and were not meant to check the center point. In fact most of them don't even have an inner axle seal, they have a trunnion bushing.
So, don't take my advice or method as the best way. It is simply my way. If I was rebuilding FJ60 axles for customers all the time, yes I would get the tools and do the extra step to find the center point. But because I am not, I don't. Never had an issue with it though on FJ60s, 1980's Patrols or older trucks. Again, the majority of trucks I work on are older 1960's & 70's trucks.
Cheers
