Following along as this seems like a great mud success story!
Tranny/transfer takes dump (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter meckles
- Start date
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meckless is going to drive over to my place tonight and see if we can put that c ring, I sure hope that shaft doesn't grind out the splines on the hub if he drives straight mostly it should be okay I guess. He is 15 miles away from me. Hopefully it turns out as a success story.
- Thread starter
- #25
So here it goes. Last night Savric went way out of his way to help me at 11:30. Long story short we broke down the front end to find the groove that holds the c clip on the end of the axle gone. So I left Savric house around 12:30ish and proceeded to limp 15 miles back across town. This morning I got up and picked up a new Cv axle at o Reilly's and brought it over Javier. Pull into to a shop and seeing no less than 6 landcruisers can definitely instill some confidence. I can't say enough about the mud community and especially Savic he went above and beyond anything I think I could have( my wife would have let me) done. With that being said I owe a huge debt of gratitude to Savric, mud, hopefully Javier. Fingers crossed i'll get back on the road to Florida this afternoon. I'll keep you posted.
Bomar
SILVER Star
Awesome.... Great to hear!
This is a testament to mud members helpfulness, camaraderie and willingness to share. Kudos to Savric, you Texan's are some of the best people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing.
Where issue are going to come up no matter how much we strive to keep up with scheduled maintenance, this one issue is getting all to common.
meckles;
I'm very curious as to when (miles) & where servicing of:
Wheel bearings, Axle needle bearings & bushings?
And
Were bearings & bushings replaced or reused?
Standard or road force wheel balance?
Tires stock or oversized?
Many shops that don't regular work on 100's, don't grease the Axle needle bearings & bushing. If they don't have the tool Slee offers for this, chances are they don't grease them. As without the tool they'd need to remove the steering knuckle which greatly increases shop time. These shops probably do not check the snap ring gap either and set wheel bearings loose (old school hand tighten).
FSM recommends wheel & axle bearing and bushing be serviced every 30K miles.
FSM also states: Bushings, Bearings, Races, Lock washers, Gaskets, Seals, Flange/cone nuts, Snap rings and Grease caps are non-reusable parts.
I've been reusing most all of my parts every service. Excepted I've replaced lock washers most times, claw washers at least once and one snap ring (DS) that had a gap greater than 0.2mm spec. On my next service I'll be changing out all parts per FSM, as my bearing didn't look that great last service. I'm experimenting with a very high torque on bearings to get FSM recommended break away preload as read on fish scale, so I didn't replace parts this last service, just in case. If no overheating signs next service I'll keep torque at whatever needed to get break-away preload near but not over 15 pounds as I've done this time. FSM stated torque is only starting point as I read it. Key is break-away preload.
Where issue are going to come up no matter how much we strive to keep up with scheduled maintenance, this one issue is getting all to common.
meckles;
I'm very curious as to when (miles) & where servicing of:
Wheel bearings, Axle needle bearings & bushings?
And
Were bearings & bushings replaced or reused?
Standard or road force wheel balance?
Tires stock or oversized?
Many shops that don't regular work on 100's, don't grease the Axle needle bearings & bushing. If they don't have the tool Slee offers for this, chances are they don't grease them. As without the tool they'd need to remove the steering knuckle which greatly increases shop time. These shops probably do not check the snap ring gap either and set wheel bearings loose (old school hand tighten).
FSM recommends wheel & axle bearing and bushing be serviced every 30K miles.
FSM also states: Bushings, Bearings, Races, Lock washers, Gaskets, Seals, Flange/cone nuts, Snap rings and Grease caps are non-reusable parts.
I've been reusing most all of my parts every service. Excepted I've replaced lock washers most times, claw washers at least once and one snap ring (DS) that had a gap greater than 0.2mm spec. On my next service I'll be changing out all parts per FSM, as my bearing didn't look that great last service. I'm experimenting with a very high torque on bearings to get FSM recommended break away preload as read on fish scale, so I didn't replace parts this last service, just in case. If no overheating signs next service I'll keep torque at whatever needed to get break-away preload near but not over 15 pounds as I've done this time. FSM stated torque is only starting point as I read it. Key is break-away preload.
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- Thread starter
- #28
Wheel bearings were service by me before the thanksgiving holidays. I reused all but one bearings and that bearing was not on the side in question here. I do not know the previous maintenance history but from what I've seen it was not good. I replaced the hub seal lock washer and flange gasket.
Tires are stock
Standard balance as far as I know
Ended up replacing entire axle shaft with one from oreily because of availability. Nobody is real sure why the end of the axle was rubbed smooth but it actually worked out pretty good because it didn't mess up the flange plate. I'll put up pictures when I get home.
I need to give a special shout out to Javier at
Javier's auto unlimited
9443 Clay Rd
Houston, TX 77080-1445
United States
+1 (713) 461-5595
He had me in and out in under 2 hours and charged me accordingly. I don't like putting people's labor prices up but will tell you I thought about kissing him when I saw the bill. He seems very knowledge on cruiser and like I said early there are a bunch at his shop. The axle was only 80 bucks and I picked it and took it to him.
Overall what could have been a real bad situation turned out to be a walk in the part because of the stellar mud community and especially Savric. Thanks again guys
Tires are stock
Standard balance as far as I know
Ended up replacing entire axle shaft with one from oreily because of availability. Nobody is real sure why the end of the axle was rubbed smooth but it actually worked out pretty good because it didn't mess up the flange plate. I'll put up pictures when I get home.
I need to give a special shout out to Javier at
Javier's auto unlimited
9443 Clay Rd
Houston, TX 77080-1445
United States
+1 (713) 461-5595
He had me in and out in under 2 hours and charged me accordingly. I don't like putting people's labor prices up but will tell you I thought about kissing him when I saw the bill. He seems very knowledge on cruiser and like I said early there are a bunch at his shop. The axle was only 80 bucks and I picked it and took it to him.
Overall what could have been a real bad situation turned out to be a walk in the part because of the stellar mud community and especially Savric. Thanks again guys
Sorry if this put you on the spot, but can you give a little more detail on pre thanksgiving wheel bearing service:
What was final torque you use on bearings nut?
What did you set break-away preload to and how?
Did you grease axle bushing & needle bearings (in back of knuckle)?
What was gap of snap ring at that time?
- Thread starter
- #30
I set preload the same way I do everything and that's by hand. It worked on the several 80 series jobs and on hundreds of trailers. I grease everything and pack bearings very well as I have many years in a trailer shop where I did hundreds if not thousands of bearing jobs a day.
My take away from this is to replace the c clip which was the failure point here. As far as a gap goes on said clip I have no idea. Keep in mind it survived over 1000 miles before failing.
Didn't grease the bearings or bushing as I don't even know what or where it is. Again not part of this problem I'm pretty sure.
The axle was wrung smooth at the end where the c clip goes. From clip groove all the way to the end of the axle. In the end I'm happy with what i did and fully believe that this was an unavoidable problem. Maybe the clip was not seated very well in there or it was out of spec or the axle was just weak I don't know. But I am confident that me repacking bearings and hand preloading had absolutely nothing to do with this problem.
My take away from this is to replace the c clip which was the failure point here. As far as a gap goes on said clip I have no idea. Keep in mind it survived over 1000 miles before failing.
Didn't grease the bearings or bushing as I don't even know what or where it is. Again not part of this problem I'm pretty sure.
The axle was wrung smooth at the end where the c clip goes. From clip groove all the way to the end of the axle. In the end I'm happy with what i did and fully believe that this was an unavoidable problem. Maybe the clip was not seated very well in there or it was out of spec or the axle was just weak I don't know. But I am confident that me repacking bearings and hand preloading had absolutely nothing to do with this problem.
I'm very glad your on the road again, with only a few bucks and days lost. I pray your mechanic checked your other snap ring gap and grease that spindle (axle bushing & needle bearing) as well, while installing your front drive shaft (CV). Then hopefully rest of your trip will be uneventfully from here out. Snap ring gap is so easy to check even while on road trip, but often over looked during service.
I agree that loosely set Preload would not cause this type of failure, but might contribute to it with increased vibration and heat. I became a believe that our 100's wheel bearings must be more than hand tightened. From personal experience and comments made by a Lexus mechanic and Three Toyota shop foremen. That setting preload is key and that loose wheel bearings will cause chatter on claw washer. When I worked in a shop for a short-while in my youth, basically we'd hard hand tighten after settling bearing. With the 100 I'm up to 23 ft-lbft torque on the adjusting nut this service and ~13LB on previous. Which is way more than hand tight. Found I need this higher torque with my old bearings & races to get the FSM recommended preload breakaway of 11 to 15 LB on scale (SST).
C clip as you call it, It does look like a c, is called the snap ring. The axle will slip back and fourth <0.2mm against snap ring (against spindle & axle outer ends) and the brass bushing (against inner ends of spindle and axle). A Gap any more than that and slip may begin slapping/banging against ends. You said: "I do not know the previous maintenance history but from what I've seen it was not good." It's possible the axle brass bushing & needle bearings have not been grease in some time. The Slee - Spindle Grease Tool offers is great for this job. Obviously If the axle bushing is not grease it will wear, which wear will increase the gap.
The stock wheel on the 100 are temperamental and balance best by a road force balance machine, most good Toyota dealers will tell you this. Vibration from poorly balanced wheels will create heat and excessive wear.
As I see it; probably cause of axle failure is snap ring gap out of spec, accentuate by highway speed as a cascading failure aided by vibration and chatter.
Snap ring should be replaced if worn, damaged or gap to large. Axle bushing & bearing should be greased every 30k miles. Axle should be replaced if snap ring grove not square. Most shops use chassis/wheel bearing NGLI #2 CL-LB grease for this and that's fine. Best practice is synthetic NGLI #1 CL-LB grease in needle bearing and spindle, with NGLI #2 EP with moly on outside of brass bushing.
Wish you the best.
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arcteryx
Supporting Vendor
- Thread starter
- #33
So here it is and as you can see the entire end has been rubbed smooth. Again I have full confidence in the service that I did but I will replace the lock ring from here on out. The new axle actually came with a snap ring which Javier made a comment of that being better. You can tell the diffence in lock and snap as the snap has holes at the end and the lock rings are smooth and they take different pliers. The stock axles have lock rings not snap. Again I want to thank the mud community, especially savric, and Javier for getting back on the road and home in a safe and efficient manner.
I order various snap ring sizes (thicknesses) from local Toyota Dealer, in advance as they tend to be lacking stock.
I only picked up the Slee - Spindle Grease Tool recently, should have bought years ago.
