Should Aux Battery be Grounded to Block? Or Fender, Frame, Etc? (1 Viewer)

[Dave 2000]

^^^^^^^^^^Man after my own heart! Bigger cables is better! Earth everything in sight!

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Very cool, thanks Dave.

Do you know if I have the right holes?

No idea mate as I think you are working with the petrol engine? I just know all the bolts (M6, M8, M10 etc), on my diesel have been 1.5 pitch.

regards

Dave

 

[NCFJ]

^^^^^^^^^^Man after my own heart! Bigger cables is better! Earth everything in sight!

regards

Dave

I am right there with you. I run a pair of wires to fuel pumps, one is a dedicated ground direct to BAT- and I also pig tail it to the frame where it comes off to the pump. Always run dedicated grounds with aux lights as well as a pig tail to the chassis at point of install. I always figure that I running wire anyway, if space allows why not up size.

Toyotas and grounds.......

I had an early 80s mini truck here once with a 22RE. I was the third shop and countless "expert" (I am far from it) to look at it. Ran intermittent, would completely shut down, then start right up again. After I messed with it and checked all the common issues I found nothing that had not already been replaced etc. Guy after me figured it out. Broken ground strap from the back of the motor to the firewall, every so often it actually made contact and it ran well. I check all grounds as habit these days, they are all over a Land Cruiser.

 

[1973Guppie]

I am right there with you. I run a pair of wires to fuel pumps, one is a dedicated ground direct to BAT- and I also pig tail it to the frame where it comes off to the pump. Always run dedicated grounds with aux lights as well as a pig tail to the chassis at point of install. I always figure that I running wire anyway, if space allows why not up size.

Toyotas and grounds.......

I had an early 80s mini truck here once with a 22RE. I was the third shop and countless "expert" (I am far from it) to look at it. Ran intermittent, would completely shut down, then start right up again. After I messed with it and checked all the common issues I found nothing that had not already been replaced etc. Guy after me figured it out. Broken ground strap from the back of the motor to the firewall, every so often it actually made contact and it ran well. I check all grounds as habit these days, they are all over a Land Cruiser.

^ this, it is amazing how bad grounds can effect how a car runs.....Lots of times I see rusted / bad grounds. I try to redo these with a file and some dielectric grease...

 

[Dave 2000]

I love the small 'Dremel' tool with the grinder or wire brush attachment, gets in all the little nooks and crannies..oooer missus, give the metal a good polish up, bolt on your tags and then a dab of paint, done for years!

regards

Dave

 

[86tuning]

Is the block really that much better than the head? Aluminum vs iron? Is that it?

Well the alternator is bolted to the block, and is the starter. That's where you want your ground to be so that when the alternator is charging, power will flow directly from the alternator case thru the block to your battery.

Once upon a time, on another car, I upgraded the wire from the alternator to the battery too. But that was another time and another place.

 

[JCruse]

Ok since I finished up the under hood a little early and because of reading this thread I'm gonna first run the block ground (to the unthreaded loop off of the upper pan) and then run a couple of extra grounds. Battery to frame, frame to block, etc. Genuine Dealz here I come...

 

[JCruse]

This is all great but WHERE IS THAT HOLE!!

Sorry for shouting like that but I just came out from under the truck for the fifth or sixth time, first to locate this threaded unused hole under the exhaust manifold and then finding three the first day, I've been trying to find just one bolt to fit any of them, with no luck. One hole is so shallow I don't think there is a bolt made to fit it. One is too close to the motor mount to allow room for the head of a bolt thick enough. That leaves the last one way up high that I can barely reach it. You can't get any bolt (M10-100,125,150,175, M8 or M12) to turn more than twice. Now the threads are rusty so I tried turning the short M10-150 with a wrench and I can get it about half way before it quits, and I don't want to totally strip out the threads.

The other, fourth hole ("Beatle"?) is easy to bolt up with nut and bolt, but it's on the oil pan and so not block grounded.

So would someone please tell me where I can block ground my second battery??

 

[Dave 2000]

If this is giving you grief then either, use one of the starter bolts as an earth, or one of the motor mount bolts.

Not worth puling your hair out over this.

regards

Dave

 

[Cruiserdrew]

The most important thing is to assure all the grounds are equal. The easiest way to do that, is to ground the negative of one battery to the negative post of the other battery. Then run a frame ground as you see fit.

I think this is why Blue Sea recommends a "ground bus" which electrically is not necessary, but does work perfectly if you use one.

 

[Dave 2000]

I joined my battery negatives with some serious cable, for sizes see thread link in sig, also earthed both to the bodywork and the block, I have gone way overboard IMO but it works. I have recently been working on boat electrical systems, nothing serious (depth finders/ship to shore comms etc.), and the negative bus is a very common theme given that many have fiberglass hulls, and on steel hulls galvanic corrosion is a problem.

But going back many years, my 1976 V12 Jaguar (battery in boot), I had one negative to the bodywork engine to body earth. All other earths went to the nearest bit of metal on the bodywork with a Philips screw and serrated washer. Given that modern cars with batteries in the boot BMW for example, seem to be following a similar theme, and given the amount of electronics on these things that still work, I would say any decent earth will do, battery - body - motor, some manufacturers do it with one cable, a splice midway along the battery - block cable.

regards

Dave

 

[86tuning]

More often than not, when I am dealing with electrical issues with a Toyotas the issue is in the ground circuit. Good grounds are important. When I am building a swap truck and building a complete new electrical system i run grounds to the frame, block and body. I also run the heaviest gauge (1/0) that will take the bends. I also add at least one ground strap from block to body.

I got accustomed to running larger POS and NEG leads when I was playing with boats. The theory is, nature is going to corrode any cable so the thicker the cable the longer you have between replacements and carrying capacity remains within spec longer. Don't skimp here!

I also use a star washer between the cable and it's attachment point. This allows it to dig in to both cable and base metal for a better connection.

Excellent. Also, in corrosive environments (places with liquid de-icer used on roads etc) painting stuff after connecting it isn't a bad idea. Scrape/file/grind the spot clean, connect, then protect with paint to reduce corrosion of the connection itself. Prevent future problems.

 

[Douglas S]

I also joined the negative posts of my batteries with 2/0 and then ran another cable to the block from one of the batteries.

 

[maxamillion2345]

Toyota uses mostly 1.25 pitch bolts. Just fyi

 

[LFD2037]

Why not run the NEG from the spare battery to the NEG on the main battery & be done? If it's good enough for the main battery then it's good enough for the 2nd battery. It's just a ground for crying out loud!

 

[george_tlc]

Why not run the NEG from the spare battery to the NEG on the main battery & be done? If it's good enough for the main battery then it's good enough for the 2nd battery. It's just a ground for crying out loud!

Well, given that most everything in the vehicle draws it's NEG current through the frame/body, then the BEST place to ground the battery is to the block (for starter motor current) and body. That is the correct place. As per the main battery. So, in fact, grounding the aux NEG to the main NEG is not the optimum choice - other that it also means running another thick cable across the engine bay.

The OP is just having trouble locating the spare threaded bolt hole on the block. What is simple/obvious to some is not necessarily easy for others, especially in the rust belt...

cheers,
george.

 

[LFD2037]

Well, given that most everything in the vehicle draws it's NEG current through the frame/body, then the BEST place to ground the battery is to the block (for starter motor current) and body. That is the correct place. As per the main battery. So, in fact, grounding the aux NEG to the main NEG is not the optimum choice - other that it also means running another thick cable across the engine bay.

The OP is just having trouble locating the spare threaded bolt hole on the block. What is simple/obvious to some is not necessarily easy for others, especially in the rust belt...

cheers,
george.

So what your saying is if you run the spare NEG to main NEG, & the main NEG is grounded to the block & the body from the factory, you're not getting a block & body ground from the main battery to the spare battery? How is it not the exact same thing?

 

[george_tlc]

V = IR

You are creating a higher resistance path by adding extra cable between the AUX ground and the starter motor. Your Aux if used to start yourself now has a NEG cable that runs from the aux across the engine bay to main and the main to the block and starter. Unless you upgraded the OEM starter ground, it's already what I consider a marginal gauge for carry cold cranking amps when you are armpit deep in a swamp and trying to start the engine.

It's real simple, there's a perfectly usable and unused threaded hole on the PS of the block that's is maybe 3' from the Aux battery - use it! There's also a threaded hole in the fender where the aux battery tray goes waiting for a 2nd ground connection. This will mimic the ground path of the main battery.

cheers,
george.

 

[JCruse]

Ok that's it. I'm grounding it to the frame!

V = IR

You are creating a higher resistance path by adding extra cable between the AUX ground and the starter motor. Your Aux if used to start yourself now has a NEG cable that runs from the aux across the engine bay to main and the main to the block and starter. Unless you upgraded the OEM starter ground, it's already what I consider a marginal gauge for carry cold cranking amps when you are armpit deep in a swamp and trying to start the engine.

It's real simple, there's a perfectly usable and unused threaded hole on the PS of the block that's is maybe 3' from the Aux battery - use it! There's also a threaded hole in the fender where the aux battery tray goes waiting for a 2nd ground connection. This will mimic the ground path of the main battery.

cheers,
george.

OK now we're getting somewhere, have you read my post about finding three unused threaded holes? They're all about 3' from the aux battery because they're all less than about 5" apart from each other. The thing is I cant get any size/thread bolt to go in more than a few turns which would require the use of many washers to get a tight connection. And I don't like doing things that way if I can avoid it.
Assuming one of these is your hole, I need to know about how far up it is from the oil pan?

 

[george_tlc]

YOU will need to determine bolt diameter/pitch, it's metric and nothing 'weird'.

Ok, pics and a couple of views (pic 3,4) of the bolt I used on the block.

The 'other' 1/0 ground cable on the battery lug (2nd picture) goes to my m12000.

cheers,
george.