Fj62 A440F Fluid Mystery (1 Viewer)

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Joined
Apr 20, 2014
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Location
Royal Palm Beach, Florida
Hello all!

I have been lurking the forums for a while now, and now I finally have something to post.

My grandparents own a (soon to be mine once we trade,) completely stock 1989 FJ62. This thing has been pretty much babied and taken care of (for the most part,) all of its life. No towing, garage-kept, and a daily driver. It has about 154k on the Odometer right now, and they are the original owners. However, the car is leaking some sort of oil, which has always been presumed as regular motor oil. More on this later.

Recently, my Grandmother has mentioned that the transmission seemed to be (as she described it,) "hesitating." Knowing the problems the A440F has, this had me worried.

My dad and I borrowed the truck to move some stuff, nothing heavy in particular, just too large to fit in our vehicles. From a cold start it was clear that the tranny was slipping. If I remembered correctly, it was slipping mostly between 2nd and 3rd gear. After warming up, the slipping seemed to subside. After pulling into our driveway, we pulled the dipstick, and boy was it low... We had been driving for maybe 15 mins or so and the level was in the middle of the "cold" section on the stick (this is in south Florida btw.) The fluid itself seemed to be red and not burnt. When questioned, my grandfather says that he "never" checks the ATF fluid, meaning that it was probably checked a few years ago.

So, after adding about .5 - .75 quarts (that was all we had laying around,) of dextron II into it,it still wasn't where it needed to be, but it was better. A few days later I went by their house and test-drove it, and it didn't seem to be that bad this time. But it still needed fluid, so I put another whole quart in, and that got it where it needed to be.

Now, here's the fun part: Before I drove it the second time, I pulled the dipstick when it was cold, and it seemed to show that it was in the "hot" zone. Again, this is when the truck was cold. After driving it around and checking it again while hot and running, the fluid was back near the "cold" zone. So, I went ahead and added the quart, which put it near the top of the "hot" zone.

Just today my dad checked it while it was cold, and said that the level, was "way past the hot zone." He said he didn't check it while it was hot, as for some reason today it didn't start (but that's a different mystery, I believe the battery was dead, don't know why yet.) He did also mention that he looked under the car and saw droplets hanging from the front bell housing seal, as well as the drip pan. This leads me to believe that the oil leak may be partly coming from the transmission as well.

The fluid level thing has me completely stumped though, any insight as to why this may happen? Any idea on what kind of damage (if any,) may have come about from driving it with low ATF fluid for who knows how long? My grandfather was planning on taking it to the dealer paying $$$ to get the leak fixed (we were thinking bottom end was going to get looked at,) but it is possible that the transmission may need some new seals as well?

Thanks for any help offered,


Sam
 
You must read and follow the owners manual for checking transmission fluid level. Check the trans. fluid with the transmission HOT and the vehicle IDLING IN PARK. Any other method of checking the transmission fluid level is unreliable. Also, while the truck is running, shift through the gears and then back into Park, before checking the level.

So, go drive the truck for 20-30 min, get the trans hot, and follow these instructions. The engine temperature gauge, BTW, is no indication of whether the trans. is hot. To see if the trans is hot, see if you can burn your fingertips on the tip of the dipstick, or aim a infra-red temp gauge at the bottom of the transmission pan. 'Hot' would be ~160-200 degrees F. If you can squeeze the freshly-pulled dipstick with your finger and thumb and not burn yourself, it's not fully hot.
 
You must read and follow the owners manual for checking transmission fluid level. Check the trans. fluid with the transmission HOT and the vehicle IDLING IN PARK. Any other method of checking the transmission fluid level is unreliable. Also, while the truck is running, shift through the gears and then back into Park, before checking the level.

So, go drive the truck for 20-30 min, get the trans hot, and follow these instructions. The engine temperature gauge, BTW, is no indication of whether the trans. is hot. To see if the trans is hot, see if you can burn your fingertips on the tip of the dipstick, or aim a infra-red temp gauge at the bottom of the transmission pan. 'Hot' would be ~160-200 degrees F. If you can squeeze the freshly-pulled dipstick with your finger and thumb and not burn yourself, it's not fully hot.

We had been driving it for about 15-20 minutes or so, with some idling in between for a total of about 7 miles and driving at about 40 MPH before we actually checked it. That is when it was showing a reading in the cold zone. I just checked it when the engine was cold for giggles the second time and it showing that it was high for being cold is what made me curious. But I do know the manual says to check it when it hot, so that is what we did.
 
Have you adjusted the kick down cable?

It's attached to the spool at the throttle body at the top of the engine. It has 2 cables, one that goes to the gas pedal and the other that goes to the transmission. Do a search for adjustment help, it's been written up many times here. It's probably the biggest (and cheapest) improvement you can make to your trucks driveability.

Bill
 
I hope I didn't sound too nasty - it just wasn't clear from your original posting that you were following the protocol for checking it. ATF expands quite a bit, so that's why checking it hot matters so much.
 
I would suggest while the vehicle is cold run it for a minute or two before checking the level. The first time I changed ATF fluid in my 89 I notice the two magnets that are suppose to be in the pan were MIA. I left the pan off while waiting for the dealer to get the correct magnets ordered. During this time the fluid continued to drain in to the pan. Not sure if it's from the torque converter or what. While sitting off more fluid may be draining into the pan and would explain why it higher cold. Once started the fluid is back up in the transmission. While my transmission doesn't slip it does seem to take a minute to get going sometimes. I really need to do a Rodney flush but my 62 is semi retired and rarely gets driven. For me just shifting it thru all the gears a few times before driving does the trick. Continuing to add AFT when your not sure where it is going is something I won't do. I bought my 89 back in July 1993. When I base lined the fluids I found ATF in the transfer case. But it wasn't a leak between the transmission and transfer but a dealer screw up. No ATF in the transfer since. Just to be safe it wouldn't hurt to check the fluid in the transfer case. You will find the drain and fill plugs to be a very shallow nut on the transfer case and diffs. Toyota sells a Allen style replacement which is what I'm switching. My back diff fill is a real pain to get off and not draining the diff until I get the fill plug out.
 
Hi all, sorry to abandon this thread for so long, but I just wanted to provide some closure.

While the 62 was at the dealer for the new alternator, the mechanic drove it and said that he didn't notice anything abnormal with the transmission shifting, other than the occasional hard shift, which is normal. This seems to hold true for every time that I have driven their car since, including today. Drove it today for probably 25 miles or so total, all city and stop and go, and it was as smooth as could be.

As for the fluid level being higher when the engine is cold, and then lower when it is hot, we believe that it may be that the fluid drains into the pan when the Cruiser has been sitting for a while. So when it would sit, all the fluid would just come into the pan, making it appear higher. When it would run, the fluid would move up into the tranny, making the level appear lower. Again, just our theory.
 
You always check the fluid while the engine is running. Also, if you see ATF on the stick, and add a quart, you've added to much.
 
FJSammy - yes, the torque converter drains back into the pan when the engine is off, which is why the fluid level is high when you check it that way. If you suspect it was driven quite a bit while slipping with low fluid, you should change the fluid (eventually). If you suspect a pan gasket leak, then pull the pan, clean the screen and replace the pan gasket and you may fix that problem, too.
 
You need to drain a quart out (this'll give you a chance to see the state of the oil) and then do just what people have been suggesting. Drive it until transmission is fully warm (20 mins should do it) and then check it with the engine running. It's been a while but I think the difference between cold and hot marks is 1 pint of fluid. These trannys are sensitive to fluid level. If the fluid you drain out is dark or burnt, read up on doing a passive flush (search Rodney flush), it's messy but not difficult. Once the fluid level is correct, move on to adjusting the throttle and accelerator (kick down) cables. You'll be in good shape after that.

Bill
 

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