JDM HDJ81 lemons... anyone have one? - Page 2

Kalawang · 05-03-08, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crushers

where are you getting your "facts" from?

i bring in low km units and if you are going to spout shit best have something to back it up with..

The only problems I've found with the JDM cruisers were caused by bad conversions and bad mechanics. Since all JDM's here are required by law to be converted that's the scary part in buying one. I chose a seller with a very good reputation and even got to watch his people doing some conversions. ( Sorry, no pics. They didn't allow cameras in the lot. ) The only problem I have now is the bad mechanics who try to throw parts at problems they don't understand.

Kalawang

crushers · 05-04-08, 02:14 PM

a left hand drive conversion is not cheap if it is to be done right... i can understand your fear.

Kalawang · 05-05-08, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crushers

a left hand drive conversion is not cheap if it is to be done right... i can understand your fear.

It wouldn't be cheap in your part of the world. The conversion is labor intensive done our way and parts expensive done your way. The contractors for the conversions were paid about U.S. $ 500/unit, but that was about six years ago. The job can be done well but needs attention to detail. Not always available when you have a number of people on the job and not a lot of time.

Way back in the beginning some of the conversions fell apart, though not necessarily in so very dramatic a fashion. Things have gotten much better since and the mistakes corrected.

Kalawang

romey · 05-14-08, 10:18 PM

guess it's official, my 80: http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...wb-80-jdm.html

thanks to all who have given lot's of great input!

canucksafari · 05-14-08, 10:48 PM

Congrats Romey. Hope you have many enjoyable years with her.

romey · 05-15-08, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canucksafari

Congrats Romey. Hope you have many enjoyable years with her.

thanks John! plan on keepin her for a while...

hey, the japanese writing on your sig, meaning?

canucksafari · 05-15-08, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romey

thanks John! plan on keepin her for a while...

hey, the japanese writing on your sig, meaning?

Its a secrete message meant to keep people from more important things.

romey · 05-16-08, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canucksafari

Its a secrete message meant to keep people from more important things.

that's it, calling my japanese friend!

Bozza · 11-15-08, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romey

true, true. but the fact still remains, it is still why we have JDM's all over the world. those winters are only up in the mountains and nothing compared to ours. i've got family that lives there, for 10 years now, at least in shikoku, osaka, even tokyo, winters are nowhere near close to ours...

That's like saying American winters aren't cold because my relatives in Florida say they aren't.

Hokkaido, one-fifth the landmass of the country has severe arctic winters and Sapporo is like, say, Montreal in winter. Hokkaido is just across the water from Siberia.

If that is the climate you want to be subjecting your vehicle to I'd be trying to source something from the auctions out of northern Japan. Everything sold in Hokkaido (for example), for any manufacturer and any make, is always an arctic spec.

Better, try to get one that spent most of its life down south. There are plenty of those. Some parts of Hokkaido use quite 'wicked' chemicals on the roads in winter and they can tend to do some weird things to the underside of the vehicle. There are some rust issues in Hokkaido you'd not see in any other place in Japan.

On some other points:
- cars/trucks in Japan are often returned to 'stock' at sale because the owners always keep the original parts and hand them over at sale. Only until about 10 years ago, you would always have to return the vehicle stock to get it re-registered. Registration inspections, every two years, are mandatory in Japan. There was a time when it wouldn't be registered if you'd played with it. So, the fact they look new and shiny and without an off-road part on them doesn't mean they didn't up until you saw the sale/auction photo.

- BEB is not common in Japan. Infact I'd go so far as to say it doesn't exist. BEB problems are (in my humble opinion) a toxicity issue related to the quality of the fuel in combination with the quality of the oil needed in Japanese diesels. The cocktails eats away the surface of the metals and the stress on the bearing surfaces do the rest. BEB issues are most common in Australia, and for those same two reasons (fuel quality and oil quality). That's why many Australian long-time 80 series diesel drivers are anal about the oil they use, now.

-DIY is not common in Japan. It's a product/leftover of the mandatory inspection system across the country. Once upon a time it was considered illegal for non-qualified persons from servicing a vehicle. If the vehicle has been a soccer-mom vehicle you can guarantee it has been serviced, on the dot, every 5000km by the local Toyota dealer. They ring you, and pick up the vehicle. That means it's had nothing put Toyota oil and Toyota filters and other Toyota parts. This is good. If the vehicle was an off road one, then the owner was probably part of a club that is almost always associated/affiliation with a 4x4 shop. This is also good. They play with lots of aftermarket parts, but they usually use the Toyota oil and filters. The remainder will be the vehicles that get regularly serviced, but always at the local gas station (they still run out to serve you in Japan!!) These places keep close checks on your milage and tell you when you need an oil change (its their business to do it). Whilst these vehicles are regularly serviced, they are not serviced with Toyota brands. They will be the company's oil and the company's no-name filters.

Cheers

crushers · 11-15-08, 08:46 AM

agree with most of your post EXCEPT the BEB concern...
there have had a couple of 81s sold in Canada with the BEB gone shortly after purchase...
cheap insurance to have them changed once the unit arrives...

Greg_B · 11-15-08, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bozza

- BEB is not common in Japan. Infact I'd go so far as to say it doesn't exist. BEB problems are (in my humble opinion) a toxicity issue related to the quality of the fuel in combination with the quality of the oil needed in Japanese diesels. The cocktails eats away the surface of the metals and the stress on the bearing surfaces do the rest. BEB issues are most common in Australia, and for those same two reasons (fuel quality and oil quality). That's why many Australian long-time 80 series diesel drivers are anal about the oil they use, now.-Cheers

This flies in the face of what we have seen. Through our connections with shops that work on these rigs immediately, or soon after they arrive from Japan we have heard about, and seen too many connecting rod bearings on their way out.

Also, the same has applied to raw drivetrains we have imported from Japan over the last 6-7 years.

Same for the 1HZ, however certainly to a smaller precentage. But still enough to cause concern and mandate we change out the connecting rod bearings and make then turbo ready.

Folks...do them. It is the cheapest insurance you can buy.

gb

Bozza · 11-18-08, 07:21 AM

On BEB matters, it doesn't matter where you are, it's cheap insurance to be replacing them at 100K, most particularly if you have a 1HD-T. When there is a known issue with a part you would be foolish not to.

This was not my point, however. My point was that BEB is not an issue in Japan because there is almost no history of terminal failure associated with the problem.

There are are number of factors, beyond fuel and oil quality, associated with this but it's been done to death before and I'd not want to start it all again.

You should replace them, and I would recommend you use tri-metal bearings and not bi-metal as were the original factory spec before replacement by Toyota when the 1HD-FT appeared. ACL springs to mind...

Greg_B · 11-18-08, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bozza

This was not my point, however. My point was that BEB is not an issue in Japan because there is almost no history of terminal failure associated with the problem.

And that is the exact point of Wayne, and I. It is an issue. I can't speak to what is common practice in Japan. I can speak to what is being seen in Canada as soon as these engines are checked upon arrival. This speaks directly to there being an issue. There are a couple interpolations one can make as to why it does not seem common knowledge in Japan, but that's a mugs game.

Yes on the bearings. ACL duraglide imo is the best replacement.

gb

crushers · 11-18-08, 08:36 AM

Hummm, i would say G&S will disagree with that statement as will I and the other poor blokes that bought a HDJ81 from Japan only to resell it for parts since the bearing went out shortly after arrival in Canada...

but you believe what you do, who am i to try and discurage a bloke from believing what he wants to believe...

just remember, Oz Toyota also wouldn't admit there was a problem with the BEB there up till a few years back (and from what i hear they still will not warranty the issue)

crushers · 11-18-08, 08:38 AM

Crap, Greg and i posted almost the same time...

Bozza · 11-22-08, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crushers

...
but you believe what you do, who am i to try and discurage a bloke from believing what he wants to believe...

Hmmm...I wonder if its worth it.

I drove 240K on my old 1HD over the 13 years I was living there. When I took my bearings out at 200k they were in great condition for 200k old bearings, but I was still happy to see them out. Just because mine had not suffered catastrophic failure does not mean I don't believe there haven't been instances of it. I do not presume to use my single experience to define the nature of every 1HD out there.

All parts wear. Big end bearings wear. They're allowed to. They get a pretty savage hammering in the 1HD powerstroke. But in Land Cruiser speak, the 'BEB issue' refers to specific instances of catastrophic bearing metal surface failure, mostly identified by the Australian guys. This has occurred at anywhere between 50K to 200K. There was no pattern, except they definetely were not using Toyota oil and they were definetly not using Japan market standard diesel. And, in terms of oil toxicity these two things are related. For other reasons, this same issue once concerned many of my Isuzu diesel-engine engineer friends.

This is definetly not a normal 'wear' issue:

romey · 11-22-08, 10:36 AM

good talk on beb's so far, thanks for the input. but just out of curiosity, are there noticeable early "symptoms" of beb's failing? i heard a drop in oil pressure? correct? i know the gauges on these rigs aren't the most accurate, but i guess we can always compare or monitor where it is at now? and then relative to where we think normal is, a drop would indicate something? just taking an unedumacated stab at it, lol.

well, i do plan on getting my beb's done at prolly 100K. bought the rig with 50K and i'm still at 70K now and only been using amsoil and OEM or donaldson filters...it's amazing how clean the oil still looks after over 1K kms...compared to when i used to use rotella T diesel oil...

lots of talk on ACL's and i've heard others use Tyho (sp?) then some folks are also carrying OEM beb kits with rod end bolts and silicone...but for much more $$ than the ACL's... is it even worth it to spend on the newer/improved OEM bearings?? i know everyone swears by ACL's. and do the rod end bolts need replacing as well with a typical BEB job?

Bozza · 11-25-08, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romey

but just out of curiosity, are there noticeable early "symptoms" of beb's failing? i heard a drop in oil pressure? correct?

An oil pressure drop is a symtom indicating imminent failure... expect a 'leg out of bed' or a total loss of power or smoke at any moment. It hardly helps you if you're on the road. Most failures don't give you any warning - but there is (sometimes) a tick! associated with bearing failure. The tick! is a sign of the top of a piston just kissing the head every now and then because of a failing big end bearing. As you can see in the photo above, breakdown of the bearing lining can be extreme. This equates to a 'sloppiness' in the fit (they are designed to be in there very 'snuggly' so precise thickness is an essential feature of the performance equation). The sloppiness lets the piston travel (fractionally) too far and it can kiss the head. The more savage the lining breakdown the (fractionally) 'thinner' it is becoming and the further the distance the head can over-travel. The kiss can become a hit...and caput!

The problem is... the whole 1H family (1HZ, 1HDT, 1HDFT, 1HDFTE) ticks. They all tick, for other (less precise) reasons. Its a question of whether the ticking is the tick!

crushers · 11-25-08, 06:53 AM

love it:

Its a question of whether the ticking is THE tick!

the $6500 question!!

Cruisin' · 11-25-08, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romey

well, i do plan on getting my beb's done at prolly 100K. bought the rig with 50K and i'm still at 70K now and only been using amsoil and OEM or donaldson filters...it's amazing how clean the oil still looks after over 1K kms...compared to when i used to use rotella T diesel oil...

Why wait? I did mine at 115,000km shortly after getting the truck from Japan. Two of the BEBs were downright scary looking. I can only assume that they were starting to break down by 70k or 80k. If I were driving your truck I would just do them now and have the peace of mind. If you were planning to do them at 100,000 and one happened to let go at 98,000...

My $0.02

Jason

Greg_B · 11-25-08, 09:09 AM

Bozza, I am glad you posted up those pictures. Now go to the diesel/24V section and search BEB, connecting rod bearing, etc and take a look at pictures of bearings folks have posted up from JDM motors which started and lived their life on JDM spec oils and such. Some showed no problems, however many others showed significant pitting and delamination on one or more bearing surfaces. What has been posted here by private individuals matches what importers and mechanic shops have seen on JDM vehicles and drivetrains.

gb

romey · 11-25-08, 09:19 PM

thanks for the visual on that bozza! dang ticks!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bozza

An oil pressure drop is a symtom indicating imminent failure... expect a 'leg out of bed' or a total loss of power or smoke at any moment. It hardly helps you if you're on the road. Most failures don't give you any warning - but there is (sometimes) a tick! associated with bearing failure. The tick! is a sign of the top of a piston just kissing the head every now and then because of a failing big end bearing. As you can see in the photo above, breakdown of the bearing lining can be extreme. This equates to a 'sloppiness' in the fit (they are designed to be in there very 'snuggly' so precise thickness is an essential feature of the performance equation). The sloppiness lets the piston travel (fractionally) too far and it can kiss the head. The more savage the lining breakdown the (fractionally) 'thinner' it is becoming and the further the distance the head can over-travel. The kiss can become a hit...and caput!

The problem is... the whole 1H family (1HZ, 1HDT, 1HDFT, 1HDFTE) ticks. They all tick, for other (less precise) reasons. Its a question of whether the ticking is the tick!

romey · 11-25-08, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruisin'

Why wait? I did mine at 115,000km shortly after getting the truck from Japan. Two of the BEBs were downright scary looking. I can only assume that they were starting to break down by 70k or 80k. If I were driving your truck I would just do them now and have the peace of mind. If you were planning to do them at 100,000 and one happened to let go at 98,000...

My $0.02

Jason

hear ya, calculated $6500 risk?! well, been searching around here for someone who can do them . . . i think i'm wheeling with a fellow mudder this weekend who might be able to do them, if there's time ....

his name rhymes with "dwayne"...

Bozza · 11-27-08, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romey

lots of talk on ACL's and i've heard others use Tyho (sp?) then some folks are also carrying OEM beb kits with rod end bolts and silicone...but for much more $$ than the ACL's... is it even worth it to spend on the newer/improved OEM bearings?? i know everyone swears by ACL's. and do the rod end bolts need replacing as well with a typical BEB job?

There are a number of people in Australia who report pitting and lining breakdown no matter which brand they use. These people now change them every 90-100K with the timing belt changes. I think the main priority should be to change yours out and then establish when you next do them by the state of the old ones. Some vehicles never have an issue. Some always do.　You'd get better peace of mind knowing whther yours is like one or the other...or somewhere in between.

crushers · 11-27-08, 07:47 AM

LOL!!
duh wayne

that made me laugh...

romey · 11-27-08, 09:04 PM

see ya saturday Wayne!

crushers · 11-30-08, 07:00 AM

Good wheeling with you and the boys, great fun...hope you had fun...

IronYuppy · 11-30-08, 10:25 AM

There are two guys in out club who have had issues with their HDJ81s. I won't identify them unless they want to "out" themselves.

One guy "Joe" had a few issues, including a leaking fuel pump and a bad head and some other related issues. His truck came with a replacement rad, so his theory is that someone ran it with a bad rad, overheated it, and warped the head.

The other guy "Bill" has had problems with his auto tranny, and it won't go into 1st gear. The problem seems to stem from a bad repair job here in Canada, but I'm not sure why it needed repair in the first place.

romey · 11-30-08, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crushers

Good wheeling with you and the boys, great fun...hope you had fun...

had tonnes of fun Wayne! thanks for all the tips and tricks!

cheers!

sailor · 12-04-08, 07:18 PM

I suggest you budget $3,500 for upgrades, baseline repairs. Mine needed a lot of little things like front axle seals, front rotors, some bushings etc. I added baselining all fluids, BEB, Valve clearances, thermostat and rad/ trans flush. The oil they change in Japan before sending it here is crap and the oil pressure gauge is known to read low. Considering all the work done I think I was treated fairly. (Ateb)