soda blast

79fj40moneypit · 05-03-08, 02:27 PM

I was considering soda blasting for cleaning the 40 body but I hear about paint not sticking to the metal after. Is there some type of metal prep that has to be used after blasting?

Wile E Coyote · 05-03-08, 04:25 PM

Never heard that one. Perhaps I'm about to learn something?
You know that soda will not remove rust, right? You'd have to switch to coal slag, alum oxide, etc for rust.

webelk6 · 05-03-08, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wile E Coyote

Never heard that one. Perhaps I'm about to learn something?
You know that soda will not remove rust, right? You'd have to switch to coal slag, alum oxide, etc for rust.

local powdercoater here uses plastic media as to not warp the body.

cruiser88 · 05-03-08, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webelk6

local powdercoater here uses plastic media as to not warp the body.

I knew about that but never seen it done. What kind of a profile does it leave?

shotgun · 05-03-08, 05:36 PM

anyone that soda blasts can use a formula that has an abrasive in it that will remove rust. Of coarse you would have to take measures to protect glass etc.

79fj40moneypit · 05-03-08, 06:00 PM

Really only looking for info on paint adhesion to soda blasted metal. I have new heritage rear quarters rockers and floors, so rust is gone just looking to clean all the paint off the body without sandblasting it.

webelk6 · 05-04-08, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruiser88

I knew about that but never seen it done. What kind of a profile does it leave?

From what I could tell, a very smooth profile. No pitting anywhere. Definately no chance of body panel warping. The media is about the size of a match head. Tho not sure about removing pitted rust, etc.

Wile E Coyote · 05-05-08, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 79fj40moneypit

Really only looking for info on paint adhesion to soda blasted metal. I have new heritage rear quarters rockers and floors, so rust is gone just looking to clean all the paint off the body without sandblasting it.

Fair enough, didn't mean to derail ya. I took your 'rust never sleeps' and ran with it.
Try www.eastwood.com or www.autobodystore.com and poke around their forums for a possible answer. If ya find anything, perhaps post it up here?

79fj40moneypit · 05-05-08, 08:13 PM

Yea rust never sleeps! We just slow it down some. Thanks for the links asked the soda blasting question there also so we'll see. My paint supplier told me about this problem but if you prep the surface after blasting I can't see why there would be a problem.

Wile E Coyote · 05-05-08, 09:46 PM

If this is a valid concern, I wonder if it's a pH thing, or a lack of surface 'bite' thing? If it's either, they both are easy fixes.

79fj40moneypit · 05-06-08, 06:38 AM

I have posted this question on [www.autobodystore.com] and had 2 replys, one reply was to make sure to sand the entire metal surface after blasting, and one that had paint problems? no other details although madia blasting was recomended. I may go that route.

Wile E Coyote · 05-06-08, 09:17 AM

Here's what google turned up this morning:
This is a cut and paste from a Nova forum.

"Well I contacted Sherwin Williams Automotive paint and this is what Rose Gasper, Customer Service Rep, had to say. "Application of a primer with minimal acid congertration such as etching fillers, vinyl wash, or metal preps, will react with sobium bicarbonare. This will emit carbon dioxide potentially causing blistering of the paint and then total delamination of the paint and undercoats".
Then Rose Gasper wrote the following steps must be adhered to. Observe recommendations specified by the company that produces the soda and the maufacturer of the equipment used. Then before applying any refinish materials, thoroughly clean the surface with soap and water, preferably with a pressure washer, then dry. The third step is to inspect the surface for any white residue. If a residue is found repeat the second step. The last thing is after the surface is thoroughly clean, and no residue is found, follow manufactures specific recommendations for bare substrates.
I hope this answers any questions you may have."

The preceeding post in the same thread stated:

"Warm water and vinegar will remove the residue. I add in a red scotchbrite and have had great results with small parts. I havn't done a full car yet. I also don't know any paint company that is going to warranty a paint job. When I was painting full time we had a problem with a color and called the jobber, they did replace the paint but wouldn't cover our time wasted."

79fj40moneypit · 05-06-08, 06:19 PM

Sounds iffy, I dont really want to spend a lot of time and cash and have my paint peel or blister, sounds like you could be real careful and still have problems.
Although I talked to a guy at Aqua Blast today and he said that he blasts with Arm and Hammer blasting soda he says it has a a chemical in it that leaves the soda neutral? after he is done blasting he power washes the metal drys it sprays it with metal etch then washes it with soap and water. Lot of steps to get the powder off.

iaintscared1969 · 05-06-08, 07:16 PM

I have used soda blasting in some of my builds. The only thing you have to tell the person or shop doing the paint work is that it has to be completly free of dust etc. Then it has to be wiped down thouroghly with vinegar. If you try to wipe it with a cleaning solvent all it will do is smear. Vinegar first then prep solvent. It will stick and it leaves a baby butt smooth surface. It will not remove rust though. You will need to take care of that before or after soda blast.

Here is a link www.sodablasting.com

Call them talk to Bill or Brian these are great guys to deal with and they will give you the straight from the horses mouth answer.

webelk6 · 05-07-08, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wile E Coyote

Here's what google turned up this morning:
This is a cut and paste from a Nova forum.

"Well I contacted Sherwin Williams Automotive paint and this is what Rose Gasper, Customer Service Rep, had to say. "Application of a primer with minimal acid congertration such as etching fillers, vinyl wash, or metal preps, will react with sobium bicarbonare. This will emit carbon dioxide potentially causing blistering of the paint and then total delamination of the paint and undercoats".
Then Rose Gasper wrote the following steps must be adhered to. Observe recommendations specified by the company that produces the soda and the maufacturer of the equipment used. Then before applying any refinish materials, thoroughly clean the surface with soap and water, preferably with a pressure washer, then dry. The third step is to inspect the surface for any white residue. If a residue is found repeat the second step. The last thing is after the surface is thoroughly clean, and no residue is found, follow manufactures specific recommendations for bare substrates.
I hope this answers any questions you may have."

The preceeding post in the same thread stated:

"Warm water and vinegar will remove the residue. I add in a red scotchbrite and have had great results with small parts. I havn't done a full car yet. I also don't know any paint company that is going to warranty a paint job. When I was painting full time we had a problem with a color and called the jobber, they did replace the paint but wouldn't cover our time wasted."

sounds like alot of rigamoro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iaintscared1969

I have used soda blasting in some of my builds. The only thing you have to tell the person or shop doing the paint work is that it has to be completly free of dust etc. Then it has to be wiped down thouroghly with vinegar. If you try to wipe it with a cleaning solvent all it will do is smear. Vinegar first then prep solvent. It will stick and it leaves a baby butt smooth surface. It will not remove rust though. You will need to take care of that before or after soda blast.

Here is a link www.sodablasting.com

Call them talk to Bill or Brian these are great guys to deal with and they will give you the straight from the horses mouth answer.

I guess if you get something sodablasted, I can't imagine or can understand MORE steps for painting prep. Vinegar, etc. I would opt for a different media with less bs involved, IMHO.

hdhskrmn · 06-01-08, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 79fj40moneypit

I was considering soda blasting for cleaning the 40 body but I hear about paint not sticking to the metal after. Is there some type of metal prep that has to be used after blasting?

I do sodablasting I do a lot of blasting for the local body shops in my area. I have done vettes merceds old mercs etc. I am not a total expert but I got a pretty good resume. In answer to paint not sticking after sodablasting. I know all the jobs I have done you wash the car down warm water and dishwashing liquid or vinegar and water. It is no big deal. I highly recommend sodablasting over the other types of blasting. 1 you can rinse away soda it will displace 2 It is totally harmless to enviro 3 The finish is excellent. Don't get me wrong sand dose have it's place as dose other types of media's. The jobs I have done where I have encountered rust those areas where gonna get cut out. The areas that had just surface rust the body shops I worked with would use a DA on it and prep the area accordingly. Hope this helps you.

Degnol · 06-02-08, 07:01 PM

Get it blasted, then wipe or spray it with 3M MetalPrep, wait, hose off and you have a perfect surface for paint.

Ed

webelk6 · 06-03-08, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Degnol

Get it blasted, then wipe or spray it with 3M MetalPrep, wait, hose off and you have a perfect surface for paint.

Ed

Did some checking with the local sodablaster, and after further review, I concur. Belay my former posts. Good, plain and simple Degnol.

Degnol · 06-03-08, 05:33 PM

Gee, 'Elk, thanks! As I recall, i have received some great paint advice from you in the past. You're a professional painter, aren't you?

Ed

webelk6 · 06-03-08, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Degnol

Gee, 'Elk, thanks! As I recall, i have received some great paint advice from you in the past. You're a professional painter, aren't you?

Ed

The 3m wipe down was the main ingredient . Another soda blaster said no prepping after(

). I know a lot about paint, but mostly on the industrial side

, which can be applicable in the cruiser nation.

+ I just can't see shooting a cruiser after all that work, to see it fail. That would really suck. I am going with the cleaning aspect, post soda blasting.

Nuff Said.

busterblastereast · 08-26-08, 08:00 PM

As a soda blast industry professional, I have researched this subject to great legths. What I found was a product called Hold Tight 102 (www.holdtight.com). It is used worldwide as a surface after wash and used after blasting with ANY MEDIA. I am a dealer of this product and I'll be happy to sell you or any others in need this product. Visit www.ChesapeakeSodaClean.com or call Stacey at 410-271-2652.

cruiser88 · 08-26-08, 08:13 PM

ok.....

05-03-08, 02:27 PM	#1
79fj40moneypit "Project Pat" Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Poorhouse, CT. Posts: 848	soda blast I was considering soda blasting for cleaning the 40 body but I hear about paint not sticking to the metal after. Is there some type of metal prep that has to be used after blasting? __________________ pat 79fj40 rebuild and 3B diesel conversion 85 fj60 gasser 00 Chevy 6.5 td 14' van 03 Camry 79 triumph T140 "It's a dogs life" aren't we all just dogs anyway?

05-03-08, 04:25 PM	#2
Wile E Coyote IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Lake Havasu and Kingman, AZ Posts: 1,240	Never heard that one. Perhaps I'm about to learn something? You know that soda will not remove rust, right? You'd have to switch to coal slag, alum oxide, etc for rust. __________________ ="Are you gonna sit there on that friggin computer all day or what?" The desert dwellin, roadrunner chasin, soooper-genius! '90 FJ 62, '08 Scion head unit, chopped quarters and rockers, bedlined exterior, and mostly stock. My soft wheeler and DD. '85 Dodge Ramcharger a little built, and a little beat. My hard wheeler.

05-03-08, 05:36 PM	#5
shotgun IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Topeka Ks TLCA# 11278 Posts: 158	anyone that soda blasts can use a formula that has an abrasive in it that will remove rust. Of coarse you would have to take measures to protect glass etc. __________________ IF IT FLYS IT DIES

05-03-08, 06:00 PM	#6
79fj40moneypit "Project Pat" Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Poorhouse, CT. Posts: 848	Really only looking for info on paint adhesion to soda blasted metal. I have new heritage rear quarters rockers and floors, so rust is gone just looking to clean all the paint off the body without sandblasting it. __________________ pat 79fj40 rebuild and 3B diesel conversion 85 fj60 gasser 00 Chevy 6.5 td 14' van 03 Camry 79 triumph T140 "It's a dogs life" aren't we all just dogs anyway?

05-05-08, 08:13 PM	#9
79fj40moneypit "Project Pat" Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Poorhouse, CT. Posts: 848	Yea rust never sleeps! We just slow it down some. Thanks for the links asked the soda blasting question there also so we'll see. My paint supplier told me about this problem but if you prep the surface after blasting I can't see why there would be a problem. __________________ pat 79fj40 rebuild and 3B diesel conversion 85 fj60 gasser 00 Chevy 6.5 td 14' van 03 Camry 79 triumph T140 "It's a dogs life" aren't we all just dogs anyway?

05-05-08, 09:46 PM	#10
Wile E Coyote IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Lake Havasu and Kingman, AZ Posts: 1,240	If this is a valid concern, I wonder if it's a pH thing, or a lack of surface 'bite' thing? If it's either, they both are easy fixes. __________________ ="Are you gonna sit there on that friggin computer all day or what?" The desert dwellin, roadrunner chasin, soooper-genius! '90 FJ 62, '08 Scion head unit, chopped quarters and rockers, bedlined exterior, and mostly stock. My soft wheeler and DD. '85 Dodge Ramcharger a little built, and a little beat. My hard wheeler.

05-06-08, 06:38 AM	#11
79fj40moneypit "Project Pat" Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Poorhouse, CT. Posts: 848	I have posted this question on [www.autobodystore.com] and had 2 replys, one reply was to make sure to sand the entire metal surface after blasting, and one that had paint problems? no other details although madia blasting was recomended. I may go that route. __________________ pat 79fj40 rebuild and 3B diesel conversion 85 fj60 gasser 00 Chevy 6.5 td 14' van 03 Camry 79 triumph T140 "It's a dogs life" aren't we all just dogs anyway?

05-06-08, 09:17 AM	#12
Wile E Coyote IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Lake Havasu and Kingman, AZ Posts: 1,240	Here's what google turned up this morning: This is a cut and paste from a Nova forum. "Well I contacted Sherwin Williams Automotive paint and this is what Rose Gasper, Customer Service Rep, had to say. "Application of a primer with minimal acid congertration such as etching fillers, vinyl wash, or metal preps, will react with sobium bicarbonare. This will emit carbon dioxide potentially causing blistering of the paint and then total delamination of the paint and undercoats". Then Rose Gasper wrote the following steps must be adhered to. Observe recommendations specified by the company that produces the soda and the maufacturer of the equipment used. Then before applying any refinish materials, thoroughly clean the surface with soap and water, preferably with a pressure washer, then dry. The third step is to inspect the surface for any white residue. If a residue is found repeat the second step. The last thing is after the surface is thoroughly clean, and no residue is found, follow manufactures specific recommendations for bare substrates. I hope this answers any questions you may have." The preceeding post in the same thread stated: "Warm water and vinegar will remove the residue. I add in a red scotchbrite and have had great results with small parts. I havn't done a full car yet. I also don't know any paint company that is going to warranty a paint job. When I was painting full time we had a problem with a color and called the jobber, they did replace the paint but wouldn't cover our time wasted." __________________ ="Are you gonna sit there on that friggin computer all day or what?" The desert dwellin, roadrunner chasin, soooper-genius! '90 FJ 62, '08 Scion head unit, chopped quarters and rockers, bedlined exterior, and mostly stock. My soft wheeler and DD. '85 Dodge Ramcharger a little built, and a little beat. My hard wheeler.

05-06-08, 06:19 PM	#13
79fj40moneypit "Project Pat" Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Poorhouse, CT. Posts: 848	Sounds iffy, I dont really want to spend a lot of time and cash and have my paint peel or blister, sounds like you could be real careful and still have problems. Although I talked to a guy at Aqua Blast today and he said that he blasts with Arm and Hammer blasting soda he says it has a a chemical in it that leaves the soda neutral? after he is done blasting he power washes the metal drys it sprays it with metal etch then washes it with soap and water. Lot of steps to get the powder off. __________________ pat 79fj40 rebuild and 3B diesel conversion 85 fj60 gasser 00 Chevy 6.5 td 14' van 03 Camry 79 triumph T140 "It's a dogs life" aren't we all just dogs anyway?

05-06-08, 07:16 PM	#14
iaintscared1969 RT Customs Vortec Junky Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Irving, Tx. TLCA# 17528 Posts: 1,664	I have used soda blasting in some of my builds. The only thing you have to tell the person or shop doing the paint work is that it has to be completly free of dust etc. Then it has to be wiped down thouroghly with vinegar. If you try to wipe it with a cleaning solvent all it will do is smear. Vinegar first then prep solvent. It will stick and it leaves a baby butt smooth surface. It will not remove rust though. You will need to take care of that before or after soda blast. Here is a link www.sodablasting.com Call them talk to Bill or Brian these are great guys to deal with and they will give you the straight from the horses mouth answer. __________________ Cool place to get all the cruiser crap you could want! http://cruisercrap.com 1989 FJ 62 4" Hell Creek Suspension, Bridgestone Duellers 33X12.50, Hummer sliders modified of course, HI-Lift Jack, Pioneer Equipment Rack, HFS 2.5 Shackles, Defender Light rack, 4 KC Rally 800 series lights, All new steering components,First responder kit, and a whole lotta stickers! Member: LSLC, DFW and Austin, BSLCA

06-02-08, 07:01 PM	#17
Degnol Noaccount Webwheeler Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansastitty TLCA# 14529 Posts: 6,479	Get it blasted, then wipe or spray it with 3M MetalPrep, wait, hose off and you have a perfect surface for paint. Ed __________________ There is nothing so depraved as a man in the depths of an ether binge '66FJ40, Fresh 2F, H42/Orion(By Poser...LCR4WD), ARB Front/rear(By Poser...LCR4WD), MetalTech Cage installed by Poser, Screw-ups fixed(by Poser) 4WDB Corvette Master, Mini Truck PS, 3.5" Lift, Warn 8274, 33s on stockers

06-03-08, 05:33 PM	#19
Degnol Noaccount Webwheeler Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansastitty TLCA# 14529 Posts: 6,479	Gee, 'Elk, thanks! As I recall, i have received some great paint advice from you in the past. You're a professional painter, aren't you? Ed __________________ There is nothing so depraved as a man in the depths of an ether binge '66FJ40, Fresh 2F, H42/Orion(By Poser...LCR4WD), ARB Front/rear(By Poser...LCR4WD), MetalTech Cage installed by Poser, Screw-ups fixed(by Poser) 4WDB Corvette Master, Mini Truck PS, 3.5" Lift, Warn 8274, 33s on stockers

08-26-08, 08:00 PM	#21
busterblastereast IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6	After Soda Blasting... As a soda blast industry professional, I have researched this subject to great legths. What I found was a product called Hold Tight 102 (www.holdtight.com). It is used worldwide as a surface after wash and used after blasting with ANY MEDIA. I am a dealer of this product and I'll be happy to sell you or any others in need this product. Visit www.ChesapeakeSodaClean.com or call Stacey at 410-271-2652.

08-26-08, 08:13 PM	#22
cruiser88 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: over here TLCA# 17319 Posts: 7,181	ok..... __________________ BLAH BLAH

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