apathy of RHD JDM owners

[crushers]

Since I have a habit of speaking my mind I figure I will start a new thread. Is this tech related I am hoping so but in actuality this might be better in the international JDM alliance.

I have been asked why most of the importers do not band together to fight these recent applications of rules. It is simple. Most are curbers trying to stay under the radar. If you were blatantly breaking the law would you go against the powers that be? No.

How about the JDM owners getting together and registering and ready to form a powerful association? Well, I feel they don't want to be part of an organization since once again it brings attention to themselves and with the heat that is coming down in the last 3 months I can not blame them. Most want to hide and hope that the government will miss them in their blatant persecution on the JDM group. (If this was a race of people we would be able to attack the government for racial discrimination).

What about this idea that RHD units are unsafe for BC roads? I call serious BS on this statement. Where are the stats that prove such a ridiculous statement? Don’t even start with any stats that pertain to skylines or Fairladys since most are bought by young kids. You stick 350 hp++ in the hands of any kid and you will be having accidents in any province. Where are the stats for the cruisers, Townace, micro cars? There was someone that posted in one of the threads that he had inside information about ICBC wanting these units removed from the roads, so come forth and post the info, either yourself or forward the info to someone that is not scared to post it.

These regulations affect every JDM owner.

Stoney, you stated that since you do not drive a LJ this regulation really does not affect you. In reality it could definitely affect you. What happens if suddenly the BC government doesn't like BJ73 HZJ73 and PZJ70s? All they need to do is reclassify these units as passenger vehicles and then bumper heights come into play, modified bumpers, headlight measurement. Then all the JDM (and CDM) cruiser owners are affected, including you. Do you really want to go find a stock bumper to reinstall? Take the lift back out and run 29" tires again?


One bloke posted if they call for a third brake light just installs it in. IF it is law then so be it but if the government is not following their own regulations then no, don't just stick it in. the third brake light was mandatory on cars after 1987 and trucks (full frame) after 1997, why should we spend the time and effort if the law doesn't require it. If there is a misleading statement then get the requirements correct so clear across Canada we can prep the units to pass the OOP in any province.

Daytime running lights are required on ALL units after Dec. 1st 1989

Common sense dictates headlights must not shine into on coming traffic, not all headlight assemblies can be replaced with DOT approved LHD counterparts. But this is not acceptable in the new memo.

Common sense dictates that similar tail lights one DOT approved and the other non-DOT approved should be accepted if the coverage is the same between the 2 units. This is not acceptable in the new memo (caution, if replacing the factory DOT approved units with a cheaper after market unit might be your downfall if the replacement is non-DOT approved so ask before you purchase to see if the unit is stamped or not)

Reflectors OR lights are acceptable for the corners of the units.

Glass must be stamped to be acceptable.

If you know of another fact feel free to post it.

[lshobie]

The only problem with the RHD owners assn rather than a dealers assn is that the owners assn is more of a club, they wouldn't have the same interest (financial) that a dealer would in lobbying the gov't. To make an owners club would be akin to making a canadian patients society to lobby on behalf of the doctors - when it's the dr.'s who are the ones who are versed in thier specialty and know what they have to fight for.

There are enough dealers of JDM's now, there are lots of dealers bringin in and selling JDM's if you check the net. EVen curbers are becoming dealers.

An assn of dealers would work. There is no apathy on the part of the owners, they probably just don't have time, or will focus on fixing thier specific problems. ALthough they might like ot belong to a club - maybe a cruiser club - or add another club to thier list - the owners club I guess.

The dealers have the interest in the legislation - the dealers should form the assn.

Regards

[crushers]

the more units pulled off the road because of compliance failure the more "owners" will want to speak up.

you have to remember that the owners are the ones that loose out in the end. they are the ones that have the money tied up. there are very few importers that care enough to make sure the unit passes OOP legally.
i was chatting with a gent last night and he informed me that it is illegal to sell a unit in BC that does not meet the requirements, as he sad, you can not get water from a stone...

once again, it is buyer beware. check out what you are buying, be informed, learn what it takes to pass the OOP in your province.

cheers

[Kaoscruizer]

Well guys .. we need to band together in some fashion or another. The BC boys are gonna get hit hard and we have the same potential for it to happen in AB and the rest of the provinces. There are a TON of JDM's in Canada now and more are arriving everyday. I have a 74 and although it is apparently not a prime target of the attack (for now), what happens if the majority of Cruisers get taken off the road? .. what happens to the GREAT dealers we DO have? What happens to the GREAT parts guys we DO have? There will be no support for the hundreds of JDM Cruisers already here .. there will be no money in it anymore.
Let's face it .. if it becomes a nightmare or simply an impossibility to get trucks in, the lot of us are gonna be screwed!! AND FOR WHAT? Is anyone actually to believe that the safety standards set out for vehicles in Japan are sub standard to those set out in Canada? .. I think not. Although I am going to be called a conspiracy theory NUT, I fully believe that someone higher up in BC govt is upset because some people are actually making a decent living bringing in good, used vehicles, preventing dealers in BC that are trying to sell their N American crap (4x4s, SUVs) from making the money they are used to making off people that don't know any better. Don't kid yourself .. new and used N American dealers don't like us buying these great units. Who knows what kind of pressure they are putting on higher ups to end the influx of JDM's? .. it's all about the money. The normal good natured banter here has been replaced with some real worrisome talk .. and not from newbies, from people in the know!!! We better get on the band wagon and help EACH OTHER out. This attack has the potential to affect us all in one way or another.

[lshobie]

well said.

[Behemoth60]

Geez, Wayne. That was extremely well said. In fact, I would say, that's the best post I've ever seen you write.

What is needed is a leader.

In any group of people, 97% are quite happy to follow along, bitching and complaining about the direction the whole way.

We need the 3% that are passionate about the issue and able to ignore the bitching and complaining to stand up, put together a plan, and the other 97% will probably follow if they think it's a good plan, but complain about anyway.

I have enought work trying to convince the Alberta Government to let us wheel on more that 2.8% of the trails in Waiparous and simultaneously convince the wheelers that we should keep trying. But I drive a RHD BJ74, and want to continue to do so, and will follow any good plan that someone puts forward.

Peter Straub

[Greg_B]

Originally Posted by crushers

All they need to do is reclassify these units as passenger vehicles and then bumper heights come into play, modified bumpers, headlight measurement. Then all the JDM (and CDM) cruiser owners are affected, including you. Do you really want to go find a stock bumper to reinstall? Take the lift back out and run 29" tires again?

Wayne...in the wonderful world of ICBC there are two plates (yes there are other categories...but for the intent of this conversaion): Commerical vehicle, and passenger vehicle. Commercial vehicle is all trucks...pickup trucks, dump trucks, semi-trucks...etc. They are inspected to "truck" standard. Passenger plates are on everything else...including full frame burbs, cruisers, *eeps, vans, yada yada. This already is a bone of contention in BC. If you want truck plates there is a way, but it involves removing rear seats/mounts etc. It does not matter to ICBC that the MPV tagged vehicles in federal eyes means 4x4 or built on truck, or special chassis...they still plate it as a passenger vehicle.

gb

[Greg_B]

Originally Posted by Behemoth60

We need the 3% that are passionate about the issue and able to ignore the bitching and complaining to stand up, put together a plan, and the other 97% will probably follow if they think it's a good plan, but complain about anyway.Peter Straub

Well said. I have seen this in action many times over my last 20 years at work, and I was usually in the 3%. In fact in some areas at work I am still there. That, in conjuntion with my shiftwork, G&S, and getting ready for Alaska place me on the outside with this issue too.

gb

[crushers]

Originally Posted by Greg_B

Wayne...in the wonderful world of ICBC there are two plates (yes there are other categories...but for the intent of this conversaion): Commerical vehicle, and passenger vehicle. Commercial vehicle is all trucks...pickup trucks, dump trucks, semi-trucks...etc. They are inspected to "truck" standard. Passenger plates are on everything else...including full frame burbs, cruisers, *eeps, vans, yada yada. This already is a bone of contention in BC. If you want truck plates there is a way, but it involves removing rear seats/mounts etc. It does not matter to ICBC that the MPV tagged vehicles in federal eyes means 4x4 or built on truck, or special chassis...they still plate it as a passenger vehicle.

gb

humm,
i just registered 2 PZJ77s under "truck" since i had a choice... sure is wonderful to live in Alberta...
now i wonder what would happen if these units live in BC... any ideas?
cheers

[nickw]

Originally Posted by crushers

humm,
i just registered 2 PZJ77s under "truck" since i had a choice... sure is wonderful to live in Alberta...
now i wonder what would happen if these units live in BC... any ideas?
cheers

If things did hit the wall in BC, I am sure all units would be sold into alberta.

[nickw]

I am with you on this Wayne.
Our trucks are safe. RHD or LHD, doesn't matter.
There are valid pro's and con's to each.
At the end of the day safe driving is safe, and unsafe drivng is not. LHD or RHD does not matter.

I also agree about giving a 18 year old a 350hp+ car.
I am 23, and I don't know if I would trust myself in a skyline GTR.
That car was built but for one purpose.
To be one of the fastest cars on the street.
Sooner or later, your foot will go down on the gas.

Anyways, I fully support a RHD group, and would love to be a part of it.

Cheers,
Nick

[Kaoscruizer]

well we seem to have a common interest here .. what do we do next? Wayne .. is it beneficial for those of us in AB to register our Cruisers as trucks? Can a person do that after the fact?

Who do we need to lobby to get the ball rolling in terms of pointing out that this entire scam is something OTHER than a concern for driver safety? How many vehicles do i see DAILY that shouldn't even be on the road!!?? .. LOTS!!!
An example .. British vehicles go through an MOT every year after they are 3 years old .. EVERY type and make of vehicle must comply (even vehicles that have rust in key structural areas are failed) .. THAT is a regulation that considers safety, unlike the supposed issues being scrutinized here .. does my tail light lens have the correct stamp on it .. give me a break. I would think that there are MANY other concerns regarding vehicle safety that need to be dealt with long before those created by any JDM RHD Cruiser.

[mjohn7]

Just to jump in. To be succesful with a dealers/ importers assocaition not only would you have to get all the legit dealers / importers on side, but also be able to show the Dept of Transport that the items in question comply with SAE/ DOT standards. This may take hiring an enginer. Or submiting sambles to the Dept of Transport for testing.

I have heard one local inspection shop (Calgary) say they are spending more time on the phone trying to find out whats OK than they are spending doing the inspection. If it becomes to much of a hassel to do the inspections on JDMs, do you think shops will even want to look at a JDM.

[Kaoscruizer]

I am thinking that cross referencing DOT/SAE specs with another country's automotive specs might be easier than that .. Several countries must have vehicles that don't match existing "in country" specs once imported. There must be a table(s) in existence already that will enable us to cross reference the specs. I could be completely wrong.

[lshobie]

Simply allowing lenses with the european cert would solve most of the problems. Many jdm's have an "E" stamp on the lenses as they are shipped to the eurpoean market. If they were accepted here then things would be alot easier.

[Psilosin]

I have to say Wayne you are dropping the Apathy bomb on BC a little much. Looks like all the provinces, not just BC, are either now facing or soon will be facing the same problems and I haven't seen any owners in Alberta, Manitoba or Ontario step up and challenge/change the laws yet either

If any of the other owners out there have had a hard of a time getting information out of the BC CVSE as I have its no wonder nobody has made any significant process. Every time I talk to a different person from CVSE or read what they post on this board you get a differnt story. Also they have a great way of pulling apparent trump cards out their ass when confronted with a valid argument that they can't validly dismiss.

The BC MVA is to ensure vehicles are equal to the federal standards. However, the CVSE inspection manual is a dummy yes/no guide that gives no provisions for common sense in meeting said federal standards. On top of that, according to the recent post ('MOT wants to inspect my 78' [or whatever it was called]), if true, the CVSE officers have a second super manual that superceeds the inspection manual so they can still mess you up.

They are also very inventive...when talking to inspection facilities in the area back in January the CVSE head honcho in these parts had told them that NO japanese imports can ever pass. Why you ask...well here's one example...he says because unless you have the factory specifications for the vehicle how can the wear on things like the brake rotors be accessed to say what overall conditon they are in. Fly ball in left field!!!.

And how about the "equivalent to OEM" debate from a while back ['DOT pulled me over' thread]...like talking to a robot...that still gets under my skin whenever I think about it.

I can't even get straight answers on whether the TS108.1 bulletin applies in BC (since it isn't in the inspection manual) and whether that just covers e-code headlights or if it covers e-code signal and tail lights as well...

So as it stands I haven't been able to get any clear answers on what to do to ENSURE my vehicle is in compliance and I am tired of being stressed about it. So I await the day I get harrassed and will go to court.

[mreekster]

In the electrical industry we have CSA approved equipment. One used to get a special eqipment inpection from the province of BC, they were a pain in the ass. So now If I build a piece of equipment, I can get approval from CSA or equivalent, such as Wharnok-hersey.It is a special inspetion certification approval that can cost $100-$200. Is there such a thing for vehicles? Kit cars, altered vehicles engineering stamp of aproval agencies.

[Fromage]

Originally Posted by Psilosin

I can't even get straight answers on whether the TS108.1 bulletin applies in BC (since it isn't in the inspection manual) and whether that just covers e-code headlights or if it covers e-code signal and tail lights as well...

Do you mean CMVSS 108.1 - alternative requirements for headlights?

108.1 is applicable Canada-wide. It's a Federal requirement under the Transport Canada requirements.

Notable 108.1 requirements:

Beam MUST be for left hand traffic - IE does not apply to most JDM.
Does not apply to anything except headlights.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations...mvsr108_1.html

[Fromage]

Originally Posted by lshobie

Simply allowing lenses with the european cert would solve most of the problems. Many jdm's have an "E" stamp on the lenses as they are shipped to the eurpoean market. If they were accepted here then things would be alot easier.

They are. It's called CMVSS 108.1 - Alternative requirements for headlamps. It is possible to use E coded headlamps in Canada. It is highly illegal, however, to use RHD lights in a LHD environment (as stated above, there is an implicit requirement in CMVSS 108.1 for lights designed for LH traffic)

Since cruisers have sealed beams (40/55/60/61/62/70/73/74 etc), or the equivalent LHD lighting is available from dealers here (80) I cannot, for the life of me, understand the problem. Change the lights. Problem solved.

[crushers]

Originally Posted by mjohn7

Just to jump in. .

feel free to jump back out...
anyone that is reluctant to reveal their true name when requested is not welcome.

[Fromage]

Originally Posted by mreekster

In the electrical industry we have CSA approved equipment. One used to get a special eqipment inpection from the province of BC, they were a pain in the ass. So now If I build a piece of equipment, I can get approval from CSA or equivalent, such as Wharnok-hersey.It is a special inspetion certification approval that can cost $100-$200. Is there such a thing for vehicles? Kit cars, altered vehicles engineering stamp of aproval agencies.

Not in Canada. In the States it is called grey market, or aftermarket certification. It doesn't work. In Canada, only the OEM can certify compliance at time of main assembly by affxing a compliance label.

[crushers]

Originally Posted by Fromage

They are. Change the lights. Problem solved.

actualy 'E' rated are not acceptable according to the memo.

[Fromage]

Edit.

[mreekster]

what I was wondering was can another body certify auto parts? There are alot of aftermarket parts in Canada, they must be certifed by someone without going to each province.

[crushers]

there are MANY uncertified aftermarket parts. once again allow me to warn everyone to ASK before purchasing tail lights if they are DOT/SAE approved AND stamped...
i talked with one supplier this morning and the word is that the consumer is responsible for what he buys and installs...
seriously, what are the chances of being pulled over in a BJ74? not too likely. but it would suck if you replaced that broken tail light with a non-dot approved unit and got the unit impounded because an inspector was having a bad day...
cheers

[mjohn7]

Originally Posted by crushers

feel free to jump back out...
anyone that is reluctant to reveal their true name when requested is not welcome.

I was not aware this was your personal forum Wayne. I guess unless your part of the Good Old boys Club your are not welcome. As for my name I have sent you two personal e-mails over the last month, still no responce from you. (you may recall them, ***@gov.ab.ca.)