3B Death Rattle (1 Viewer)

[seatosummit]

Hi All-

Here is the scoop: Final leg of a long drive home to Southern California, after a winter out in Wyoming. Made it some 1200 miles, without a hiccup. Cruising down 101 South at about 63 MPH (where the truck sits comfortably with 33s), and lose power. Push in clutch, attempt to restart, won't turn over.

I manage to pullover after coasting for some time (fortunately at the only exit for many miles in either direction). Open the hood, expecting to find an obvious culprit--like a sheared alternator bracket--only to see nothing out of the ordinary. Check my fluid levels; find them as they were at the start of the trip.

Attempt to start the truck again, and get a really rough start, followed by awful knocking noise and violent thrashing in the engine bay. Before I can pull my manual shutoff the vehicle shuts itself down. At this point, I am fearing the worst, and having read about dropped pre-cups and broken crankshafts, I figure I am best not attempting to start without a mechanic taking a look.

Like I said, I was in the middle of no where, though, so wasn't as easy as just calling some one up. Got the truck, myself and my dog, all towed back to Santa Barbara.

It is now sitting on my street and need some recommendations from you all.

Although I really didn't want to, I started it up and took a video, linked below:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/60bz9qi2l27gjz3/VID_20140418_123558.mp4

NOTE: when it dies at the end of the video, thats because I have let off the accelerator. Out of the rear, there is white smoke pouring out of the exhaust.

Just for background, it is an '83 3B with something like 180,--- miles on it. Haven't had the compression numbers checked in some time, although I have been experiencing some higher than normal blow-by, and the periodic rough start with white smoke (not at altitude, and in warm weather).

Haven't had anyone look at it yet, because of limitations with towing through the weekend.

Any advice about next steps would be great.

Thanks,

Austin

 

[seatosummit]

By the way, in the video, the oil filler cap was loosened before starting to check for excessive blow by. As you can see it blew it off before I was able to get the camera on it...

 

[cruisernerd]

It won't be fun but drain your oil and look for metal. Good luck.

 

[cruisernerd]

If it is a pre cup I doubt the engine will turn over unless the is a hole in the piston.

 

[seatosummit]

It won't be fun but drain your oil and look for metal. Good luck.

I am planning on draining oil this weekend. Should I filter to look for metal, or will the magnetized plug collect any would-be metal?

If it is a pre cup I doubt the engine will turn over unless the is a hole in the piston.

It certainly turns over. Just spews white smoke, shakes like its apt to jump out of the engine bay, and shuts off if you let off of the accelerator.

Thanks for the reply!

A

 

[cruisernerd]

The pistons are aluminium. So won't stick to the plug. I'm sure someone who knows more than me will chime in on other things to check. I wonder if you can pull your glow plugs an pressure test your cylinders with compressed air. Would probably require pulling valve cover and rocker assembly to make sure the valves are closed.
I am sure there other things to check first. Bad fuel? Injector? Is there any blow by from the crank case vent?

 

[cruisernerd]

I worked on a boat that got sea water in the fuel tank. It made the weirdest sounds I ever heard from an engine before taking out the injector pump. Don't assume the worst until you exhaust all other possibilities

 

[cruisernerd]

Might be worth loosening the fuel lines at the injector and priming with the hand pump to see what comes out.

 

[whitey45]

First thing i would do is a compression check, if ok then probably not a mechanical issue. Dont waste any more time until the compression is checked, this will give you a good check as to the health of the 3b! Good luck

 

[cruisernerd]

The problem is you have to turn the engine over to compression check. Which would do more damage if something serious happened making it worse. I wouldn't turn it over under any circumstances. I would pull the head before of was willing to do that myself.

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

I don't think you need to test the compression on an engine that shakes and knocks like that and pours white smoke out the pipe. Something is very wrong. If I had to guess, you dropped a cup, which smashed a Piston and ruined the head and you are now running very poorly on 3 cylinders.
Sorry to be so negative. I think you need to pull the head to see the whole extent of the problem.

 

[whitey45]

If something is wrong the damage is done? I certainly wouldnt pull anything apart until properly diagnosed!

 

[FF LC FREAK]

I agree with the compression test. You gotta start somewhere. The engine just ran for about 12 seconds in the video. A few more seconds of cranking (not running!) isn't going to do much more damage. Also, drain the oil and look for metal. Depending on what you find, you can dig more into it (i.e. pulling the oil pan and possibly the head).

Good luck!

 

[cruiser_guy]

I agree with the compression test. You gotta start somewhere. The engine just ran for about 12 seconds in the video. A few more seconds of cranking (not running!) isn't going to do much more damage. Also, drain the oil and look for metal. Depending on what you find, you can dig more into it (i.e. pulling the oil pan and possibly the head).

Good luck!

I agree as well.

12 seconds of running and I'm sure if you were going to break something you've already done so. Do a compression test. You'll likely get crappy numbers on at least one cylinder. You've probably broken into the water jacket thus the clouds of white smoke/steam.

It seems to me that the 3B likes to go out with a bang. I've probably driven a 3B powered rig (not all the same one) for 1,000,000 kms and I've lost one precup and shattered a piston and those are the only times the 3B has left me on the side of the road needing a tow!

 

[cruisernerd]

Well at least manually have the fuel off so it can't try to run. Too bad you couldn't scope the cylinders thru the injector ports...

 

[seatosummit]

Hi all-

Thanks for the advice.

I will get started on a compression test, with the fuel shut off.

Assuming I get bad numbers on one (+) cylinders, and it thereby is likely a mechanical issue, should I pull the head? Inspect for top-end damage?

I'll keep y'all posted.

Thanks.

A

 

[cruiser_guy]

I will get started on a compression test, with the fuel shut off.

Assuming I get bad numbers on one (+) cylinders, and it thereby is likely a mechanical issue, should I pull the head? Inspect for top-end damage

I'd pull all the glow plugs so none of the adjoining cylinders can fire. No glow plugs = no compression = no fire.

You'll likely be pulling the head and the oil pan to see what's going on. I doubt it will be pretty.

 

[alberta mac]

1, check the oil fluid level
2, drain off your water separator located under drivers seat on frame, check to make sure the fuel filter is on tight, and hoses, look for wear on those hoses where air can get in.
3, pull the push rod arm off your edic shut off then start the motor and see if it is experiencing the same.
If you are still experiencing the same after the above then do the comp test.
Cheers

 

[seatosummit]

Hi All,

So I don't have a compression tester capable of measuring diesel pressures, so I have been doing some other tests until I manage to get my hands on one.

Things I have looked at thus far: 1) pulled valve cover and looked at rocker arm/valves; 2) pulled injectors and inspected 3) pulled glow plugs and inspected

1. Pulled valve cover:
   • Things looked good mechanically. Nothing overtly destroyed or loose. I will say that it was an oily mess. Having never pulled a valve cover before, I can't say if this is abnormal (photo)
   • The tops of the pre-cups all looked intact and crack-free. While I realize the entire unit doesn't drop in the event of a dropped cup, it was still a little reassuring.
   • 
2. Pulled injectors:
   • Injectors all had carbon deposits on them. Injector at cylinder 3 (from the front) had odd residue, that looked different than the carbon on other injectors. Also, it had a red hue to it.
3. Pulled Glow Plugs:
   • Plugs had carbon deposits as well
   • Plug for cylinder 3 (from the front) had flakes of what I am assuming is aluminum. AND it has been bent! (see photos)
   • 
     

1, check the oil fluid level
2, drain off your water separator located under drivers seat on frame, check to make sure the fuel filter is on tight, and hoses, look for wear on those hoses where air can get in.
3, pull the push rod arm off your edic shut off then start the motor and see if it is experiencing the same.
If you are still experiencing the same after the above then do the comp test.
Cheers

1. Oil fluid level both looks good, and is free of milky residue
2. I have bled the system using valve on the filter mount
3. I will try turning over with fuel arm in off position, after I reassemble.

So, now that it looks as though there is likely something getting chomped up in cylinder 3, should i try to extract what I can? Or am I just wasting my time? If yes on the extract, how should I go about that?

Thanks, guys for all the support.

Austin

 

[Estancio]

...forgive my ignorance, but how did you get a view of the pre-cups?