I got stuck....your perspective (please). (1 Viewer)

[umpqua]

So I had a fairly embarrassing situation on my hands a couple of days ago. I went to the beach and got the Land Cruiser stuck pretty much to the axles in sand.

Last week I bought new BFG All Terrains. 33x10.5x15. I know that they were aired up to ~40psi. Went to the beach and went up on a small (6') incline that quickly leveled out. Just a nice place to sit in the sun and enjoy the beach. Lot's and LOT's of other folks around in various 4wd's running around in the sand. When it was time to leave I tried moving forward and the Cruiser immediately dug for China. Stuck. Not quite to the axles just yet. Ok, there was a guy in a F150 that offered help. I tried to winch (8K lb warn)myself to him but the winch appeared to give up....quit puling. Long story but the F150 and a Dodge truck along with a pile of people pushing from the back were able to get me out.

I know that it would have been helpful if I would have aired my tires down (15psi??). But, I didn't have a way to air them back up. Yesterday I ordered an ARB compressor so that will solve that problem in the future. I do think that my 4x4 was working. The green 4wd light was on. When trying to get out I noticed that the front left tire WAS spinning so that seems to have been engaged. In a couple of months when I recover from the new tires and the compressor I am going to install front diff locks. The truck is heavier now with all of the "overlanding" gear although I don't know the exact weight.

So I don't even know if I have a question but does this sound like a potentially reasonable outcome of going on the sand. It sure doesn't seem like anyone else was having an issue. Should the winch have given up with this heavy truck buried nearly to the axles? The truck was running and the battery appeared to have a full charge.

While this WAS embarrassing, it was better to experience this with help available instead of having the issue in some remote beach area of Mexico.

I don't have a high lift jack....yet. No shovel. I know.

Anything that I should be thinking about? I'd like to prepare for any possible eventualities. Should I have the winch and 4wd checked or simply chalk it up to being a moron.

Again, I'll appreciate any perspectives.

 

[Mace]

40 psi, 33x10.50 and sand = stuck.. If you had aired down, you likely would have driven right out.
Air down, it makes a huge difference.

8K winch is a bit light for a heavy 60. it may have been better to double line the winch for additional pull.

 

[PortFJ62]

Agree with above. Maybe getting a rear locker? You could buy a pair of Maxtrax that would definitely help.

 

[umpqua]

Thanks.

Yeah, the high inflation skinny tires didn't seem the right combo for the sand. Next time I will have a way to air them up. Do you think that 15psi is too low for these tires on a fully loaded truck?

I plan to put the lockers on the front. Would there be an advantage to having them on the rear instead? I'm sure that I will get around to both as I should live another 30 years. I like the idea of the Maxtrax as well. I've seen those. Not sure where I would carry them....guess I need to get that rear bumper.

Hurt my pride a little but I guess I was due. Being humbled can be a good thing sometimes as long as blood isn't involved.

 

[Mace]

15 psi would likely not have been low enough actually. Sand really likes a large footprint. I would not have a problem with 12 and under honestly. But, it's best to get out there and actually see how low they can go. How far away was the nearest gas station? You can drive with deflated tires for quite a ways before any issues arise. And most of those issues are due to premature wear on the tires..

Rear has most of your driving power. Front unloads going up hill. A locker in the front helps a bit, but one in the rear is considerably better. If you put a locker in the front. You should likely upgrade the axle shafts while you are there. What locker are you thinking of?

IMHO, before you start throwing lockers at your rig. Learn to drive it. You would be amazed at how far they can go unlocked. Although I was not there for your situation, I seriously doubt that you could not have driven out with a couple small changes. I'm not trying to bash you at all. It's just that I see quite a few people who don't know how to drive their rigs throwing money and traction aids to try to keep up with the more experienced folk instead of working their way through what really needs to be done.

Getting stuck is one of the greatest ways to learn in our hobby

 

[FishTown]

I come from a family of sailors. The motto I've always lived on is "If you haven't run aground, you haven't been anywhere."

Like @Mace said, getting stuck/getting yourself into any difficult situation is one of the best learning tools. It also means you're using your rig for what it's built for.

 

[klinetime574]

I'd re-evaluate that street pressure unless you're going for strictly MPG's. x2 on definitely airing down for sand. I've run 12psi on the trail with 33x10.5 on 15x8 wheels, no issues.

 

[jamesg]

How were you using your throttle? I ask because just flooring it would get you stuck as well. I see this a lot in ice and snow where folks just slam the throttle out of frustration and make it worse. Be gentle with the gas peddle. "You don't just go stampeding towards the clitoris." -Monty Python, "The meaning of life"

 

[Strick]

As all have said here ill agree. I was going up a massive rocky mountain, got to a steep incline and just couldnt get up, couldnt figure out why. Anyway checked my tyre pressure, they had gone back up to 30. Dropped it down to 18 from memory and walked up it like it was a flat bit of tared road, tyre pressure makes so much difference.

If your on the sand alot, Maxtracks or similar will get you out alot of the time too, even on other trails in the right situation using Maxtracks means you wont have to get the winch out.

An 8000 pound winch will be on the limit when ever used with a 60, so may work most of the time, but when its being used at the top end of its capability it may let you down.

Last one, with lockers, best to go rear first, again as stated above. Front lockers are great but can break stuff if used incorrectly. Another good tip i received, when going through an obstacle try to drive through until cant drive any more, then rear locker and repeat, then front. That way you know you can always drive out. However if you use all aids to begin with, may end up very very stuck

 

[Matty f]

Being a keen fisho I do a bit of sand driving.
I run 7.5r16s a very skinny tyre and open diffs and find with low pressures . I get where needed.
But wouldn't be without maxtracks. They have gotten me out of bogs that I thought would be recoveries. Absolute must Imo if sand driving.

And getting out there exploring cracking beaches and gaining skills ain't a bad thing too

 

[JohnVee]

Went to the beach and went up on a small (6') incline that quickly leveled out. Just a nice place to sit in the sun and enjoy the beach.

No shovel.

Try to park pointing downhill so you have momentum on your side when you go to start moving again by using minimal throttle.

Carry a long handled shovel so you can reach under the vehicle.

Watch your coolant temp when in the sand.

 

[slomoe]

many trips to the outer banks in the fj60. 70 miles of beach to explore. aired down to 20 and never got totally stuck. (stock tires) yeah, maybe that's why i'm repairing rust spots this summer.

 

[cruiserpilot]

Good experience, I dug myself out of a foot of snow for 2 1/2 hrs this spring. 8' from the end of the snow, but
stuck is stuck. Trees too far to for winch, ironic as I have 2 winches.
Best to be below 10 psi for soft sand, from what I've read. I have no sand experience, don't like rust so I stay off
the ocean beaches here.
Remember, the winch only pulls 8000 lbs on the bottom of the spool. So if you have 3 layers of wire under and you
are pulling to an attached point, you are only able to create 3-4000 lbs pulling capacity anyhow. So had you a snatch
block, effectively doubling your pulling power and using more wire to do so and then getting 2 more layers down on the
spool you are now being far more effective in winch output and then total with the snatch block.
There are more experienced experts than me on here, might have an addendum to this.

 

[umpqua]

First I want to say thank you for the comments. I've been a member of this site for quite a while and will be the first to tell you that 99.9% of the folks that I've encountered here are good people willing to offer their experience; thank you!

Mace, I see you posting here a bit and appreciate your perspective. I certainly took no offense to your comment about learning your rig. I totally agree and wheni thought about it I realized that I've never NOT had a 4wd. Had one from when I got my drivers license at 16 which has now been 40 years. Damn. Anyway. I've had the 62 for ~18 years and the 40 for at least 25. I have to admit though that I don't wheel them hard and they spend a lot of time on pavement.

I don't know the weight of the loaded 62 (h55 conversion) but it's getting up there. So you don't think I risk running it off the bead at 12psi?

Jamesg I probably got on the throttle pretty good. It's manual and I think I might have been better off with the auto but I won't be going back to that. The truck seems to be no worse for the wear from the whipping I gave it.

Strick, I appreciate the comment about how much cable was out. Never thought about that but it does make sense and I'll remember it. Lots of cable was still on the spool. Interesting.

When I recover from the new Bfg's and the compressor I will go to the lockers. I was considering arb's but if you have opinions on others I'm wide open. I will ask my mechanic about doing the rear first.

I'm gradually but surely prepping this rig for a drive to Patagonia. I want to try as best I can to prep for any situation that may arise. I agree, I need to get stuck more often. It will pay off.

Somewhere in here I wanted to say that I'll get the maxtrax.... Good tool for the tool chest.

Thank you....

 

[CuCruiser]

Not the most experienced four wheeler, especially in sand, but have been stuck without hope of easy rescue my share of times. Necessity is the mother of invention, and I have used chunks of bark, sticks and the like as maxtrax more times than I can count. A nice big curled hunk of bark makes a pretty decent snow shovel too. Fun times!

 

[gkanai]

Everyone has given you good advice. Airing down is key. Recovery gear, including Maxtraxx and shovels are key for sand. You also need to practice sand driving to understand the momentum needed on sand and where not to stop the vehicle (on sand).

A bunch of good sand driving videos:





Ruts4x4 - Sand driving tutorial

Sand Driving - Mad Matt 4wd Tips

4WD Recovery Series Part 5: Sand Recovery Techniques

Beach Driving Techniques

 

[Mace]

Mace, I see you posting here a bit and appreciate your perspective. I certainly took no offense to your comment about learning your rig. I totally agree and wheni thought about it I realized that I've never NOT had a 4wd. Had one from when I got my drivers license at 16 which has now been 40 years. Damn. Anyway. I've had the 62 for ~18 years and the 40 for at least 25. I have to admit though that I don't wheel them hard and they spend a lot of time on pavement.

I relate wheeling to motorcycle riding. Some of the best Street Bike riders I have ever met started on the dirt and hanging it out every day. Some of the worst Dirt bike riders I have ever met spent most of their life on the street. The guy that learns int he dirt is more comfortable with the bike sliding and moving around. The street dude has no clue what to do when the rear end washes out..

I've also had a cruiser my entire driving career. Luckily, I live in the arid southwest and have been experienced to a multitude of road types. Even at that, I didn't really start airing tires down till the early 90's. And at that point, it was just to make the off road ride more comfy. I'd stretch the limits of your cruiser as much as you can before you REALLY need the experience. Go see what it can do, it's fun

I don't know the weight of the loaded 62 (h55 conversion) but it's getting up there. So you don't think I risk running it off the bead at 12psi?

It's probably not as heavy as you think, likely in the 6500 range. I would not have a issue going to 12. What rims are you running? that will make a difference as well.

Jamesg I probably got on the throttle pretty good. It's manual and I think I might have been better off with the auto but I won't be going back to that. The truck seems to be no worse for the wear from the whipping I gave it.

Sprung under with the tires you have and a 2F you will not easily hurt that truck. Go have fun

When I recover from the new Bfg's and the compressor I will go to the lockers. I was considering arb's but if you have opinions on others I'm wide open. I will ask my mechanic about doing the rear first.

If you are considering ARB's, then stick with it. Just make darn sure they are installed well and you have replacement lines for them in case a repair needs to be made.

I'm gradually but surely prepping this rig for a drive to Patagonia. I want to try as best I can to prep for any situation that may arise. I agree, I need to get stuck more often. It will pay off.

Prep the rig and go wheel in every imaginable condition you find. That will make the most difference. Knowing what the rig can and can't do is very important..

 

[umpqua]

Hi Mace-

The original wheels are on the Land Cruiser. Chrome spoke wheels. Really like the look of the grey steel wheels and hubcaps that are on the 40....may go to those someday but not in any particular hurry.

I am going to wait until I get the compressor installed and I am going to get the Maxtrax. When I do that I am going to go back to the exact spot.....lower the tires and see what happens. My confidence was shaken but I know that I have a capable rig under me. I'll come back to this thread with a report.

Gkania, thanks for the links. I already watched the first video and will look at the rest. Good info that is appreciated. Thank you.

Are these https://www.amazon.com/Innovations-...=UTF8&qid=1469642899&sr=8-1&keywords=max+trax the traction devices you guys were talking about? They have some pretty good reviews.

 

[umpqua]

Maybe on-board air will help? Installed yesterday.

 

[ufg8r]

Have spent some time in Florida and Arizona. If you are in soft sand more often than not you may think about wider tires once you're done with your current set. For now just use what you've got and evaluate wether you need something wider eventually.

Like others have said, momentum is your friend and try not to park in the really soft stuff. If you do, I've had some luck starting off in second gear instead of first to limit accidentally spinning my wheels.

When I was doing my sand driving my vehicle at the time didn't have lockers, and I didn't get stuck too frequently.

For those that have lockers and are around sand, do they help much? I know my rear Aussie locker is a big help in the rocks, but I don't really love it in the low traction stuff like snow and ice.