locrwln's new ride.... - Page 4

krokarthecrooked · 02-15-09, 03:25 PM

um not totally sure we all on the same page as far as the set up goes then again maybe we are but yes it is simple and yes it does flex but the way its set up isnt like the normal half or 3/4 elliptical set up. now that being said i very much agree K.I.S.S and store bought cant be beat for the most part but heck im a redneck and ill try anything once twice if it works hehe. The DAn and John road show are going to do some experimenting with this set up and see what it does. of course we will do all testing near home so if somethin does happen we can get it back to the house very easy.

Dan

locrwln1 · 02-16-09, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILLD420

When I started building 4x4's he told me stories of all the stuff they did back in the early 70's. Many of those statements still ring true. Sure, ellipticals, buggy springs etc. whatever you want to call them... They flex great and sure do absorb the bumps at high speed, but they come with some interesting handling issues.

Jack can back me on this. How else do you explain a 5,000lb 4 door sedan that can not only catch, but out perform a car 1/2 it's weight, but driven by someone who doesn't understand vehicle dynamics and doesn't care to.

I have to agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by krokarthecrooked

um not totally sure we all on the same page as far as the set up goes then again maybe we are but yes it is simple and yes it does flex but the way its set up isnt like the normal half or 3/4 elliptical set up. now that being said i very much agree K.I.S.S and store bought cant be beat for the most part but heck im a redneck and ill try anything once twice if it works hehe. The DAn and John road show are going to do some experimenting with this set up and see what it does. of course we will do all testing near home so if somethin does happen we can get it back to the house very easy.

Dan

Dan, I like to tell a story of a big buck rig vs. a low buck rig.

We were on Fordyce and had come up to "transfer-case hill." A guy was with us with a custom fj40, it was fully linked w/coilovers, 39.5 boggers, gears, arbs, v8, auto, etc. I watched that thing drive off of a 20 degree ramp, and nearly max out a 30 degree one.

My buddy had a bolt on 6 inch lift for his cherokee with the stock limited slip in the rear axle, my old half treaded 33's and that was it.

The 40 spent 30 minutes trying to climb the hill and tried every line and every combination he could think of and it took everything he had to get up that hill. My buddy rolls up to the hill and walks right up it. The big difference, and I have seen it time and time again, too much flex on the 40.

My old Wrangler had a very balanced suspension, just a basic SOA with springs that I put together, it would do a 1000 on a 20 degree ramp. My 4runner was a bolt on lift. I never had a problem on a trail where I said "if I only had more flex."

The problem with too much flex is that the vehicle not only becomes unbalanced, but you can loose "pounds per square inch"/contact pressure on the tires. If there is no contact pressure (like the ultra flexy 40), then the tires have no traction. All the fancy tires, lockers, etc, will do you no good if the tires aren't gripping. So, many times there is such a thing as too much flex.

Now I'm not 100% sure which "eliptical" spring set up you are talking about, but if I read your post correctly, you are going to attach a single main spring to the frame, attach the shackle to that and then your regular spring to the shackle. Correct? If that is the case, not only do they want to "unload" going down hill, but they will allow your axle to try and crawl under your rig while hill climbing. That breaks parts and they won't climb the smallest ledge.

I was rockcrawling before SOA's were the thing (1994), and we thought they were too much, then SOA's were the big thing and then everyone went off the hook and started working on their suspensions and flex was king, to where people started figuring out that "balance" is more important than ultimate flex.

I have seen them all and none of the cheap flex systems work. Trust me.

Now you can go full 1/4 eliptical with links and those work great, but again you have to get the link geometry right or they don't work either, I have seen that too.

Jack

rusty_tlc · 02-16-09, 09:35 AM

I've been reading up on link suspensions.
From what I can tell the 1/4 elip linked suspension is great, as long as you have the time and know how to dial it in with the right shocks and leaf packs.

Oh yeah you have to get the link geometry just right too.

chicago · 02-16-09, 10:55 AM

IMO...
I really like the plain and SIMPLE leaf spring set up.
No muss, no fuss, just slap it on and GO!
Coils function really nice, but then you have the control arms to hang up, bend and possibly break.
Ive got the AAL's in all 4's of my rig, and it might be a little stiffer than most people would like, but theyve done great at maintaining their shape, and I feel that my BOAT flexes rather well for the behemoth that it is.
Leaf packs are TRIED AND TRUE. The biggest worrie you have with them is either breaking the main leaf, or the center pin...Or having an adequate wrap bar...

I see all this fancy stuff that LOOKS AWESOME when installed, but...I like simplicity. Doesnt get the tech props, or the OOOH'S AND AAAAH'S, but its relieable, simple and easy to fix.

K

slvrbck · 02-16-09, 11:59 AM

I'm a leaf spring guy as well, but the more I study on link'd supsensions, I think that is the ticket. Myself and Rustytlc have been checking with the pros on another dark horse site locally, and I am glad he posted a thread about links over there. It has answered alot of my questions...(thanks Rusty)

After riding in a comp buggy all day yesterday out at Prison Hill, links are the way to go(if you have the $$$$$) I asked alot of questions and was constantly trying to look behind the seats as we were crawling to see how the 3 link was working. The setup on this particular 3 link uses a Y-link as the 3rd link, and it was AWESOME!! THe way his buggy is setup is really nice! Very predictable, smooth, and those Red Label BFG Krawlers were amazing.

If anybody knows where a decent priced 2 seater buggy chassis is, let me know.HAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!

jon@svwbarchitects.c · 02-16-09, 03:02 PM

If you want some info on link suspensions here is a good link: 4 link for dummies - Northern California Bronco Club . They have a lot of info as does Pirates. Like anything they both have there advantages.

krokarthecrooked · 02-16-09, 05:21 PM

WEll yes Jack you are right on the link set up i was refering to and im still learning and in the process of learning all i can so all the input and stories help me learn and i am always appreciateive of advice from you guys cause i am still learning does and donts hehe always a learning process you stop learning then you might as well say you know it all and quit Wheeling then become an advice columnist so Tyvm all for the advice and the lessons always APPRECIATED

Dan

WILLD420 · 02-25-09, 10:11 PM

Any progress?

It's been 3 whole days since you got back. I was expecting a call for scrap iron by now......

chicago · 02-26-09, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILLD420

Any progress?

It's been 3 whole days since you got back. I was expecting a call for scrap iron by now......

You have some scrap!?!?!?!?!

locrwln1 · 02-26-09, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILLD420

Any progress?

It's been 3 whole days since you got back. I was expecting a call for scrap iron by now......

I figured I would do that this weekend.

Let me know, we have a thing on Saturday around 9am, shouldn't last more than two hours, we should be good after that.

Jack

WILLD420 · 02-27-09, 12:47 AM

I'll be moving, but I have a little bit of iron laying around that might need a new home....

locrwln1 · 03-31-09, 09:04 PM

Just a little update, I picked up a complete rear axle from an IFS mini truck. The best part I paid $40 and it was loose, so no hard work for me. I do need to figure out the gear ratio, but that is cool.

So I now have a front axle complete from an '84 and now a IFS rear axle. That way I can build the axles and then roll them under the truck when I am ready.

Jack

WILLD420 · 04-01-09, 01:18 AM

Zoom Image

That's all I gotta say about that....

locrwln1 · 04-01-09, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILLD420

Zoom Image

That's all I gotta say about that....

Why thank you sir.

Jack

rusty_tlc · 04-01-09, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by locrwln1

Just a little update, I picked up a complete rear axle from an IFS mini truck. The best part I paid $40 and it was loose, so no hard work for me. I do need to figure out the gear ratio, but that is cool.

So I now have a front axle complete from an '84 and now a IFS rear axle. That way I can build the axles and then roll them under the truck when I am ready.

Jack

Is there an advantage to the IFS axle?

CaliCruiser · 04-01-09, 09:39 AM

3" wider I believe.

slvrbck · 04-01-09, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliCruiser

3" wider I believe.

Yep, that's the one I have 3 link'd. I think it is 58.5 WMS to WMS

poor boy pulling · 04-01-09, 03:29 PM

i think mini is 57 and IFS is 60 IIRC

locrwln1 · 04-01-09, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusty_tlc

Is there an advantage to the IFS axle?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliCruiser

3" wider I believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slvrbck

Yep, that's the one I have 3 link'd. I think it is 58.5 WMS to WMS

Quote:

Originally Posted by poor boy pulling

i think mini is 57 and IFS is 60 IIRC

The stock mini straight axles WMS front is 55.5", the rear axle is 55", the IFS rear axle is 58" wms. The other benefits are bigger brakes and bigger tubes on the housing (supposedly a little stronger). With the stock 55" axle, with big tires and flex the tires rub in the inner fenders/frame in the rear.

PBP, the taco rear axle is 60".

Jack

WILLD420 · 04-01-09, 11:26 PM

Any time....

Nice to see you working on Drippy again. You and I have the same luck when it comes to planning trips away from home here lately. Seems we both plan things on weekends when it's raining/cold/snowing/wind a blowin/ etc. etc....

WILLD420 · 05-25-09, 04:47 PM

Drippy get the New Shoes Blues yet?

locrwln1 · 05-26-09, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILLD420

Drippy get the New Shoes Blues yet?

Yes, she is now sportin' 35's baby. I just have to find the time to pull the rest of the studs out of the tires, but can't argue with the price.

I haven't had a chance to drive it to see how it handles the extra size.

It does look a lot better with the 35's on it though. I will try and get some pictures posted up later.

Jack

chicago · 05-26-09, 07:09 PM

THose look awesome with 35's
How much for and WHAT did you get

locrwln1 · 05-26-09, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicago

THose look awesome with 35's
How much for and WHAT did you get

Yep it does.

I bought them from Will, he bought some different ones and these are studded, so I have to pull the studs out, but he gave me a good deal and we were able to mount them at his house, so the price was definitely right. Plus I balanced them with air soft pellets the heavy duty ones. I haven't had a chance to drive it, but Drippy rides so bad now, I can't imagine it being worse.

Onto the pics.

p.s. I noticed from the pics, that you can see that Drippy is living up to it's name.

chicago · 05-26-09, 08:29 PM

sniff...sniff....
Its beautiful!

K

slvrbck · 05-27-09, 06:33 AM

Lookin' good!! When are you planning on unleashing that beast??

locrwln1 · 05-27-09, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicago

sniff...sniff....
Its beautiful!

K

Thanks.

Let's just say that I got all four tires for less than the price on one 35" tire. I was going to hold out for 37's, but I couldn't pass up the deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slvrbck

Lookin' good!! When are you planning on unleashing that beast??

The build probably won't start in earnest until this winter. In the mean time, I will continue to buy what I can when I can.

Like most people, there are other things that have precedence over Drippy, so I have to wait until I have "play" money.

Jack

rusty_tlc · 05-27-09, 09:06 AM

Very nice.

WILLD420 · 05-27-09, 08:52 PM

Nice. I think it has the perfect stance just like it is. Of course, I'm partial to the big tire, low lift look.

I forgot that thing had overloads on all 4 corners for the lift.... Hopefully it doesn't shake too bad. Of course, if you bought those 5.29's you would never get fast enough for them to shake...

locrwln1 · 05-28-09, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusty_tlc

Very nice.

Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILLD420

Nice. I think it has the perfect stance just like it is. Of course, I'm partial to the big tire, low lift look.

I forgot that thing had overloads on all 4 corners for the lift.... Hopefully it doesn't shake too bad. Of course, if you bought those 5.29's you would never get fast enough for them to shake...

Me too. I am only going to lift it enough to clear the crossover steering (when I buy it). Between the overloads and shackles, I think it has been lifted somewhere in the 2-2.5" range. I am going to put the rears up front and pick up some other springs for the rear. If I can keep the lift in the 3" range and cut whatever rubs, I will be happy.

I think it will be just fine with the stock 4.37's. If I was going with 37's, then I would venture into gearing, but it will stay the way it is with the 35's. I just have to get a few minutes to take it for a spin to see how it handles the larger size.

Jack