4L60E

[chicago]

Is this REALLY the way I want to go?!
I stopped over at Levrett transmission today, and they were rather perplexed as to WHY I would go with the 4L60E as the trans choice for what I want to do with the rig...
Seems that BECAUSE it is electronically controlled this can yield more opportunity for burn out if everything isnt EXACTLY right with the wiring and computer interface.
They seemed to think that a non electronic control would be easier and a bit more fail safe. The biggest issue to get RIGHT on ,say, a 700R would be getting the cable adjusted correct, and even that can have sever consequences if not done properly.
I hate trannies!

Any comments to this?

K

[slvrbck]

The only thing I have to say about them is what I have been told.....and that is USE IT!!

If I could find a 5.3/4L60E, it would be in my 40 quick!

Derek and Tom at T-fab told me that if I want a motor/tranny combo that I want to keep and not worry about, it's that setup. One of them is using the 5.3, the other is using a 6.0 GM beast! And believe me, I saw them in action before, THEM CATS ARE MORE WIDE OPEN THAN I AM!!!

All of that being said, these guys are slapping them into rock buggies and the 4l60E is backed by an Atlas. I don't know about them in a trail/rock rig with the t-case doubler like yours is.

None of the cats in the 60 forum have any input on them??

[Bbumbl40]

Hmm... From what I know, which isn't much, either it works or it doesn't. I suspect what they're talking about is the tourque converter lockup control.

[chicago]

Thanks for the input.
Ive gotten a LOT of "that will be a GREAT set up" and the folks over at levrette tranny had been the only ones to question it.
I just got a little nervous when discussing it because I have a hard time screwing in a light bulb, let alone dealing with complex electrical issues associated with transmissions.

I hadnt posted in the 60 forum, but will.

K

[rusty_tlc]

Originally Posted by chicago

Thanks for the input.
Ive gotten a LOT of "that will be a GREAT set up" and the folks over at levrette tranny had been the only ones to question it.
I just got a little nervous when discussing it because I have a hard time screwing in a light bulb, let alone dealing with complex electrical issues associated with transmissions.

I hadnt posted in the 60 forum, but will.

K

You might want to post in the hardcore forum too.

[slvrbck]

Originally Posted by rusty_tlc

You might want to post in the hardcore forum too.

Poke around on PBB also, just about every engine/trans/xfer case combo has been done over there.

[chicago]

It'd be really nice to NOT have to deal with the electrical, but IIRC the biggest advantage to using the 4L60E is the better performance.
Its not like it hasnt been DONE numerous times, but that was a rather ominous reaction that I got from them on this set up...

Caused me some pause!

K

[locrwln1]

I'm not sure I understand what their deal is. If you are getting the computer reflashed, which you are, what could be the problem? The computer will/should take care of the tranny also, so the "wiring" should be all factory, right? That motor and tranny belong together.

Jack

[chicago]

Originally Posted by locrwln1

I'm not sure I understand what their deal is. If you are getting the computer reflashed, which you are, what could be the problem? The computer will/should take care of the tranny also, so the "wiring" should be all factory, right? That motor and tranny belong together.

Jack

Yes!
Well, Ill be getting an aftermarket harness, but its all the same gear, same year etc. The two components came from different donors, but they are essentially the same, and yes, I will be having the computer reflashed. I guess the concern is that something in the computer MAY not reset right, or something along those lines...
I donno, but they had said they would call me back with more info and they never did.
I posted up in the 60 board, and got a few more..."I got that tranny and love it."..."Might wanna upgrade the clutch packs, this, that etc."
I donno...Ill just stick with the original shop quote from Transcraft.

K

[locrwln1]

Originally Posted by chicago

Yes!
Well, Ill be getting an aftermarket harness, but its all the same gear, same year etc. The two components came from different donors, but they are essentially the same, and yes, I will be having the computer reflashed. I guess the concern is that something in the computer MAY not reset right, or something along those lines...
I donno, but they had said they would call me back with more info and they never did.
I posted up in the 60 board, and got a few more..."I got that tranny and love it."..."Might wanna upgrade the clutch packs, this, that etc."
I donno...Ill just stick with the original shop quote from Transcraft.

K

Yeah, I understood that the motor and tranny were from different vehicles, but as far as the computer is concerned, those two components "belong" together. Again, I fail to see the concern. GM spent millions on R&D on those two components "talking" to each other, so I have to ask again, what could be the problem? The wiring is still going to be factory for all intents and purposes.

Jack

[chicago]

Originally Posted by locrwln1

Yeah, I understood that the motor and tranny were from different vehicles, but as far as the computer is concerned, those two components "belong" together. Again, I fail to see the concern. GM spent millions on R&D on those two components "talking" to each other, so I have to ask again, what could be the problem? The wiring is still going to be factory for all intents and purposes.

Jack

Are you thinking there might be a "fishy" smell from this inquiry?

k

[locrwln1]

Originally Posted by chicago

Are you thinking there might be a "fishy" smell from this inquiry?

k

Maybe not so much as "fishy", I just don't understand what the problem is. I could see there being a problem if you were using an old carb motor and were relying on a "stand alone" computer to try and operate the tranny, but you are using all factory controls. I just don't get it.

You have to use a speed sensor for the motor to work, the ECU uses that information along with all of the other sensors on the motor to decide what the tranny needs to do. Again, I just don't see where there would be a problem. Once you have the computer reflashed, it is going to think it is running whatever year GM vehicle the motor/computer are.

Jack

[chicago]

Ya know, the MASS opinion is that there SHOULDN'T be an issue. That also makes sense to me as well...Im just gonna run it as planned. The post over on the 60 board is getting the same response from people who are RUNNING the same set up (virtually)...
They WERE supposed to "look into this" a bit more and get back to me...I still haven't heard from them.

Screw it.

Thanks Jack!

[slvrbck]

Originally Posted by chicago

Ya know, the MASS opinion is that there SHOULDN'T be an issue. That also makes sense to me as well...Im just gonna run it as planned. The post over on the 60 board is getting the same response from people who are RUNNING the same set up (virtually)...
They WERE supposed to "look into this" a bit more and get back to me...I still haven't heard from them.

Screw it.

Thanks Jack!

That's what I'm talking about brother!!! It's still a cruiser at heart....if it breaks, SH!T'L BUFF OUT!!!!

[Bbumbl40]

I'm with Jack on the wiring and computer. Once you have the computer programed for the tranny and you use a good wiring harness, you'll be golden. By doing it that way your avoiding a bunch of issues that can pop up with cable and semi electrontic systems. What you've done would be my first choice in setups.

[NVFJ60]

I don't know if this will help or not. I put a 700 in my 60 and it lasted about 2 months. I was warned they can't handle the big tires and heat and all the stuff that comes along with offroading without a major after market build up. Instead of spending the money a rebuild of the 700 I opted for the TH400. I wish I had the over drive, but it has been 100% bullet proof. I can cruise down the hwy at 65 or 70. When I originally did this whole thing I asked about the 460 and 480 and the electronics was the only thing that kept me form going that route. I've been happy.Hope this helps. Good luck.

[chicago]

Originally Posted by NVFJ60

I don't know if this will help or not. I put a 700 in my 60 and it lasted about 2 months. I was warned they can't handle the big tires and heat and all the stuff that comes along with offroading without a major after market build up. Instead of spending the money a rebuild of the 700 I opted for the TH400. I wish I had the over drive, but it has been 100% bullet proof. I can cruise down the hwy at 65 or 70. When I originally did this whole thing I asked about the 460 and 480 and the electronics was the only thing that kept me form going that route. I've been happy.Hope this helps. Good luck.

Thanks.
Did you notice a performance loss from the TH400 and losing the OD?
I may be simplifying this, but it would seem that once you set the shifter up, it would seem that you just plug into the harness and youre good.
I guess that Ill find out within the next year.
Some have said that an up grade to the clutches is a good idea too...
CHA CHING, CHA CHING, CHA CHING.
Good thing Im not in a hurry.
(unless disaster strikes in the stock gear...)

[chicago]

Originally Posted by Bbumbl40

I'm with Jack on the wiring and computer. Once you have the computer programed for the tranny and you use a good wiring harness, you'll be golden. By doing it that way your avoiding a bunch of issues that can pop up with cable and semi electrontic systems. What you've done would be my first choice in setups.

Thanks Shawn...
That helps too.
Weather you know it or not, You and Jack are gonna be helping me drop this thing in, so your opinion is helpful!

K

[chicago]

I just wish that I could tear into this myself and NOT have to take it in!!!!!

[locrwln1]

Originally Posted by chicago

Thanks Shawn...
That helps too.
Weather you know it or not, You and Jack are gonna be helping me drop this thing in, so your opinion is helpful!

K

Just let me know when.

Originally Posted by chicago

I just wish that I could tear into this myself and NOT have to take it in!!!!!

There are a lot of videos and books available. I'm just throwing that out there...

From what I understand, there a one or two specialized tools and then all you have to worry about is a clean work area, keep everything clean and organized.

Jack

[NVFJ60]

Originally Posted by chicago

Thanks.
Did you notice a performance loss from the TH400 and losing the OD?
I may be simplifying this, but it would seem that once you set the shifter up, it would seem that you just plug into the harness and youre good.
I guess that Ill find out within the next year.
Some have said that an up grade to the clutches is a good idea too...
CHA CHING, CHA CHING, CHA CHING.
Good thing Im not in a hurry.
(unless disaster strikes in the stock gear...)

No performance loss. Maybe some MPG loss, but I didn't care. Its not a DD. If there was one thing, I was so used to hearing the engine at a lower noise level when the tranny would shift into OD that I was constantly thinking I was in a lower gear. I got used to it after driving it a little. My goal was simplicity when setting up my wagon. Mostly because I am horrible at electrical. I had a 90's chevy just stop on me up near Highland Lakes. It was the computer. It cost me $500.00 to have it towed to Bear Valley. So on this I went with as simple as I could. That way it would be fairly simple to diagnose on the trail and fix. I have been very happy with the performance, and the cost was much less. God Luck.

[chicago]

Originally Posted by locrwln1

Just let me know when.



There are a lot of videos and books available. I'm just throwing that out there...

From what I understand, there a one or two specialized tools and then all you have to worry about is a clean work area, keep everything clean and organized.

Jack

Is it something that you think that I could tackle?
I know that YOURE down right crazy AEB trying to set up your diffs, so I may be asking the wrong person.
Ive never really bothered to look into it (doing it myself) cuz Ive just always heard that it was a nightmare and its just better left to the pros.
That is a BIG FAWKING component to screw up!

K

[locrwln1]

Originally Posted by chicago

Is it something that you think that I could tackle?
I know that YOURE down right crazy AEB trying to set up your diffs, so I may be asking the wrong person.
Ive never really bothered to look into it (doing it myself) cuz Ive just always heard that it was a nightmare and its just better left to the pros.
That is a BIG FAWKING component to screw up!

K

I would get one of the videos and then make a decision. I didn't have a video when I went to do my diffs. I think it would have helped tremendously.

Here is a manual: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4L60E...1%7C240%3A1318

And here is a video: http://www.transmissionvideos.com/

Jack

[rusty_tlc]

Originally Posted by locrwln1

I would get one of the videos and then make a decision. I didn't have a video when I went to do my diffs. I think it would have helped tremendously.

Jack

You were also under pressure to get it done. I think if you had a spare diff you could take your time with it and not worry about when it gets done things might be different.

[orangefj45]

got your pm keith and i have a few things i'd like to add to this thread:

1) i don't know why a shop would say not to use the transmission that came with the engine. seems strange to me. sure, there are more working parts in an "E" compared to the mechanical 700, but if it's built properly, cooled properly and the computer is flashed properly, you should'nt see any problems that you would'nt expect from the 700. electrical issues can be a pita, but that's what scanners are for........you can buy a cheapy and use it for your engine and trans. mechanically, the two transmissions are very similar and share 90% of the parts in common. the valve body on the "E" is more complex and the electrical items ( solenoids, sensors, MLPS, EPC and pressure manifold ) can add cost to a rebuild should they need to be replaced.

if it were me, i'd run the 4L60E

2) i don't think you have to deal with smog laws where you are but in my little conrner of this country, i have to go with what the smog laws say. part of that is that the transmission either needs to be original for the vehicle or it needs to be from the same year or newer as the engine you're transplanting into the rig. so a th700 would flunk big time and would need to be replaced with a 4L60E if you had to pass smog. a th350 or th400 would flunk as well..........
so if you ever plan on selling the rig, it's something to keep in mind.

3) i would NOT recommend that you attempt to build the transmission yourself. i know you're mechanically inclined and i have seen the work you have done to the wagon in person. you and your abilities are not the issue here.
4L60Es are not a transmission you want to start with if you think you want to rebuild an automatic trans. it's like getting into a 10 second drag car without knowing how to drive ( notice is said 10 second and not 7 second bacuse it's more realistic ). sure, you might pull it off but chances are that you won't. i know there are lots of instructional videos and books out there but they don't tell you all the little tricks and intricate knowledge it takes to rebuild one of these units. let the pros handle it. save your money where you know it's a sure bet. the last thing you want/need to do is to try to rebuild the trans yourself only to fail and then have to pay a shop to do the work over again, possibly having to replace parts over again.....
i'm speaking from personal experience when i say this. i ran a transmission shop for 7 years and sold transmission componsnts for an additional 5 years. i have seen numerous people try to build autos themselves only to fail and end up spending more money than having it built at a reputable shop the first time around.
if you were taliing about a th350 or a th400, then i'd probably tell you to give it a try. but not a th700 or worse yet a 4L60E.

enough for now.

hth

georg @ valley hybrids

[chicago]

Originally Posted by orangefj45

got your pm keith and i have a few things i'd like to add to this thread:

1) i don't know why a shop would say not to use the transmission that came with the engine. seems strange to me. sure, there are more working parts in an "E" compared to the mechanical 700, but if it's built properly, cooled properly and the computer is flashed properly, you should'nt see any problems that you would'nt expect from the 700. electrical issues can be a pita, but that's what scanners are for........you can buy a cheapy and use it for your engine and trans. mechanically, the two transmissions are very similar and share 90% of the parts in common. the valve body on the "E" is more complex and the electrical items ( solenoids, sensors, MLPS, EPC and pressure manifold ) can add cost to a rebuild should they need to be replaced.

if it were me, i'd run the 4L60E

2) i don't think you have to deal with smog laws where you are but in my little conrner of this country, i have to go with what the smog laws say. part of that is that the transmission either needs to be original for the vehicle or it needs to be from the same year or newer as the engine you're transplanting into the rig. so a th700 would flunk big time and would need to be replaced with a 4L60E if you had to pass smog. a th350 or th400 would flunk as well..........
so if you ever plan on selling the rig, it's something to keep in mind.

3) i would NOT recommend that you attempt to build the transmission yourself. i know you're mechanically inclined and i have seen the work you have done to the wagon in person. you and your abilities are not the issue here.
4L60Es are not a transmission you want to start with if you think you want to rebuild an automatic trans. it's like getting into a 10 second drag car without knowing how to drive ( notice is said 10 second and not 7 second bacuse it's more realistic ). sure, you might pull it off but chances are that you won't. i know there are lots of instructional videos and books out there but they don't tell you all the little tricks and intricate knowledge it takes to rebuild one of these units. let the pros handle it. save your money where you know it's a sure bet. the last thing you want/need to do is to try to rebuild the trans yourself only to fail and then have to pay a shop to do the work over again, possibly having to replace parts over again.....
i'm speaking from personal experience when i say this. i ran a transmission shop for 7 years and sold transmission componsnts for an additional 5 years. i have seen numerous people try to build autos themselves only to fail and end up spending more money than having it built at a reputable shop the first time around.
if you were taliing about a th350 or a th400, then i'd probably tell you to give it a try. but not a th700 or worse yet a 4L60E.

enough for now.

hth

georg @ valley hybrids

Point taken!
GOD I just HATE taking it to the "MAN", but...longevity has to come before the ego or the pocket book for this type of activity.
I appreciate the honesty Georg!

What would your friend in the Bay area charge for a total re-build...just out of curosity?
Like I said...Im not sure that its necessary, but...

Thanks

Keith

[orangefj45]

yeah, sometimes you have to put pride aside and pay up. i have built a few autos yet i still let my buddy henry build everything that goes into my customers' rigs or mine.
henry charges $400 labor for a rebuild, plus parts. i can get you the parts at cost, which including the rebuild kit, the hd sun gear shell, bushings, bearings, washers, HD band, filter usually start at about $275 and go up from there depending on the need for any hard parts or other items like electrical components.

[chicago]

Originally Posted by orangefj45

yeah, sometimes you have to put pride aside and pay up. i have built a few autos yet i still let my buddy henry build everything that goes into my customers' rigs or mine.
henry charges $400 labor for a rebuild, plus parts. i can get you the parts at cost, which including the rebuild kit, the hd sun gear shell, bushings, bearings, washers, HD band, filter usually start at about $275 and go up from there depending on the need for any hard parts or other items like electrical components.

Well, let take a look at that route. Im thinking that it might be worth the ride down to the Bay area if you trust this individual. Plus, right off the top Id be saving at least a little bit...
Im not too sure about the shops that Ive gone to thus far.

Lemme know

Thanks a ton Georg

K

[orangefj45]

hey keith.
i know it's a long drive but you could keep going and spend a night out at the coast. i'm sure the little lady would'nt mind that part......
i have known henry for 15 years and his work is excellent. that's why i don't go anywhere else. if you decide to have him work on the trans, i will call him and set it all up........


georg

[chicago]

Originally Posted by orangefj45

hey keith.
i know it's a long drive but you could keep going and spend a night out at the coast. i'm sure the little lady would'nt mind that part......
i have known henry for 15 years and his work is excellent. that's why i don't go anywhere else. if you decide to have him work on the trans, i will call him and set it all up........


georg

Yeah...
Ive seen a few of your rigs, and if YOU trust him...
Ive just been hitting the local shops none of whom know anything about cruisers. The first quote I got, the guy was straight up about what needed to be done while in there sort of thing.
I appreciated that, but...what happens when he gets IN THERE.
For a rebuild and the upgraded components, youre thinking in the neighborhood of around 700.00?
Just trying to gauge the finances..
Youre right about the lil woman and I staying down at the coast...I think she'd dig that.

Thanks!
A really appreciate it.

K