Electrical Gremlin Part 1 starts now... (1 Viewer)

[baldilocks]

Many here have spent literally weeks or even months figuring out a electrical problem. I would bet that the cruiser is fine and the problem will be something that makes you roll your eyes.

 

[Red Merle]

Many here have spent literally weeks or even months figuring out a electrical problem. I would bet that the cruiser is fine and the problem will be something that makes you roll your eyes.

I am not giving up yet. I went and picked up a mulit-meter. I will teach myself how to use it and hopefully do a little more troubleshooting this weekend before I give in and take it somewhere. I agree that it has to be something simple since everything konked out at once.

I am going to start with the alternator. Now that I think about it, it may be that. When I bought the truck, the people I bought it from had taken it out of storage and the battery was dead after sitting for six weeks while I painted their house as part of the deal. I thought the battery was going since it was 8 years old, but given the recent developments, it's possible the alternator was going. I do note that the lights would dim at idle and this could be a continuation of that failure. The only thing I am worried about was my dumb move of patching one of the fusible link wires on the old unit with a piece of 10 gauge wire. I only ran the truck with that in it for a few seconds and it appeared clean and didn't look as if it had heated up during that time.

It seems like some of the fuses for the stuff that doesn't work now would have popped though if I over loaded it with that wire. Right?

 

[pengfinn]

I am not giving up yet. I went and picked up a mulit-meter. I will teach myself how to use it and hopefully do a little more troubleshooting this weekend before I give in and take it somewhere. I agree that it has to be something simple since everything konked out at once.

I had a similar issue. There is a relay in the driver side kick panel, iirc it was top row, center relay. When that went out, i also blew a fuse. Once I replaced that, as well as the fuse, my dash and fan began working again. Just something to check on.

 

[Red Merle]

I had a similar issue. There is a relay in the driver side kick panel, iirc it was top row, center relay. When that went out, i also blew a fuse. Once I replaced that, as well as the fuse, my dash and fan began working again. Just something to check on.

I will check that too. Can I check if the relays are blown with the multimeter?

 

[baldilocks]

I wonders why you replaced the battery in the first place. Also, check you grounds between the engine the body and the frame and battery to engine block.
The only time the fusible link needs to be a fusible link is in the event current draw on the system gets way to high. They are like a fuse with some patients, so, no I don't think yiu damaged anything with your patch wire.
Have you verified alternator output yet?

 

[pengfinn]

I will check that too. Can I check if the relays are blown with the multimeter?

I mean technically, although I can't imagine a good way to get your multimeter's leads on the contacts.

Try switching it with the relay to the right, that one is the relay for the Blower's high setting (i believe, my FSM/EWD is at work). Its worth a shot.

 

[Red Merle]

I wonders why you replaced the battery in the first place. Also, check you grounds between the engine the body and the frame and battery to engine block.
The only time the fusible link needs to be a fusible link is in the event current draw on the system gets way to high. They are like a fuse with some patients, so, no I don't think yiu damaged anything with your patch wire.
Have you verified alternator output yet?

I replaced the battery because I live in an area that sees temps below -35 degrees F on a regular basis in the winter and I plan on using the truck to explore areas that are many, many miles from the nearest auto shop. It was eight years old and this is a big, old truck. I don't want to be stranded on the edge of a 5 million acre wilderness area, 50 miles from the nearest "town", been there, done that.

I haven't checked anything with the tester yet, but I did check the grounds when I removed the battery box to remove a little of the harness housing on the positive terminals after I replaced the fusible links. I am tired after 4 hours of farting around with it tonight and I need to be up early to drive six hours tomorrow and won't be able to get back to the Cruiser until Friday anyway. I plan on trying to learn how to use the tester I bought in the mean time. Any tips on that would be appreciated.

I am glad to hear your positive outlook on my stupid patch job. That is encouraging. I also appreciate your and others advice here as always. I am not a total noob when it comes to cars, and maintenance, but if all I had was the FSM, I probably wouldn't own this truck. This forum really helps those of us on a budget keep a truck like mine on the road.

 

[Red Merle]

I mean technically, although I can't imagine a good way to get your multimeter's leads on the contacts.

Try switching it with the relay to the right, that one is the relay for the Blower's high setting (i believe, my FSM/EWD is at work). Its worth a shot.

I will give that a shot. I didn't think there would be a way to test the relays easily, but it never hurts to ask, especially since I am entering uncharted waters as far as my troubleshooting experience goes. This is how I learn

 

[pengfinn]

I will give that a shot. I didn't think there would be a way to test the relays easily, but it never hurts to ask, especially since I am entering uncharted waters as far as my troubleshooting experience goes. This is how I learn

Thats where I am. Ive had this truck a year, she has really worried me at times, but MUD is a great resource. I've learned so much, and everyone is extremely helpful. So I feel obligated to help out where I can, too.

Check all of your knee fuse panel after testing the relay, too. When you get the chance to play with it again, let me know what you find out.

 

[Red Merle]

Thats where I am. Ive had this truck a year, she has really worried me at times, but MUD is a great resource. I've learned so much, and everyone is extremely helpful. So I feel obligated to help out where I can, too.

Check all of your knee fuse panel after testing the relay, too. When you get the chance to play with it again, let me know what you find out.

Thanks! My last Cruiser was a 62 and I don't recall it being such a complicated beast, but maybe I just got lucky. I do really like these things and this forum has been a great help over the years and when the time came to decide whether or not to jump back into owning another one, knowing this forum was here was a major consideration that I put in the "pro" column when making my decision.

I appreciate your advice and I will check the stuff you mentioned along with the alternator and let you guys know where I end up this weekend. Hopefully I will have something positive to report

 

[greentruck]

You've got a multimeter -- that's progress. Even if you're a single sort of mechanic. i

For testing the fusible links, set it to read Ohms (or resistance). You should get some number that's low. If you get nothing/infinite resistance -- called an "open" -- then the link is bad.

For testing battery levels, set the the meter to read DC volts in whatever range 12 volt's is centered in, put the red lead on the + post and the black on the negative post. That should give you an idea how well it's doing. You want more than 12.5 volts at rest as a general rule.

If the battery was 8 years old and spent time sitting, you were lucky to get much of anything out. Even good quality batteries start losing their edge after 4 years or so., because of the limitations of the design and battery chemistry. It was a good move to replace it.

BTW, I'm a fan of Interstates, they're good stuff. Make sure it really fits though, as there's not a lot of clearance under the hood for the positive post. If you don't spec it right and get the post on the outside, rather than towards the inside, that could be a problem. And make sure it's tied down. Those are two more important things to address if you don't want to melt or set anything on fire.

If you get it started, you want to voltmeter on the dash to start off high (14v+) and then reduce to a moderate level (13v or so). If so, the alternator and charging circuit is working. Most likely, you'll be finding some abnormal readings along the way, and can get back to us.

Also note, if all the power goes out because the battery is disconnected, it takes a little while for the ECU to sort things out and relearn the best settings for the truck. It will run a little rough at first, but as it recovers it will get better on its own.

 

[Red Merle]

You've got a multimeter -- that's progress. Even if you're a single sort of mechanic. i

For testing the fusible links, set it to read Ohms (or resistance). You should get some number that's low. If you get nothing/infinite resistance -- called an "open" -- then the link is bad.

For testing battery levels, set the the meter to read DC volts in whatever range 12 volt's is centered in, put the red lead on the + post and the black on the negative post. That should give you an idea how well it's doing. You want more than 12.5 volts at rest as a general rule.

If the battery was 8 years old and spent time sitting, you were lucky to get much of anything out. Even good quality batteries start losing their edge after 4 years or so., because of the limitations of the design and battery chemistry. It was a good move to replace it.

BTW, I'm a fan of Interstates, they're good stuff. Make sure it really fits though, as there's not a lot of clearance under the hood for the positive post. If you don't spec it right and get the post on the outside, rather than towards the inside, that could be a problem. And make sure it's tied down. Those are two more important things to address if you don't want to melt or set anything on fire.

If you get it started, you want to voltmeter on the dash to start off high (14v+) and then reduce to a moderate level (13v or so). If so, the alternator and charging circuit is working. Most likely, you'll be finding some abnormal readings along the way, and can get back to us.

Also note, if all the power goes out because the battery is disconnected, it takes a little while for the ECU to sort things out and relearn the best settings for the truck. It will run a little rough at first, but as it recovers it will get better on its own.

Thanks for the response. A couple of things, the voltmeter on the dash is dead right now along with the rest of the instrument cluster. I will try to test the alternator before I leave today. I am a little confused by the FSM instructions as to how to test it while the thing is still in the truck. I am open to advice on that.

The battery does fit pretty well now that I slid a 1X8 piece of pine under it. It doesn't stick up past the battery box and the original tie down mechanism keeps it snug.

I am hoping it's the alternator, but I do want to test it before just ordering a new one.

 

[Red Merle]

OK, so I have an update. I was able to figure out one way to test the battery and the alternator performance by just doing it at the battery terminals. The battery tested above 12.5 volts and with the engine running with everything turned on, including the headlights, the meter reads 14.65 volts.

This should mean that both the battery and the alternator are functioning properly, right?

So that's both good news and bad news. The good news is that the battery and alternator seem to be working, but I am still having the other issues. I also noticed that when I turn the key to ON, none of the idiot lights come on and the gear selector lights are also not functioning, along with all of the other previously mentioned things that don't work.

I will have to wait until Friday to start yanking relays, but I thought if I gave you guys this update, you might be able to help me figure out more options between now and then.

Thoughts?

 

[greentruck]

Yeah, sounds like you've got charging. Assuming everything got hooked up right when R&R the fusible links, your battery should charge.

On the relays, look at them carefully and you'll see a number of them are actually the same part. So you can swap them around for testing purposes. Keep track of which one's you move, so you can tell when circuits that were dead come alive and vice versa. That will determine if it's a relay and which one. There are several circuits that use relays that aren't strictly necessary to drive the truck and one of those can be robbed to get a vital-to-run circuit up. Next to the battery there's a black cover over the fuses and relays there. For instance, IIRC, the EFI and Horn relays might be the same. You don't need the horn, but sure do need the EFI to run, if they match, so there's one place to consider.

Also note there's various fuses in there, I wasn't absolutely sure you mentioned checking them already or not.

 

[Red Merle]

Yeah, sounds like you've got charging. Assuming everything got hooked up right when R&R the fusible links, your battery should charge.

On the relays, look at them carefully and you'll see a number of them are actually the same part. So you can swap them around for testing purposes. Keep track of which one's you move, so you can tell when circuits that were dead come alive and vice versa. That will determine if it's a relay and which one. There are several circuits that use relays that aren't strictly necessary to drive the truck and one of those can be robbed to get a vital-to-run circuit up. Next to the battery there's a black cover over the fuses and relays there. For instance, IIRC, the EFI and Horn relays might be the same. You don't need the horn, but sure do need the EFI to run, if they match, so there's one place to consider.

Also note there's various fuses in there, I wasn't absolutely sure you mentioned checking them already or not.

Thanks again, I have checked a number of fuses, but I haven't gotten in to the relays yet. I will try swapping some around and see where that gets me. The confusing part is that none of the fuses or the relays seem to be all encompassing for all the stuff that I have lost, i.e., it's likely not just one relay or fuse that is keeping things from functioning right.

 

[pengfinn]

Thanks again, I have checked a number of fuses, but I haven't gotten in to the relays yet. I will try swapping some around and see where that gets me. The confusing part is that none of the fuses or the relays seem to be all encompassing for all the stuff that I have lost, i.e., it's likely not just one relay or fuse that is keeping things from functioning right.

Several may have popped as a result of an electrical gremlin further up the line. It may be worth it to order an EWD just to get a feel for how things are wired in your truck. Honestly just a diagram of the dome/cig circuits would be over 50% of cabin stuff

 

[lazy]

Can you post the issues you're having in a list form? For instance, the dome light doesn't travel through a relay, so if it isnt a fuse, it's in the wiring somewhere. Also, we can help identify which circuits are having issues and narrow down what to test.

Here's a picture of my efi wire after peeling back the wrap, this is near the battery box, in a similar area to where you had to stretch the harness to get the new battery to fit. The wiring can also be bad and especially brittle after all these years. Pm me and I can email a ewd for your model year....

 

[Red Merle]

Can you post the issues you're having in a list form? For instance, the dome light doesn't travel through a relay, so if it isnt a fuse, it's in the wiring somewhere. Also, we can help identify which circuits are having issues and narrow down what to test.

Here's a picture of my efi wire after peeling back the wrap, this is near the battery box, in a similar area to where you had to stretch the harness to get the new battery to fit. The wiring can also be bad and especially brittle after all these years. Pm me and I can email a ewd for your model year....

View attachment 1328482

Here is what doesn't work now; the windows and sunroof are dead along with the fan/heat, the shift selector lights, the interior dome lights and all of the gauges including the tachometer and all of the idiot lights except the one that lets you know a door is open. The rear heat fan seems to work on the high speed setting but it is dead on the low setting. The headlights/tail lights, radio, turn signals, wipers and power antenna all work.

I did recheck the voltage on the battery with the motor idling and the voltage was wandering all over the place and wouldn't really go over 14V. I decided to just order a new alternator just to rule it out as it looks old and crusty anyway. The motor definitely does not run as good as it did before this happened.

So how can I start checking individual wires with the multi-meter? I am new to electrical diagnostics and would take any advice people are willing to share. Also, I have the wiring diagrams that are in the FSM, but they are kinda hard to understand. Again, any advice on that would be appreciated. Lastly, what are the ramifications here if a bunch of wires somehow got fried? Can I just splice in new wires somehow, or am I looking at installing a whole new wiring harness(which honestly, isn't something I think I would do. I would just cut my losses and sell the truck for parts or as is. Both of which would really bum me out)

Thanks!

 

[2KCruiser]

I can guarantee that it's not the alternator.
The alternators job is just to charge your battery. If you are at 14V at idle then you are spot on.
Your issue is either a blown main fuse or a loose/severed ground.

 

[2KCruiser]

Also, when you check fuses, just remove them and make sure the fuse panel is not melted where they mount. Sometimes they tend to heat up over time and literally melt the plastic housing that holds the connectors to the fuse terminals.