BBCNN Run: Fordyce 7-12-08

[chicago]

Awesome pics Dan!
That pic of Sean and Andy hiking...Is that one of the winch hills you guyz were talking about?
You all said that its a beautiful trail, and from what I can tell even from the pics...spectacular! Must be even more amazing in person.

K

[locrwln1]

Originally Posted by chicago

Awesome pics Dan!
That pic of Sean and Andy hiking...Is that one of the winch hills you guyz were talking about?
You all said that its a beautiful trail, and from what I can tell even from the pics...spectacular! Must be even more amazing in person.

K

That looks like winch hill 1 to me.

And yes it is one of those places that the pictures don't do it justice, you have to be able to look all around to really appreciate it.

Jack

[rusty_tlc]

Originally Posted by CaliCruiser

Oh snap, I am supposed to run this trail in my wagon this weekend. We'll see how I do!

Thanks for the pictures guys

Dylan

With your new Drive train you should be fine, it will take some spotting in a few places.

Originally Posted by krokarthecrooked

Looks like great fun all cant wait to get my 40 sprung over and locked in front glad there was no serious carnage on the trail cant wait to try it out

Dan

You will be at a serious disadvantage without some lower gearing. Even Andy with his SM420 said it was the first time he wished he had lower gears, he has a lot of technical trail experience.

Originally Posted by chicago

Awesome pics Dan!
That pic of Sean and Andy hiking...Is that one of the winch hills you guyz were talking about?
You all said that its a beautiful trail, and from what I can tell even from the pics...spectacular! Must be even more amazing in person.

K

Shawn let me ride passenger on this trail soon after I joined BBCNN. It inspired me to immediately start throwing money at my FJ40 like I had it. Driving my rig through this trail was the completion of a project that has taken me the better part of four years, uncountable hours, and a lot of cash.

Originally Posted by locrwln1

That looks like winch hill 1 to me.

And yes it is one of those places that the pictures don't do it justice, you have to be able to look all around to really appreciate it.

Jack

Yes that is WH#1 and yes you really do need to be there to appreciate it. Every turn in the trail has something, either a panoramic vista, strange rock formation, or just a peek a boo view of Fordyce Creek through the trees.

[CaliCruiser]

Cool thanks for the info Dan, I hope I do OK!

Dylan

[450 DUDE]

Nice work fellas!

Super cool pics , thanks...

ken

[Cruiserdrew]

Wow, Dylan. Nothing like jumping into the fire. There are a couple of places I can thinkof, that a long wheelbase and very low gearing will be an advantage. Watch out for the top of WH3. Good luck!

[CaliCruiser]

Wow. What a trail. . . that was some serious wheelin'!

Dylan

[Cruiserdrew]

Originally Posted by CaliCruiser

Wow. What a trail. . . that was some serious wheelin'!

Dylan

So let's hear the story of what happened.

[chicago]

Originally Posted by Cruiserdrew

So let's hear the story of what happened.

NO CRAP!
Cant just chime in, and drop a BOMB like that with no follow up!
SPILL IT!



K

[rusty_tlc]

Originally Posted by CaliCruiser

Wow. What a trail. . . that was some serious wheelin'!

Dylan

We want details and pictures.

[CaliCruiser]

Well the guy we were supposed to meet up with was running late so we were all ready to go once he pulled up at dark. The first Jeep Jamboree is this weekend on the Rubicon so it was pretty packed on Fordyce and every camp we rolled up on was packed so we kept moving. We finally made it to winch hill 1 at two in the morning and made it up to the top by 3:30.

On the way up I popped two driver side knuckle studs and blew up my front passenger tire. I winched up the last part up at the top and we reset the bead on the tire. When the tire blew up I thought I lost a birf or front shaft, when I got out at the top I was happy to see that my sidewall was intact and I just lost the bead. We continued on and got to bed at 430 AM.

to be continued. . .

[chicago]

Originally Posted by CaliCruiser

Well the guy we were supposed to meet up with was running late so we were all ready to go once he pulled up at dark. The first Jeep Jamboree is this weekend on the Rubicon so it was pretty packed on Fordyce and every camp we rolled up on was packed so we kept moving. We finally made it to winch hill 1 at two in the morning and made it up to the top by 3:30.

On the way up I popped two driver side knuckle studs and blew up my front passenger tire. I winched up the last part up at the top and we reset the bead on the tire. When the tire blew up I thought I lost a birf or front shaft, when I got out at the top I was happy to see that my sidewall was intact and I just lost the bead. We continued on and got to bed at 430 AM.

to be continued. . .

FAWKER!!!!!!
SPILL IT! SPIIIIIILLLL IIIIIIT!
Youre KILLING me D!
Im on the edge of my seat. This is a realy page turner. It keeps me tuning back in like my favorite soap opera.

K

[rusty_tlc]

Originally Posted by chicago

FAWKER!!!!!!
SPILL IT! SPIIIIIILLLL IIIIIIT!
Youre KILLING me D!
Im on the edge of my seat. This is a realy page turner. It keeps me tuning back in like my favorite soap opera.

K

If he keeps this up we're going to have to give him a nuggy next time we see him.

[chicago]

Originally Posted by rusty_tlc

If he keeps this up we're going to have to give him a nuggy next time we see him.

And a WEDGIE!!!!!!

[spressomon]

Originally Posted by CaliCruiser

Well the guy we were supposed to meet up with was running late so we were all ready to go once he pulled up at dark. The first Jeep Jamboree is this weekend on the Rubicon so it was pretty packed on Fordyce and every camp we rolled up on was packed so we kept moving. We finally made it to winch hill 1 at two in the morning and made it up to the top by 3:30.

On the way up I popped two driver side knuckle studs and blew up my front passenger tire. I winched up the last part up at the top and we reset the bead on the tire. When the tire blew up I thought I lost a birf or front shaft, when I got out at the top I was happy to see that my sidewall was intact and I just lost the bead. We continued on and got to bed at 430 AM.

to be continued. . .

What? Doing it in the daylight wasn't challenging enough for ya?

[Cruiserdrew]

So how much damage to the knuckle? How did you fix it?

What route did you go up winch hill 1--ie did you take the winch hill or the bypass? What did you winch to?

Where did you camp? I ask because not far from WH1 is Pine Sluice, and right at the top of that, is the great site we stayed at beside the river.

Any body damage?

You got to do better than you have so far Dylan.

Spill the beans or write a full trail report.

[CaliCruiser]

Sorry ladies I was at work when I started typing this morning and the boss showed up.

Anyway after reseting the bead we went about 100 yards down the trail and wrapped around to the right and camped there Saturday morning. I did not see the bypass so we went straight up the gut right up the center. The guys I were with were in Toyota Truggys with 40's and crazy stuff so they didn't have any problems and I winched to them after I started lifting tires 4-6 feet in the air. I did not discover the knuckle stud breakage until the morning when I was doing my routine checks. I swapped in a spare knuckle before we continued. Later that Saturday morning we woke up and packed up quick after a big breakfast to get ahead of the crowd coming up winch hill one. The second water crossing camping was packed so we kept going on. We wheeled up winch hill 2 with no problem and continued on our trek for camping.

We ended up camping at the same spot you guys did where you take the left and go down that hill and camp by the waterfall. What a great camping spot! We lounged around that day and wheeled up the hill later that afternoon to check the action up by Cisco Grove and watch the drunks take the hard lines up to the left. One crazy ass 4 door jeep rolled and hydro-locked his motor and one guy in a badass dodge powerwagon rolled his rig twice going out Cisco Grove just on the other side of the river.

Sunday we drove up winch hill 3 and hung out there for awhile and watched the traffic come through. I took one look at the obstacle and said, "Nah, better not". What a challenge, but I think winch hill one is harder. I definitely want to build my rig more and give both another shot in the daylight. After hanging at WH3 for awhile we decided to just go back out Cisco Grove to I80 and take the easy way out since we didn't know what WH4 or WH5 looked like or what the traffic would be like.

Total carnage was the driver side knuckle, tire, rear bumper, and a few scrapes underneath. I took one tiny little shot to the body above the driver tail light and a few shots in front of the rear bumper end caps once they fell off. No damage to the body other than that.

I am going to have my knuckles drilled and tapped for the 9/16" ARP Dana 44 knuckle studs and upgrade a few little things on the front end. I still want to do Longs and locker but I still need to do little things like ring gear protection and the afore mentioned stud upgrade along with a axle rebuild.

The trip proved to be an incredible challenge for my big wagon but I fell in love with the new gears and don't think I would have been able to do it without them and the good spotting I had from my group. One other thing to go along with the front axle upgrade is the ability to run 37"+ tires. Some of those holes are deep and I think that even a 37 would have made a HUGE difference over the 35's.

I'm down to go again after I get some work done.

Thats enough rambling for now. . .

Dylan

[Cruiserdrew]

Good report.

WH4 and WH5 would have been cake after WH1.

The knuckle breakage is unfortunate, and hopefully did not ruin the knuckle. Luke Porter has a new solution for making a 6 stud knuckle that you may want to check out before you do any drilling and tapping. You could also do some 6 stud knuckles from TG. I just set up a set of those and they are nice.

We did not try the watercrossing to the Cisco Grove bail out, but we did go look at it. That water was fairly deep and fast even with the low flows.

The bypass of WH3 is doable, but the main hard spot is scary looking. I think you were smart to stay out of it.


Some pics for Dylan:

[chicago]

Originally Posted by CaliCruiser

Sorry ladies I was at work when I started typing this morning and the boss showed up.

Anyway after reseting the bead we went about 100 yards down the trail and wrapped around to the right and camped there Saturday morning. I did not see the bypass so we went straight up the gut right up the center. The guys I were with were in Toyota Truggys with 40's and crazy stuff so they didn't have any problems and I winched to them after I started lifting tires 4-6 feet in the air. I did not discover the knuckle stud breakage until the morning when I was doing my routine checks. I swapped in a spare knuckle before we continued. Later that Saturday morning we woke up and packed up quick after a big breakfast to get ahead of the crowd coming up winch hill one. The second water crossing camping was packed so we kept going on. We wheeled up winch hill 2 with no problem and continued on our trek for camping.

We ended up camping at the same spot you guys did where you take the left and go down that hill and camp by the waterfall. What a great camping spot! We lounged around that day and wheeled up the hill later that afternoon to check the action up by Cisco Grove and watch the drunks take the hard lines up to the left. One crazy ass 4 door jeep rolled and hydro-locked his motor and one guy in a badass dodge powerwagon rolled his rig twice going out Cisco Grove just on the other side of the river.

Sunday we drove up winch hill 3 and hung out there for awhile and watched the traffic come through. I took one look at the obstacle and said, "Nah, better not". What a challenge, but I think winch hill one is harder. I definitely want to build my rig more and give both another shot in the daylight. After hanging at WH3 for awhile we decided to just go back out Cisco Grove to I80 and take the easy way out since we didn't know what WH4 or WH5 looked like or what the traffic would be like.

Total carnage was the driver side knuckle, tire, rear bumper, and a few scrapes underneath. I took one tiny little shot to the body above the driver tail light and a few shots in front of the rear bumper end caps once they fell off. No damage to the body other than that.

I am going to have my knuckles drilled and tapped for the 9/16" ARP Dana 44 knuckle studs and upgrade a few little things on the front end. I still want to do Longs and locker but I still need to do little things like ring gear protection and the afore mentioned stud upgrade along with a axle rebuild.

The trip proved to be an incredible challenge for my big wagon but I fell in love with the new gears and don't think I would have been able to do it without them and the good spotting I had from my group. One other thing to go along with the front axle upgrade is the ability to run 37"+ tires. Some of those holes are deep and I think that even a 37 would have made a HUGE difference over the 35's.

I'm down to go again after I get some work done.

Thats enough rambling for now. . .

Dylan

X2 on the great write up!
Sounds like it was eventful to say the least.
Im SOOOOO frickin jealous about those gears. i CANT WAIT to get my dual t case set up. Wont be AS low as yours, but it will help A LOT Im thinking! Glad all went well All in all.
Thanks for kickin down the scoop!
Are you still planning on doing the FJ45 run?

K

[WILLD420]

Not to hijack, but a dowel pin holds side loads a lot better than studs or bolts. That's why pontiac used them in their main caps and they are used to locate flywheels. Just a thought...

[rusty_tlc]

Originally Posted by WILLD420

Not to hijack, but a dowel pin holds side loads a lot better than studs or bolts. That's why pontiac used them in their main caps and they are used to locate flywheels. Just a thought...

Knuckles typicaly fail if the studs get loose, keep them tight and most times you will be fine. But I can see where dowel pins would be a fairly easy mod to a four stud knuckle. You could probably do it with nothing more than a drill press.

[CaliCruiser]

Thanks guys! It was a great run and I definitely want to go back soon after some repairs. I forgot to mention I busted the E Brake cable also. . .

A couple of notes I thought were strange about the knuckle failure. The knuckle failure was on the driver side and the the studs were tight. I took Rusty Dan's bold advice in this thread to keep them tight and continue to check and torque throughout the weekend. I think they may have been stressed before the failure because they broke individually and inside the knuckle instead of inside the steering arm.

Andy, now you have me rethinking my original idea of drilling out the knuckles to put in the 9/16 studs. I would love to do the 6 studs knuckles but that means new hy-steer arms and new knuckles. That would be the ultimate setup, but the last time I checked the prices I think I got sticker shock. What is Luke's setup like?

Does anyone see any problems with the 9/16 ARP studs? I want to take this opportunity to upgrade (spend money) and make it stronger, but if the 9/16 studs are a waste of time, I'll do something else.


Dylan

[Cruiserdrew]

Originally Posted by CaliCruiser

Andy, now you have me rethinking my original idea of drilling out the knuckles to put in the 9/16 studs. I would love to do the 6 studs knuckles but that means new hy-steer arms and new knuckles. That would be the ultimate setup, but the last time I checked the prices I think I got sticker shock. What is Luke's setup like?

Does anyone see any problems with the 9/16 ARP studs? I want to take this opportunity to upgrade (spend money) and make it stronger, but if the 9/16 studs are a waste of time, I'll do something else.


Dylan

Dylan-I hear ya. I have the advantage of starting from scratch. Luke's steering arms come with drag link and tie rod, plus 1 ton GM ends for $550. I don't see anything wrong with 9/16 studs which are 14mm and thus 2mm larger than stock. Do they recut the taper in the arms for larger cone washers?

Luke's new solution is to make a 6 stud knuckle out of a stock 4 stud knuckle. You weld in the threaded area for the new studs after preheating the cast steel housing. It's slick, and I actually bought the stuff to do this when I get a chance. You'd still need the 6 stud steering arms, so no help there. They are extremely beefy and nice, though.

Good luck what ever you do, and even getting the wagon out there is pretty cool.

[chicago]

Where's the pics BEOTCH!

K

[CaliCruiser]

Ya the arms are redrilled for the new cone washers for the larger studs. I am going to have Georg do it on his mill down in Stockton. I started looking at the material that is going to be drilled out and there isn't as much material there as I thought. So my concern is drilling out the holes to install a larger stud but then weakening the knuckle by removing material. . .

Get that wagon done and we'll hit it up!

Dylan

[rusty_tlc]

Originally Posted by CaliCruiser

Ya the arms are redrilled for the new cone washers for the larger studs. I am going to have Georg do it on his mill down in Stockton. I started looking at the material that is going to be drilled out and there isn't as much material there as I thought. So my concern is drilling out the holes to install a larger stud but then weakening the knuckle by removing material. . .

Get that wagon done and we'll hit it up!

Dylan

Will's dowel idea is sounding pretty good.
They wouldn't retain the arm but they sure would take a lot of lateral stress with out losing much material out of the knuckle or arm. Machining would be pretty straight forward. Just drill a press fit hole through the arm and knuckle, pull the arm and drill the hole out to a slip fit, then press the dowels into the knuckle.