JDM prices trend?

rstl99 · 03-05-08, 11:38 AM

Hi all,
Is it me or is the price dropping on JDM diesel LC imports? I've been looking at prices and availability of rigs on autotrader.ca and other places and there seem to be LOTS of JDM diesel LC's for sale (by dealers and individuals) and the prices seem to me to be lower than what I recall a year ago, when I was considering going that route.

Anyway, wondering if someone here has insight on the state of the market for those trucks in Canada. Has supply-and-demand laws of economics caught up with the number of these trucks being brought into the country? Have insurance/licencing/service/parts/RHD issues scared people away from them of late?

Cheers!

canucksafari · 03-05-08, 01:13 PM

I suspect it has more to do with inferior product flooding the market. You can't compare aples and oranges and you certainly can not compare apples and lemons. There are a lot of lemons out there. Just loook around and see how many Prados are up for sale. Some listings don't even mention the name Prado - just Land Cruiser. Do your reasearch, get it inspected independently by someone who knows (not CAA), and make sure you read and understand the small print.

Martin White · 03-05-08, 02:19 PM

I still keep an eye on the market for JDM's and have looked at a few, even though I sold my HDJ81. I've seen units with interiors where you swear a pack of wild dogs must have been living inside, leaky seals all over the underside, pieces hanging off, huge chunks of rust, seals blown out of windows, peeled and faded paint over rusty areas, and gaping holes in the dash where pieces have been pulled out, shocks obviously broken or leaking, springs sagging, transmission not shifting properly, turbo making strange noises, and odd, unexplained hoses which appear to have been installed by an elementary school mechanic. Not to mention most of these units either do not have lockers, or the lockers don't work. There are not very many premium units out there that I have seen, and that's before you start getting into the non obvious mechanical areas of the truck.

As a result, I strongly expect that as Canucksafari put it, you are seeing lower level units on the market with a concurrently reduced price. These trucks can absorb a lot of money in short order, and doubly or triply so with a unit such as I have described. Unfortunately, these trucks are also giving JDM's a really bad name, and that probably has a slight effect on the really good units as well.

prado t · 03-05-08, 02:30 PM

Can I take a shot at this thread. I will speak about the L.C.s I have had , and dreamt about landcruisers since I was 14 and was at the Toyota dealership and saw one of the last 1984 BJ42 and the New model BJ70 side by side wow. I told my dad that when I was able to drive I wanted one or the other. In 1988 at 18 years old I had 5,800 bucks in my pocket. A 1980 FJ40 with 82,000 km smurf blue slight rust, I drove it home that day with a permit, B.C. was just coming out of recession then so it was tough for a 18 year old to get a job so I had to borrow the money for insurance. I still remember that like yesterday. It was a while before I met a girl that liked landcruisers because all of the COOL guys Had IROCs camaro. Today I own a well built BJ74, To me my vehicle is PRICELESS. I am 38 and my favorite vehicle in the whole world is a 20 year old Landcruiser, it will never be for sale.
In Vancouver ther are Landcruiser people, and then there are FAD people. Like the person who has to have one because RHD or having a JDM is cool. They buy it at say 18,000 and then sell it a month later at 8900 because the wife cant drive it. Those people are briging the value of our JDMs down. They are fucking with the value of our JDMs as it is anyways the value has gone down anyways because, the FAD owner didnt know a f*cking thing about the vehicle and cooked the turbo, or forgot that it was diesel and put gas in it. (i have seen it done) The price trend is going down to because there is a lot of Junk out there because a lot of the Japanese only know how to burn the seats when they smoke and dont know a thing about maintenance. I hope I didnt offend anyone. I type only what I see from my own experinces. LONG LIVE our BOX TRUCKS including NISSAN PATROL/ SAFARIs
aaron kuit

canucksafari · 03-05-08, 02:56 PM

Well said Aaron.

I didn't buy my rig as an investment anyways. I bought it to drive and I hope to see if I can make that 1,000,000 kms mark.

FJota · 03-05-08, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canucksafari

Well said Aaron.

I didn't buy my rig as an investment anyways. I bought it to drive and I hope to see if I can make that 1,000,000 kms mark.

That is my thought aswell. I bought my truck because of the options. It's been a great truck and my wife says that selling it, is not an option.

rstl99 · 03-06-08, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prado t

In Vancouver ther are Landcruiser people, and then there are FAD people. Like the person who has to have one because RHD or having a JDM is cool. aaron kuit

I hadn't realized that some people were buying up JDM Cruisers as poseur vehicles! ("look at me, I'm cool, I'm driving on the right side")

Sounds also from others who have replied that some of the JDM specimens are just in awful condition (which speaks to the greed of shoddy importers, and ignorance of some buyers who get saddled with them), which I can understand would tend to bring the prices down. Like someone once said "you can fool all the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but..." (well, you know how it goes).

Not sure if a nice JDM is in my future, I always thought it would make more sense once I'm retired from monday_to_friday work (3 more years!) hence don't have to commute and enter parking garages etc. So maybe I'll keep my eyes open in a couple of years for a _nice_ specimen, unless the old BJ60 I acquired has become the cat's meow by then

Thanks again for explaining to me the current state of the JDM TLC market.

canucksafari · 03-06-08, 08:07 AM

If you decide to buy one, it would be smart if you connected with Ishobie (aka Louis): the True North Toyota Land Cruiser Club in Ottawahttp://toyotalandcruiser.blogspot.com/

rstl99 · 03-06-08, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canucksafari

If you decide to buy one, it would be smart if you connected with Ishobie (aka Louis): the True North Toyota Land Cruiser Club in Ottawahttp://toyotalandcruiser.blogspot.com/

Thanks. I had in fact communicated with him last year, when I was still toying with the idea, and came close to actually going to look at one he sort of had for sale at the time (he had a few things left to do on it, and I believe he ended up keeping it for himself, when he folded his company). I pulled back because of financial considerations and also not being sold on RHD in my current commuting context. That's why I ended up getting a Cdn BJ60 to satisfy my LC lust - I'll be giving that truck a good try over the next year or two to see if it's what I need or can live with (as opposed to the more plush, full-featured, and RHD JDM Cruisers). I like the simplicity and toughness of the old BJ60's. Mine is very solid for the year and the source (Ontario), but I'll have to determine if I can live with the 4 speed, standard steering and non-turbo 3B. If not, I would then consider investing into it, or maybe consider moving to a JDM at that point, we'll see.
Cheers!

Funksolid · 03-06-08, 11:02 PM

Here in Calgary the word is "Saturation"

All the people who wanted one have one, and some of the people who are having a little bit of remorse are trying to get rid of them to a cold market.

I'm sure some of those Prados will never sell.

d0ubledown · 03-06-08, 11:37 PM

i find that calgarys prices are a bit higher than those here. supply and demand perhaps. that said, 81's are still asking anywhere from 16-21 here. whether or not theyre getting it..who knows. ive been researching the jdm80's for the last few months. theres so many coming and going, its hard to keep track. thers also a handful that have been for sale since ive been searching. seen lots of sub 3 grade specimens at the shady dealers. have also seen some that seem to be in better condition at import specific dealers like tyee. still somewhat skeptical of places like maxoverdrive and chosunimports...but i think the overall consensus here is they're shady? and..of course theres the cream of the crops from crushers and outback that are pretty much fully serviced to almost new cond. their premium price reflects that.

i think the novelty has somewhat worn off, and those that purchased them either found out about the maintenance they should have done, or are tired of it. im sure it also has to do with the poor quality units that people buy, and flop at low prices. i think those with the prado's will have a hard time selling..even with rebuilt 3L heads etc. it does take a special non-fad person to appreciate and keep their JDM... im hoping to be one of them

of course id be willing to bet that the majority of the jdm owners (not necessarily toyota or 4X4 specific) dont do their homework. im hoping NOT to be one of them...

i spoke with a girl from VI imports on the island. they offer a 2 year warranty included on all their units. something im definitely considering..even though they cap at $1500. its still 15 hun that you dont have to pay for a repair. hopefully within that time i'll be able to get all pm's done..esp beb's, turbo rebuild and seals. but its nice to know that youve got that little bit of buffer in case anything catastrophic happens.

anyway...i dont mind the prices going down. makes it easier for me to obtain one!

lizardsinep · 03-08-08, 09:49 AM

Iam amazed at the guys trying to sell a plain jane ,non locked 80 for 19g .... with no work/maintainance done =axles/beb ect .

theres a reason why the outback & crushers trucks are that price .

canucksafari · 03-08-08, 11:21 AM

The good news is once the fad idiots and stupid buyers are finished, then the prices for the lower end units will drop substancially. It takes dealers a few months to adjust their prices. Most of them can not afford a vehicle sitting for 6 months. Personally, I think a smart buyer can get some very good deals out of these units. Let' s say you go and look at a 1992 Nissan safari that has been on a lot for 6 months. Its got 140,000 kms on the clock and the interior waer seems to match what the speedo says. The dealers wants 13,900 for it. It has a service package done. Most of these is just changing fluids and fixing things which would need to be done by law to sell a used vehicle. The $2000 - $3000 worth of work some of them claim is BS in my opinion. I would ask, have the injectors been changed? No? Knock off $600 from the price. Have the seals on the pump been changed? No, then knock off another $500-800. Have the suspension bushings been changed? No. Everyone knows that age affects rubber bushings and they need to be changed regardless of use. So, knock off another $400 or more. Has the shocks and springs been changed? How about the tie rod ends? There goes another $200. Nope, then another $1000. Have the hoses, belts, rad cap been changed? Nope, another $300. And how about the water pump. These things fail like crazy on JDMs - hence the reason why dealerss always seem to have them in the list of parts they sell. There's another $200 off the price. I am sure I am missing things but lets see where we are at: somewhere near $3,300. Now, I doubt they will take $3,500 off the price but perhaps you can expect to knock off $2500 off the price. But hold it, don't put your money down on it yet, have it independently inspected - including a compression test, oil pressure test, and cooling system pressure test, etc.. The motor or drive train components could be on their last legs and that could be another $7,000 to $10,000.

CDUFF7 · 05-08-08, 09:39 PM

I wanted to add my 2 cents as well, I live in Japan and know for a fact many cities here are making older diesel engines illegal. So there are thousands and thousands of diesel everything being exported, and other countries are eating it up. The new laws are due to the heavier pollution these older diesels put out. I am sure a lot of these 15 - 18 and 20 year old trucks need a lot of work and maintenance but that is to be expected.

I agree you should pay a little money to have a vehicle inspected, pay a $100 and save thousands later - it is just smart buying.

canucksafari · 05-09-08, 08:51 AM

Older diesels don't pollute, especially if they are maintained and are burning a percentage of Biodiesel.

CDUFF7 · 05-09-08, 10:01 AM

okay - maybe you can enlighten the government of Japan.

Google it: diesel ban japan - Google Search

Older diesel engines pollute more, it is a fact of life.

CDUFF7 · 05-09-08, 10:04 AM

So far I have yet to see biodiesel fuel in use here in Japan.

lowenbrau · 05-09-08, 10:41 AM

I love that the prices are dropping. I've owned probably three dozen Cruisers over the years (including parts rigs) and have sold less than a handful.

One reason they are dropping in price is the amount of newbies who paid the big bucks to be cool and realize after a while that Cruisers are noisy, stinky, lack features, handle badly, and get terrible fuel mileage and I'm talking about HDJ81s here. Don't even get me started about the leaf sprung trucks. The enthusiasts think they are wonderful after driving FJ40s for years but by todays standards, 15 year old Cruisers suck! I continue to drive them out of spite, because I've been doing it for so long that people (including me) expect me to.

Now, if there is a newbie left reading this with a decent HDJ81, I'll give you $10K for it.

romey · 05-09-08, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDUFF7

So far I have yet to see biodiesel fuel in use here in Japan.

i wonder why that is...unless it's like here in n.america where it's only a few companies that offer it or it's home brewed stuff...

they definitely have the technology in japan...

someone ought to sell make your own biodiesel kits! or maybe it's just a matter of time before we get some established veggy oil conversion kits... it's been a pain in the butt trying to find biodiesel here in the GTA, then i'm afraid it'll mess up my injectors...

canucksafari · 05-09-08, 12:19 PM

Europeans have had a min of 5% bio in their diesel for a very long time in order to reduce aleady low emmisions from their diesels. I beleive as little as 1% Bio will give a significant benefit to reducing emmissions. I wonder what the Japanese are doing with all the waste frying oil? It probably has more to do with getting people to buy new cars than anything else.

romey · 05-09-08, 01:08 PM

good point about the new cars, they're not into buying or giving used things away, which is why old/used things are so dirt cheap, if not given away...so who's buying or still keeping old diesels? not that many, i virtually saw none when i was there, all mostly itsy bitsy 800/1000cc cars (with gov't tax incentives i believe, but bad crash ratings), didn't even see many regular sized cars like civics and camrys....not even tokyo.

so no demand for R&D for this system let alone applying/marketing it on the road...but what about fleet owners? still tonnes of trucks running around tho, so why not in their rigs?

toyota should bring diesels to n. america, chrysler's already got them, VW's already here, THEN they should all design their own greasecar kits and sell them as a friggin option! we're paying stupid fuel costs and we're pissing away useable veggie oil, retarded i tell ya!

CDUFF7 · 05-09-08, 05:01 PM

Who is buying Japan's old Diesels?

The list of countries is long. Canada is one of them. I know Russia and Africa are big buyers. An HDJ8 in decent condition is like $3 to $4, 000 dollars here sometimes much cheaper.

romey · 05-09-08, 06:27 PM

crazy, is the 3-4G from a private sale? i heard that there aren't private sales in japan and that all go through dealers as a forced middle man, could be wrong, then from there to the auction houses like USS?....but i keep hearing top 4B 80's fetching 10Mil yen, 10g's, then shipping, etc....

i should tell my bro to pick up an old 70 diesel just to kick around town with but parking rent in tokyo is the same as rent for a house in shikoku! nucking futs! hmm and nowhere to drive cuz tolls are too dang expensive, so why bother with diesel with stop and go?! i get it...now. ah well, at least some of us canadians can keep these old rigs alive here...

romey · 05-09-08, 06:32 PM

speakin of japan and biodiesel, found this on the alternative fuels section...around the world in biodiesel

Around the world on kitchen waste

CDUFF7 · 05-09-08, 07:23 PM

Private sale exsist, not an the same scale as in the states but they are strong here. The trucks being sold in Canada, the imported JDM trucks - those comapanies are pretty much doubling their money with each sale. They buy very cheap from Auctions here in Japan. it's not just Canada - it's all over the world - this is big big money!!!

Lokks like some people are trying biodiesel, nice article - maybe it will become more widespread.

canucksafari · 05-09-08, 09:29 PM

I think the best vehicles coming over are found buy dealers like Wayne at Luxury by personal contacts and through private sales. You want to talke about money ebing made - then lets talk Pajero and delicas which here are selling from the dealers at $10,000-12,000 now (they use to be around $8,000) and are being bought for $1,500 to $2,000 in Japan. But hey, you can't fault the dealers - at least the honest ones - for making money. They take all the risk and it is a bit of work to get a vehicle over here and registered.

Personally, even though I have good money invested in my Safari, I would love to see the market her bust so I can start building a collection. Sadly it is going the other way now for the Safaris as well. More and more of them are coming over and the demand is increasing even though the retail price in Japan and here is increasing. Not too many engines out there which can beat the durability for the TD4.2. Its a real slow on the acceleration but it is very reliable.

CDUFF7 · 05-09-08, 09:35 PM

I will take a Nissan Safari over a Pajero or Delica any day of the week! Mitsubishi has had a lot of issues with their cars. Toyota, Nissan and Honda are where it's at in my opinion.

Bozza · 11-18-08, 07:41 AM

One of the reasons that prices came down everywhere (not just Canada) is precisely because of the law changes in Japan regarding older diesels. One day the law changed and you couldn't re-register older diesels in specific metro areas across the country. Over the space of a year or two the auction houses were flooded with Land Cruisers and the like and no one (locally) was buying. It was massive over-supply and they started being bought specifically for export elsewhere.

I new someone who 'dabbled' in export on the side. He was exporting late 80's early 90's Pajeros to Europe. He was doing about 15 a month. That's a Pajero every other day!!

Then his market sorta disappeared. Everyone else started doing it too, and the next thing you know the grey import market was flooded and the margins were gone.

But, if you already have a JDM (and plan to keep it awhile) then the push from the supply side is good for you. It puts more of those JDM-only parts in the wreckers/second-hand market for you!!

CDUFF7 · 11-18-08, 08:38 AM

keen insight!!! Could not agree more, people will always need parts as long as they keep driving. the area affected by the Diesel ban was the entire Kanto Plain Region. Diesel smoke was literally choking people, every bus, truck, and machine was diesel it seems, it was really hard to breath during traffic jams, now we still have the traffic jams with a little less pollution. I wanted to add to that you can still have a diesel here but it has to be "fixed" and to do it negates the cost savings of having the diesel, some big companies lost A LOT of many - having to sell fleets of big rigs, imagine that.

canucksafari · 11-18-08, 09:05 AM

There are only select parts a person would want to buy used. So, I don't see much of an advantage now unless parts vehicles come way down in price given the exchange rate with the YEN. As for complete JDM vehicles being imported, I am concerned that the prices will cause more importers to buy crap rigs and pass them off as quality rigs. Will be interesting to see if the market in Japan adjusts for the high value of the YEN compared to other currencies. Until this happens, I don't think we will be seeing very many high end rigs being imported.