[Gumby]

The ST1100 and the BMW sport touring bikes are great, but Phil clearly likes the cruiser. To give him nothing but sport touring options is only kinda helpful.

There's two Valkryie Interstates for sale in the Chicago area right now. One at Fox Valley Cycles in Aurora and one on CL. They are great bikes, although they only have 5 speeds and the luggage does not come off. They are also not v-twins.

The VTX1800 is another great Honda. It has a massive v-twin. 120 horsepower 1800cc. Rock solid reliability. The Star brand has got some great looking bikes too.

I have a buddy selling a RK with stupid low miles. He wants the payoff for it. About 5K under blue book. I'm not a fan at all, but mostly because of the crazy prices and the image you get when you ride one. Even the most sane person I know goes off the deep end when they buy one of those things.

They are far more reliable than they've ever been. Nowhere near Honda, but better. The idea that they don't have major problems anymore is silly. They are a unbalanced air cooled. They just can't be as reliable as a liquid cooled balanced engine.

If reliability is less important than looks, Victory has some nice looking, well put together bikes. The Vision is hideous, absolutely mind blowing ugly. Most of the other bikes are pretty nice looking. Again, I'm not real impressed with Polaris quality, but they look good and are different. Victory in naperville also has two bikes I would buy tomorrow if I won the lottery - A BMW R1200GS and a Moto Guzzi Griso.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by sisukid1975

You may not find a former police bike as nice as DieselDogs, though. The CHP doesn't retire their Beemers till they have over 100,000 miles on them, or have been dropped hard. Hard, police miles. His bike actually belonged to a municipal police department, who were probably a lot easier on it, and retired it once it hit just over 30,000 miles. I think that's pretty rare, since most of the former cop bikes you'll see have 100,000 miles plus, or have been dropped.

Harley leases the bikes to police departments for $1 per year. Then they get them back fairly quickly and sell them at a premium price.

[sisukid1975]

Originally Posted by Gumby

Harley leases the bikes to police departments for $1 per year. Then they get them back fairly quickly and sell them at a premium price.

Yeah, and here in WI there are political ramifications involved. I would bet you money that if you took a Milwaukee Motor Cop or a WI State Patrol Motor Officer and gave them a week or two on duty with a BMW, they'd probably want the BMW for all the same reasons that the Guys in Cali and other states are using them. But no Wisconsin department could buy a BMW police bike without there being a major political shitstorm.

HD has got its hooks in a lot of departments, especially the ones here in the Midwest.

[sisukid1975]

Originally Posted by Gumby

...also has two bikes I would buy tomorrow if I won the lottery - A BMW R1200GS...[/IMG]

That's my next bike. I'll never part with my F650GS. I still think it's about the best all-round motorcycle you can get, roundels or not. But one day, I will have an R1200GS with factory lowered suspension. (I'm vertically challenged, and as much as I like the R1200GS Adventure, I'm far too short for one )

I'll just have to wait a few years till some factory lowered ones start showing up on the used market so I can afford it.

[PhilC64]

Since my last post I've been perusing the Victory website as well as Honda's, Yamaha's and Kaw's. Most of them have similar offerings and most have a 6 speed tranny with their engines

The VTX is on my short list along with the RK but the 5 speed tranny is the down side to it. The Kingpin has always been on my list and no downside to it that I can think of. Kaw's Vulcan 1700 in Lt or voyager trim fits the style I'm looking for. ABS and cruise aren't available from what I've read though. Yamaha seems to have a lot of factory option that I'm looking for in two models the Star Silverado and the Stratoliner.

A few places offer rentals or test drives on their bikes. That seems to be the only option left to explore to help make up my mind. Everybody's input here has been fantastic as well! Thanks!

BTW I did check out Triumph's website and saw their monstrous 3 cylinder 2300cc tourer. It's got some style to it but I fear it might go the way of the Indian.

[sisukid1975]

Originally Posted by PhilC64

A few places offer rentals or test drives on their bikes. That seems to be the only option left to explore to help make up my mind. Everybody's input here has been fantastic as well! Thanks!

If you can show them you're serious about buying, some places will Demo you a bike for a few days. I rode my F650GS to Napleton CycleWerks in Barrington, and became enamored with a factory lowered R1200GS. I sat on it, and was remarking how perfect it was... They guy said if I wanted, he had another one in back that was the demo bike, and I could take it home for a few days if I wanted. I had to say no. I knew I'd just want it more, and it would cause problems with the wife, especially after we just agreed that all major purchases had been made for a long time to come.

Originally Posted by PhilC64

BTW I did check out Triumph's website and saw their monstrous 3 cylinder 2300cc tourer. It's got some style to it but I fear it might go the way of the Indian.

Don't. Triumph has been around for 15 years in their current incarnation. The Dealer in Janesville has been here for 10. There's no reason to believe that they are going anywhere anytime soon. Their bikes are class leading, and the the company is doing just fine.

[Gumby]

Victory is supposed to be having a demo deal.

Fox Valley Cycles does test rides. So does Honda House in Elmhurst. Great owners. Really nice folks.


The Triumph is not going anywhere. It's very successful. The owner, John Bloor, paid off his investors and started turning a profit way ahead of schedule. The 2300 Rocket Three tourer is supposed to be a far better bike than the Rocket Three standard.

That Stratoliner is a fine looking scooter.


My dream bike is on CL in Chicago now. Ducati GT1000 monoposto.

[madcardisease]

Haters here....re-sale is the best option I have with my harley.

[PhilC64]

Re-sale price on a Harley is just nuts. It is a small factor on my list but still not enough to warrant an immediate purchase.

I'm scheduling a ride with Victory in Naperville when I'm back on vacation in a couple of weeks. I'll have the bride with me when we go since she's in on this deal as well. I'm getting a Harley free rental certificate dropped off to this weekend.

One of the mechanics at work offered to buy my current ride for his wife. I'm seriously considering going with it. This might happen sooner than I planned.

[Jomama]

x2 what Gumby and Sisukid have suggested.

And another vote Triumph. Not sure they have exactly the niche cruiser you're interested in, but the bikes overall are top notch and they are not going away....

I love the purr of my old triple, and the new Tiger is a fantastic bike (just getting better). The powerband on them is amazingly smooth & consistent.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by madcardisease

Haters here....re-sale is the best option I have with my harley.

Damn silly reason to buy a vehicle, IMO.

[sisukid1975]

Originally Posted by Gumby

Damn silly reason to buy a vehicle, IMO.

You mean you'd rather buy a better bike for half the money, and put the rest in a mutual fund or something? What kind of "investment" sense is that?

[Gumby]

Unfortunately, I would probably just buy two better bikes with the money and not worry about selling them.
I'm not the best at investing.

[Red Herring]

Ya... and BMW don't hold their value at all.

[Blue77FJ40]

I don't give a rat's ass about image. I've been on bikes since I was 17. That's a lot of years ago. I always had jap bikes, standard style, not the zoomsplat style. My ride is a 1994 Dyna that I have no intention of selling. It handles like a sportster, as nimble as I need it to be.

The mechanical problems Harley had were limited mostly to the AMF days of no quality assurance of the mid 80's before the company bought it back. Since then, roadside Harley parties are a thing of the past. I have never had any mechanical problems with the bike, nor have anyone I've ever known with theirs. Some of the factory's bearing choices (cams) could be better, but a simple swap there makes the bike bulletproof.

Sure some of the engineering is somewhat antiquated, but that's what appeals to me - simplicity and ease of maintenance - after all, I'm a land cruiser lover. While I have absolutely no desire for the speed of a zoomsplat, my bike has plenty of go for me.

The Road King is a beautiful bike. I was very interested in one at one point. Although it's one of the touring line, it's a lightweight tourer, as you don't have the protection of the batwing fairing and the saddlebags are smaller and have a lot less carrying capacity than the dedicated dressers. I'm not a fan of the current twin cam motor, and would swap out the cam chain for gears asap, but once you get the fuel injection set like you want it (for the aftermarket pipes/cam you will probably want - I recommend Rhinehardt), it's set, forget, and enjoy.

[Gumby]

must just be an attitude thing.

I would rate cam bearings and timing chain swaps the other side of major maintenance.

I also think a bike should perform well out of the box, not after you've dropped a grand and made it illegal.

But that's just me.

[sisukid1975]

Originally Posted by Blue77FJ40

...The mechanical problems Harley had were limited mostly to the AMF days of no quality assurance of the mid 80's before the company bought it back...

LOL. I'll never understand the hatred of AMF. Harley sucked before AMF. The European bikes performed better, were more reliable, and more durable. The Japanese bikes performed better, were more reliable, more durable, and had the added bonus of being way cheaper. Harley didn't have what it took to fix those things. When they could no longer compete on the racetrack, they did the Patriotic thing: they said "fuck it," and quit racing. When the Japanese were building better bikes for a fraction of the money, H-D did what any red-blooded American would do when faced with that: they rolled up their sleeves, and got to work lobbying congress to slap tariffs on the foreign bikes.

Why do you think AMF was able to buy H-D for practically nothing? Because they were already close to going tits up before AMF owned them.

And don't forget, it was AMF that gave you the Evolution Engine you have today. That says lot about Harley's engineering prowess that it took a company whose core competency was manufacturing fucking bowling balls to give you an engine that was even somewhat competitive with the ones in other bikes of the time.

And that time was 30 years ago. Yet today, even after they broke free from the oppressive yoke of AMF, they are still selling the same shit they were back then. Maybe it's more reliable, but it's just as crude and poorly designed now as it was 30 years ago.

Originally Posted by Blue77FJ40

...Sure some of the engineering is somewhat antiquated, but that's what appeals to me - simplicity and ease of maintenance...

And that's fine. Dude, I can appreciate that. My other bike besides the BMW is a Honda CT90. Talk about simple, crude, but reliable, I think that thing has like 4 wires in it. But here's the thing: I didn't pay $20,000 dollars for it, nor would I ever have considered paying that much for it. Why on earth anyone with more than three functioning brain cells would pay top-shelf 2010 prices for a 1960s motorcycle is beyond me. If any other manufacturer who was NOT Harley made those bikes, they'd probably cost $4000. And that's about what they're worth. Except with Harley, you're paying $4000 for a bike, and $16,000 for the privilege of owning it.

It's also worth noting that, even on my "complicated" BMW with its fuel injection, ABS, computerized ignition, complicated suspension designs, and intricately engineered components, I still do all my own work on it.

[sisukid1975]

Oh and one other thing: Phil, if you get a harley, please don't be one of these jackasses who runs around residential streets at 2am after the bars close blipping the throttle on the goddamn thing with your straight pipes on. SOme of us are trying to sleep, and the ill will created with the neighbors makes it harder for all of us who own bikes, even though we aren't all inconsiderate dicks, and our bikes don't sound like that.

You know, BMWs, Hondas, Yamahas, Suzukis, Triumphs... they all are capable of idling on their own without user inputs, since they're not tuned to sound like a piece of farm equipment.

[Red Herring]

Phil, I am feeling a little guilty about all the bashing here. I suggest you buy what you like, and enjoy the hell out of it. You will get a lot more machine for your money looking elsewhere, but you might not get more with your heart. If you like the Harley, don't let us windbags talk you out of it. Try them all, and take your time. After all, it's not always about performance, sometimes it's more about feel.

[97 FZJ80]

The RoadKing Classic is a fine piece of machine, especially the post 2007 model with the 96 cubic inch with 6 speed overdrive transmission. Make no mistake, there is no such thing as a "lite" touring HD. The RoadKing is the on a full touring frame and was sold more as a sporty bike until the introduction of the StreetGlide. The riding position is more lean over than the other touring bikes due to the lack of "bat" wing fairing. Although the windshield and the saddlebags can be quickly removed, don't kid yourself as 99.9% of the owner never removed either in the bikes lifetime. ALthough the saddlebags can be modified to lock, they do leak a little during heavy rain, unlike the standard models with the hard saddlebags.

It's a great bike if you like the open look and feel of the clear windshield. For a sport touring bike, the StreetGlide is much better model, especially with the unclutter look and stereo

Drop me a PM if you have any more questions.

[Blue77FJ40]

A variable stereo would be nice, but when I test drove a Streetglide, I thought the batwing even with the low windshield would give me more wind protection than my Dyna with a detachable windshield. It didn't, and that surprised me. If I ever get a dresser, it'll be an ultra, but I'd probably make the rear deck detachable.

And definitely buy what you like, don't feel pressured by all the harley bashing.

[Awl_TEQ]

A year ago I bought a written off 03 Ultra-Classic and rebuilt it - all cosmetic damage. Had a great time doing so. Touring Harleys are definitely 50 year old technology as far as frame geometry and engineering goes. The bike could easily be made 250-300Lbs lighter through the use of different materials and engineering. For example, the brackets that hold the floor boards must be 20Lbs if they are an ounce.

The thing is, I have a Suzuki sport bike, an old Yamaha and a 2yr old Honda - haven't ridden any of them this year. Not even around the block. Got 4k miles on the Harley so far. I would love to add a couple of BMW's, a Victory and Ducati to the garage. There are even a couple of Triumphs I want.

I learned to ride when I was 5. Most memories of my late father revolve around dirt biking in the mountains of Washington or sitting behind him on some trip to anywhere. I don't care if you're riding a 50cc scooter or a $40k Ducati - if you're on two wheels it about having fun. Buy the bike you like. It's not about who's bike is newer, better engineered, leans further, goes faster or is louder. It's about the wind, good times with friends, new roads and landscapes and the occasional commute to work. Just do us all a favor and ride within your limits.

[Gumby]

While the ride-whatever-you-want sentiment is all good in a brothership of the road kind of way, it's not so helpful when a poster is asking what kind of bike is best for him.

Harleys carry a lot of baggage. If , after all the pros and cons are weighed, it is the bike for you, good on ya. But if you're looking for the best bike you need to jettison all those HD image issues and look at the bikes head to head.

[Awl_TEQ]

Originally Posted by Gumby

But if you're looking for the best bike you need to jettison all those HD image issues and look at the bikes head to head.

Well if you do that you won't and shouldn't buy a Harley for all the reasons listed above. But people seldom buy what they should. They buy what they want, right or wrong.

If you're going to compare head to head the fact that a motorcycle can only carry two and is inherently more dangerous and is exposed to the elements should make you buy a car.

For most people a motorcycle is a toy, a luxury - not a necessity. Its a second or third mode of transport. In that context people tend to get what they think reflects their personality or projects the image they want other people to see.

And its not just motorcycles. Why are so many North Americans driving gas guzzling muscle cars and oversized trucks? Because they want to. All a see here is 1 ton dually quad cab chevys commuting in the city with one occupant and nothing in the bed. Get a Prius for christssake.

Sorry for rambling - I have issues


As for Phils original question - If your buying a late model used (5yrs) or new Harley you will have no more issues than any other make with regards to fit and finish or reliability. I know I may be in the minority with that opinion but all the guys I know haven't had any issues that weren't caused by their own doing. The Road King will have all the features you asked for including ABS and proper cruise control (both optional). The Road King is 80 Lbs heavier than the C90 and carries almost twice the fuel.

If you feel like looking at other brands the BMW 1200RT is a great bike though I don't know if it has the rear floor boards and it looks more like a sport tourer to me. And its comparable to the Harley for cost - give or take once you get all your gear and drive away.

Happy hunting - and let us know what you decide on

[legion]

I had an HD up til a couple years ago. Sat in the garage and never got ridden.

When I twist the right wrist I want stuff to happen pretty quickly. The HD mostly just got noisier.

I think that's a bike that appeals to the kind of guy that wants to buy a lifestyle and some character or mystique that he otherwise might not have. If you're a guy that likes to ride more than polish though... or if you don't feel you have a character deficit, skip the HD.

[Awl_TEQ]

Originally Posted by legion

I had an HD up til a couple years ago. Sat in the garage and never got ridden.

When I twist the right wrist I want stuff to happen pretty quickly. The HD mostly just got noisier.

I think that's a bike that appeals to the kind of guy that wants to buy a lifestyle and some character or mystique that he otherwise might not have. If you're a guy that likes to ride more than polish though... or if you don't feel you have a character deficit, skip the HD.

Your post says alot about your character also - accurate or not. there I go making assumptions.




Had mine 18 months - washed it twice. Never polished once.

I do agree with your throttle and noise analogy. I am told the last couple of years have seen much improvement in power and ride quality. Not sure I believe it. Kinda like the "big three" trying to convince us they make as good a car as the Japanese. Public opinon is earned.

I sold my Ultra last week - too much money to be sitting half the year - made $2k over all.

Kevin

[legion]

Originally Posted by Awl_TEQ

I do agree with your throttle and noise analogy.

It's the sound of freedom, man. Freedom.


Dirty bike, clean bike, doesn't matter. It's that every aspect of The Motor Company's product has more pose factor than anything else. It's ok by me for sure and sometimes that pose factor can be choreographed nicely. It's not for me though.

Marketing: A predatory practice designed to influence the buying decision of those least capable of making an informed choice on their own.

[97 FZJ80]

Harley - it's a lifestyle.

[legion]

Originally Posted by 97 FZJ80

Harley - it's a lifestyle.

For the independently minded individualist that just so happens to like to flock with other like minded, rugged, independently oriented, freedom fighting individualists.

Sort of like buying a shit sandwich because it comes with a free toaster mailed directly to your door. When the emphasis is on the sizzle and not the steak... you're being sold the wrong thing.

[Awl_TEQ]

They are so good at selling the sizzle they've got the competition doing it - she's not riding a Harley.