JDM HDJ81 lemons... anyone have one?

romey · 12-13-07, 03:09 PM

lot's of talks on jdm's, dealers, auctions, trust issues, roll backs, BEB's goin, takin big risks, etc etc...

just wanted to hear some stories, if any, of guys that ended up with a complete POS (piece of s**t) hdj81 (or other cruiser for that matter...and i've heard about the LJ78 heads). i'm just one of those guys doin lots of research, hearing both good and bad, the cautions from the experts, the BEB issues...

very interested in one but they're hard to find in ontario (well, good ones at least, w/o having to custom order one and wait months for it), i know places out west that are legit...will i have to fly out again to get a "legit" one or can i take a calculated risk here?

say, a small time somewhat legit dealer has one, doesn't know too much 'bout the trucks, has an okay "source" in japan, brings in a decent one, i get it checked out by an experience mechanic/expert, THEN getting the BEB's done, all fluids changed, belts, and essentially doing my own pre-sale prep....after? . . . . and essentially banking on the long term reliability of the engines and tranny's...? cuz people do kick the crap out of these trucks and yet they keep on rolling...

it just seems like it's hard to get complete evidence on what people say about "their" "trusted" auctioneer or connection in japan and how they do their own "complete" tests/inspections before purchasing and how they "know" how to stay away from roll backs....and that all is left is word of mouth and testimonials... and the pre-sale package which only a few offer...

so, horror stories please and thanks... or even success stories for that matter... i mean really, these trucks have only been in canada no more than 3 years since 2005 (i'm talking 90's to 92 offcourse, mind you haven't seen too many 92's yet... just late model 91's with shoulder belts in the rear). oh yeah, is it true about toyota fixing the BEB issue for 93's onwards...? 2008 is comin...

romey · 12-13-07, 03:15 PM

. . . i mean, we still have n. american gas land cruisers of the same age STILL goin with 300K or more miles and still ticking....more abused and wheeled in n. america.... with winters, salt, faster speeds, pulling trailers.....could the ones in japan be abused that much worse with their slower speeds, mandatory 2 year inspections, milder winters, no salt in the roads, higher grade diesels and petroleum products....??? just bein devils advocate...

dieseldan · 12-13-07, 04:57 PM

.. plenty of K's under my tires without any issues - any small electrical glitches typical of trucks of this vintage have been simple inexpensive fixes (relay or fuse). Many other drivetrain issues or mod's are posted up in the 80 series sections. For peace of mind I would keep a list of common part #'s handy so that if you end up with a problem far from civilization you can help yourself out - don't cheap out on regular maintenance and your cruiser won't let you down.

But no matter what if you can't afford to risk a major component failure or the possible downtime associated (daily driver) then a jdm isn't necessarily the most practical vehicle. Out here on the Wet Coast there are many reputable repair shops but you'll need to wait in line as there are also more and more imports coming in every month.

Personally I don't know of anyone who has bought an 81 and regretted it - I beleive the rewards far outweigh the risks.

romey · 12-14-07, 07:46 PM

that's good to hear dieseldan! thanks for the reply. i've owned my jdm surf for over 2 years now, put in about 76K kms and just rotella T oil changes, i did need a new heater core but i got it fixed for relatively cheap... goin from hilux to hdj81 is a huge jump with approx double the cost so i'm tryin to weigh things out...

romey · 12-28-07, 03:10 PM

103 looks, and no lemons yet! lol! this is good!

gbcruiser · 01-09-08, 10:09 AM

There are lemons, don't worry. I know of one 80 that has had head and temp woes since it arrived on these shores, another with a possible valve issue. But they are the vast minority.

Still, diesels are meant to be driven and I once read that vehicles that sit age about 7 times after than vehicle which are regularly driven. So which is better: a diesel with 300,000kms on the clock (nothing for a diesel) or one of the same age with 89,000?

I don't know, but my money is on the one with more k's, not less. At least it's worked out all the bugs...

romey · 01-09-08, 05:13 PM

i hear ya on that one gbcruiser. they're out there alright. . . and i just noticed one of the members with a fuel leak problem that's about to cost him dollars. . .best of luck to him.

i'm worrying now about the injector/pump issues with these jdm's as they get a different type of diesel used in them in canada (ultra low sulfur diesel??) and wreckin the seals. knock on wood for my hilux that i've had close to 2.5 years now...

hoping to not be in the "vast minority"...

canucksafari · 01-09-08, 05:41 PM

I understand that they have been using ULSD in Japan for more time then we have. That said, I think the leaks are becuase of a compbination of things. ULSD doesn't help. Like your said, dieselks are best if they are run frequently, especially for fuel system seals. The seals need diesel and work for lubrication and to keep them pliable. All of the current JDM diesels are of age that they were built with rubber seals. This will change as the 94s come in two years from now. The older NA diesels have the same problems with the old rubber seals. Just ask at any diesel fuel injection shop. The Chev diesels had a lot more problems with IPs. Some have only gotten 60,000 kms out of them and have had to go back a couple time to get them rebuilt at $3,500 a shot. In sum, the JDM diesels are still good value for the money - not perfect - but good value. Unless your pump has the viton type seals, it is only a matter of time until the rubber seals go, so start building up a contingency fund and sources for rebuilding or buying rebuilt.

romey · 01-09-08, 09:34 PM

ahh, i see! good to know.. so what your'e saying is that globally, all the seal/gasket manufacturers changed methods/materials and i guess all the newer seals came out, generally, in 94?

viton is a more durable substance as rubber i guess. kewl! hmmmm, 94/2009 eh?!

by then, newer nicer delica's, better hilux surf's with 3.0 L motors, better seals in jdm's, shoulder belts on the 81's......maybe i'll wait...

jcolvin · 01-09-08, 09:52 PM

THe HDJ's are pretty much bomb-proof. I can't see you getting a lemon unless you end up with one that's been sunk in the ocean or something. So long as the BEB's have been changed before they came apart you shouldn't have serious issues. The transmissions need a lot of abuse before they cause problems (overheating the torque converter is a risk when towing or climbing big hills, but this would be uncommon in Japan). You might get the odd problem (stuck difflocks for instance) but these trucks are so well built and abuse-resistant that you shouldn't get a "lemon". If you are really concerned get a compression check, otherwise a standard inspection should reveal any minor problems. There is so little electronics etc in these trucks and they are so over-built that lemon-type issues are rare.

romey · 01-09-08, 10:20 PM

thanks for the assurance jcolvin, i've heard that many times over...a good thing!

sounds like you got a pimpin 81, care to share some pics?!

or anyone for that matter?

c'mon folks this thread is gonna be show of your 81 thread now! lol!

gbcruiser · 01-11-08, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcolvin

(overheating the torque converter is a risk when towing or climbing big hills, but this would be uncommon in Japan).

I keep reading quotes about how in Japan the winters aren't severe, people don't drive their vehicles hard or tow, etc. I lived in Japan until 2006, and I can tell you, winters can be harsh and people can be hard on their vehicles--just in different ways.

Japan is an extremely mountainous country, and vehicles take mostly shorter trips in extreme temperatures. And they tow: every summer I'd spend time at the lake and watch people tow their boats, jet skis, trailers etc up the mountain roads.

People generally don't change their own oil, but instead wait for the mandatory inspections every 2 years. There are no Mr. Lubes or 10-Min oil changes to drive in to.

Oil filters are usually only changes every 2-3 oil changes, for example, and people tend to let vehicles idle for extremely long times while parked.

As these photos show, winter exists in Japan:
Hilton's 4WD Traveller: Winter, and then some

romey · 01-12-08, 10:57 AM

true, true. but the fact still remains, it is still why we have JDM's all over the world. those winters are only up in the mountains and nothing compared to ours. i've got family that lives there, for 10 years now, at least in shikoku, osaka, even tokyo, winters are nowhere near close to ours...the guys that tow, wheel are a minority, imho. put it this way, wherever they grow rice, there's no crazy winter, lol! i'm guessing that the condition/or mod of the cruiser that we see on auctions will tell the tale...roof rack, bush guards, lifts, then most likely they were taken offroad...some of the mint looking stock ones, were prolly yuppy SUV's that stayed mostly on pavement, like our equivalent X5 and escalade driving yummy momma's here, lol!

but i hear ya on the probable lack of maintenance on maybe some cars. but i saw pleny of mister lube type places in japan when we were there last summer.

lizardsinep · 01-12-08, 10:59 AM

Iam thinking on upgrading to a HDJ81 from a surf

So the auto's stand up well ? Iam always leary of an auto ... I figure the 5spd's are tuff but are not in many are they ?
seems they get close to the same mileage give or take a KM
Iave heard differant things about the BEB but its about 270$ in parts so its cheap insurance/peace of mind .
never seem to hear about to many problems ? unlike the LN130

romey · 01-17-08, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardsinep

Iam thinking on upgrading to a HDJ81 from a surf

So the auto's stand up well ? Iam always leary of an auto ... I figure the 5spd's are tuff but are not in many are they ?
seems they get close to the same mileage give or take a KM
Iave heard differant things about the BEB but its about 270$ in parts so its cheap insurance/peace of mind .
never seem to hear about to many problems ? unlike the LN130

heard auto's are a-okay and rev lower when cruising highway speeds. good strong "bus" tranny's and very little goes wrong, so i was told.. plannin on auto this time so wifey can drive it too, bad enough that she'll get all buggered up with RHD. . . she can't drive stick either, lol.

but, expect to pay 3-5 grand extra for 5spd, only cuz they're harder to find at the auctions and fetch top dollar.

we're in the same boat, goin from surf to 81! g'luck on your hunt!

romey · 01-17-08, 05:10 PM

hokay, i finally test drove my first 81 here in the greater toronto area...albeit from a very shady looking dealer. it was fun, nonetheless, to at least see one up close and check under the hood and undercarriage. place had 2 92's and just sold one (around 14K to 16K's, not bad eh?! but you get what you pay for).

these trucks clearly had an auction grade of 3/3.5 or even less...scuffed up, worn interiors, cig burns on the seats, tarnished and dirty (sorta what you'd find at the jdmconnection guys in alberta, based on their pics). . . so they auction less and thus sell less. but here's the kicker, they're in the 60/80K kms on the odo...hellooooo, roll back?! man, no way these trucks had that low of a mileage based on the use it looks like it's been through inside and under the hood.

anywho, the one i took out ran okay, started right up, and purred real nice (the only saving grace with TD toyota's). the engine bay looked decent/clean and untampered with, bone stock. worn seats and vinyl inside, a button missing on the right panel, and a couple plastic pieces on the back that came from i don't know where. went around the block and boy did it feel soo much more heavier and bulkier than my surf, but it drove real smooth i thought, brakes where more sluggish than mine tho.

maybe ya'll can answer this, some whiter smoke out the pipe and a stronger diesel smell compared to my surf....anything serious? maybe it burned richer?? my surf, albeit diff. motor, idles with no smoke and the exhaust smell isn't as overpowering...maybe it's just normal for the 4.2 inline 6?? and maybe it just needs to be run on the highway with a nice injector cleaner...whateva...

but i wanted to check out the 4H,N,L so i stopped at a parking lot, 'nother bad thing, the dang knob was stuck and would barely budge and get into gear! poor sales guys reefed on it, both arms and it finally gave but the light was flippin on/of and it was just as hard to put it back where it came from...so what's this? like no transfer case oil? symptom off...? man, very embarassing for the guy tho...who definitely had no idea 'bout these rigs, i explaind the BEB issues and the need to clean and re-lube the front end, and he was like taking notes and wanted to know which parts he should order from japan, lol, and i'm just a newbie.

anywho, big let down. but i want to check out his other 81 which was being cleaned with an intercooler and upgraded suspension, selling for 16G's...just for fun again

. it's got a gauge cluster in the centre console but according to him they don't work. the winch was taken out to fit the intercooler, kewl. parently this one's ready for wheeling too with adjustable shocks and a lift...

eitherway, all signs point out: buyer beware!

but just to be a devils advocate....say we haggle, and say we get it down to like 12 grand or thereabouts...worth it to take to a landrcruser mechanic and doing something similar to the presale service that say a luxuryimports or outback does? and so what if higher mileage/roll back...? can't see it being rolled back all the way from 300k...let's just say....

dieseldan · 01-17-08, 05:26 PM

Hard to comment on the rollback notion - maybe but maybe not - kms as low as that were really common to see though now 120-150k's are the norm. Maybe the PO was just not very neat and tidy... My guess is that a 12k rig will still run you closer to 15-18k by the time you replace what you must (beb's belts fluids headlamps and perhaps dot rubber) and improve what you want (paint, interior, misc. suprises) The importers have plenty of advantages to benefit from even though you pay for those kinds of assurances. So many cliche's come to mind - ya get what you pay for blah blah blah. Stiff shifters and smokey exhaust don't scream 'run away' to me - my brakes always seemed spongy but $90 worth of oem pads improved that a great deal...pretty much the toughest truck on the planet and take lots of abuse but nothings bullet proof. If you can deal with the cosmetic issues and have some pennies in the bank ya' might get lucky...
... do ya feel lucky?

lizardsinep · 01-17-08, 06:00 PM

Some whiter smoke out the pipe & stuck 4WD makes little alarm bells go off for me . I have a hilux that was probley NEVER put into 4wd and when I did all the seals leaked like crazy , front bearings were toast also .
hard to say on the od rollback , but seats shouldnt be worn out at 80 - maybe 150 ? who knows .

I quess a compression check would be a good idea .

romey · 01-17-08, 06:10 PM

lucky?! we'll see after i check my lotto numbers, lol!

but yeah, figured the same thing with the costs adding up. but you know, i look at the outback trucks and they're pretty damn close in shape to what i saw in person (rusty underneath, some scuffing/wear on the upholstery)...but for piece of mind, you get the presale package their rigs come with..i figure those guys save on getting lower auction vehicles (im guessing) and they bank on the reliability of the rest of the truck/plus their thorough package...which is why they can also offer the extended warranty, more bucks for them and chances are i figure 3/4's of the new owners that paid over a grand for extra piece of mind haven't had to come back for anything...ya think? not knockin on anyone, just my observation/opinion. then you have guys like luxury with ridiculously mint rigs, plus presale package, plus the guru's (wayne's) expertise walkin you through . . . but you pay more. but i do wish that someone like outback or luxuryimports would set up shop here in southern ontario...

baah, like what my old man always says..."value exists in the mind" . . . you just have to add a dash of "calculated risks" to make life more interesting...

i'll try and take pics of that other 81 with the intercooler and share it, if shady guy lets me

romey · 01-17-08, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardsinep

Some whiter smoke out the pipe & stuck 4WD makes little alarm bells go off for me . I have a hilux that was probley NEVER put into 4wd and when I did all the seals leaked like crazy , front bearings were toast also .
hard to say on the od rollback , but seats shouldnt be worn out at 80 - maybe 150 ? who knows .

I quess a compression check would be a good idea .

yeah, that's what i was buggin on, mind you it was a cold start, i shoulda checked it idling after the short ride. i bet that diesel was still from japan....as that truck lay there on that vast lot, next to dozens of other hdj81's, waiting to get auctioned of sitting for weeks if not months (saying, pick me! pick me!).. . man, it must be like the humane society there for these old/unwanted trucks in japan. lol. in some jdm dealer site pics, you literally see sometimes hundreds of other vehicles in the background at the shipping yard... or wherever they sit in shikoku, tokyo, negoya, etc....

i like checkin the USS site from time to time. if ya'll haven't done it yet check here:

Please login here https://bzl.cis6200.jp/e/ and enter password E90853

straight from the jdmconnection site...(okay for me to post this mods?)

i saw the same link from another jdm importer but with a different password and i got identical info (i'm guessing these are bidding accounts the importers can get). i'm told the USS auction system is the more reliable/legit one?

canucksafari · 01-17-08, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romey

heard auto's are a-okay and rev lower when cruising highway speeds. good strong "bus" tranny's and very little goes wrong, so i was told.. plannin on auto this time so wifey can drive it too, bad enough that she'll get all buggered up with RHD. . . she can't drive stick either, lol.

My wife is not mechanical and she seemed to pic it up quick in one lesson - maybe because she never drove a standard before and is a South Paw. Anyways, we haven't revisited that lesson cause I am afraid she will always want to drive my rig.

romey · 01-17-08, 09:20 PM

lol. never mind standard, my wife get's freaked out with her AUTOMATIC up steep hills when she has to stop midway cuz sometimes the tires squeal! 'magine on first gear?! yikes!!

zambiamud · 01-18-08, 01:36 AM

imported a 1993 jdm 81 VX with 93K on the clock. imported to zambia, africa through a local importer. knock on wood nothing major (nor minor). am at 108K now, after a run to south africa (4K) and some hard-core bush-whacking through Botswana (3500kms), and some bush-whacking in Lower Zam national park (1000kms)

Have a good bit of 'white smoke' coming out the tail, esp at start up or when slamming down the pedal. however, quite frankly almost all other jdm81 VX i see here does the exact same thing. had the injectors replaced...but with marginal improvement. we are at 1200m here in lusaka...could that affect it? rig gets going with the turbo when compared to other VXs

zambia roads are hideous and bots bush is tough. rig takes at all in stride.

extra fitted kit:
2.1m Outback rack with sun roof cut out and extra rail;
70L aux fuel tank;
BFG 285/75R16s;
turbo timer

question: lemon???
no way. not yet at least. mechanic gets a woody everytime i bring the rig in, as he is impressed at the condition.

small annoyances have been: tiny engine oil leak fixed with ultra-high temp gasket fix; AC recharged; sun roof knocking over undulations; ceiling lining staring to come undone on one side; driver seast has 1cm rip; small main tank - fixed with fitted aux tank - gravity feed; insuring the rig in Zambia is costly; 285s sometimes rub when laden...

other than that...am f&*$ing happy as can be.

romey · 01-19-08, 03:58 AM

thanks for sharing zambiamud! and glad you're happy as can f*$# be!

woah, sounds like you're rig's right at home, right where it was designed for, where you are. care to share some pics if you got em handy?! guessing the back seats have shoulder belts, i think those came late 91's and into the 92's and i believe the trimming inside has changed as well compared to the 90's. does your coolbox work? care to share what you got the rig for? i guess the costs from japan should be similar to other auctioned jdm's...and maybe shipping to africa and diff.paperwork/customs costs is a bit different from canada...just curious.

oh yeah, these auxillary tanks, guessing they bolt on underneath where the spare tire would sit if the truck didn't have a gate? wow, 'magine the range of that rig! over 1000Kms before the next tank up?! noice!

Cruisin' · 01-19-08, 01:31 PM

Hi all. I though I'd chime in with my success story. I imported a '91 HDJ 81 with 110,000km on the clock. A 4 with a B interior. I used Providecars.com. To get it legal I only had to change headlights, tires, add some $2 reflectors on the front bumper and get a bit of messy wiring cleaned up. No big deal. I took care of the BEBs at 114,000. Bought the parts from G&S (somewhere around $200 for bearings and new bolts IIRC) and did the job myself in the driveway. Man was that money well spent. The set in #1 rod were nearly toast.

The truck ran great from day one. Blows a puff of black at startup, and under heavy load. I have been putting Howel's Diesel Treat in with every tank, and the more I drive it the less it smokes. The diff locks were not working when I got it. I assumed they were stuck, but when installing my new stereo I discovered that the switch was just unplugged. Plugged it in and they worked perfectly.

Nothin' but smiled from this 81 owner.

lizardsinep · 01-20-08, 11:43 AM

overland-underwater.com - A Charity Drive UK-NZ - Home Page

these guys did some MAJOR travels in there 80"s

romey · 01-21-08, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardsinep

overland-underwater.com - A Charity Drive UK-NZ - Home Page

these guys did some MAJOR travels in there 80"s

in-frickin-sane!

thanks for sharing.

hope to at least do alaska from ontario...one day...

there's been a bunch of these guys that have done these crazy expeditions..tryin to find the one with guys goin from alaska to the tip of chile on VW synchros i believe... so inspiring!

gbcruiser · 01-22-08, 04:26 PM

Somewhat less than sane, but certainly not insane: an acquaintance of mine is circling the globe right now in his 80:

Hilton's 4WD Traveller: 4x4 Vagabond: Wheeling the World

romey · 03-10-08, 10:42 PM

question, when these trucks were bought new in japan, what did they come with standard? i.e. owners manual, tools/jack, etc... i know the jack is on the left side panel in the rear, where are the tools stored? and does the jack have a bar to "jack" it up? did they all come standard with the vinyl trunk cover that pulls out and covers the trunk? i've seen lot's of them with the bracket for it but not all seem to have this vinyl cover? maybe order one from toyota usa?

i know there's a trend with the "D" light in the dash for auto trannies goin out after over 100K kms, are there any other little minor thingy's that go? (i've seen one with the fan speed switch for the heater/AC stopped working, well the middle 2 buttons, hi and low still work)

and lastly, is there a big difference with the different companies that make the BEB's? i've seen quite the range, from tyota oem (that come with the bolts and silicon) to ACL's, to MDG(?), to kyo or tyo(?) or are they all just the same metal? and used with synthetic should last a long time after replacing?

oops, one more thing, i found one for sale but it has a transfer case issue, someting about the t-case clutch needing replacement, making a grinding noise of some sort, this common? or did this t-case go b/c of poor maintenance of fluids??

thanks!

crushers · 05-01-08, 03:48 AM

where are you getting your "facts" from?

i bring in low km units and if you are going to spout shit best have something to back it up with..

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbcruiser

There are lemons, don't worry. I know of one 80 that has had head and temp woes since it arrived on these shores, another with a possible valve issue. But they are the vast minority.

Still, diesels are meant to be driven and I once read that vehicles that sit age about 7 times after than vehicle which are regularly driven. So which is better: a diesel with 300,000kms on the clock (nothing for a diesel) or one of the same age with 89,000?

I don't know, but my money is on the one with more k's, not less. At least it's worked out all the bugs...