[jonb96150]

Originally Posted by bigndn

Also, FWIW, I'd be more worried about a cow moose with a calf than a worlf.

The Truth!!!

[IdahoDoug]

A buddy of mine was cross country skiing in Alaska. Like me, he sucked at this sport. One day he's out skiing and the trail was pretty crusty so you couldn't really get out of it easily and he comes over a rise to see a huge moose standing at the bottom right on the trail. Before he had fully absorbed it, he was whistling downhill and he realized if he either bailed purposely or fell accidentally he would just end up in a tangle right in front of it. So he just held his breath and tried not to fall as he whizzed by so close he had to lean away to not touch it, and kept right on going.

I've heard they have horrible eyesight and he thinks this kept him from getting his butt stomped as by the time the moose could focus on him he was passing it silently. It never moved. He had a 357 which as he tells the story would have been the perfect thing to put himself out of misery if it had stomped him.

DougM

[yotawheeler]

i wouldnt be overly worried about a wolf either, and where im at i cant have a pistol on me unless i have a miners lisence or jump through a million hoops of some sort..what i would have is a good sturdy, fixed blade knife for everybody in the family, make sure they know how to use them and if you want then carry your 9mm and enjoy the nature...every time i go into the bush i try to make sure i wont be helpless if something happens...a knife is the least i go with even when im running in the bush never had to use it but the extra weight is worth the peace of mind.

[IDave]

Originally Posted by IdahoDoug

He had a 357 which as he tells the story would have been the perfect thing to put himself out of misery if it had stomped him.

DougM

Would have worked fine on a worlf. Gawd but mooses scare the bjesus out of me (I've been charged twice). I think the next time I'll have a heart attack.

[IdahoDoug]

That same buddy later had a heart attack at the ripe old age of 45 while he was out running one day. Fortunately for him, his wife was literally driving past waving when he went down.

I guess I should finish that. He was OK though on some heart med now for the rest of his life. Scary.

DougM

[John Galt]

In almost all cases I agree that wolves are not the problem that bears can be. If however you were seriously injured and bleeding then a hungry wolf just might consider you fair game. Since you're more likely to encounter a problem bear, a 12ga or magnum revolver is the preferred weapon for bush carry. Having said that, a smart dog with good bush sense is better than a gun in almost every case. My dog has no problem scaring off bears that are much bigger than him. He's got a very specific 'bear bark' that always makes them turn around and go the other way.

[Gold Boy]

something like this?

The Super Redhawk Alaskan

Introduced in 2005, the Ruger Alaskan is Ruger's first short barrelled, big bore revolver. The 2 1/2" barrel on the Alaskan ends at the end of the frame, and the scope bases are omitted. The interchangeable front sight is replaced with a pinned in ramp sight, but the adjustable rear sight is retained. The Alaskan is available in .44 Magnum, .454 Casull/.45 Colt, and .480 Ruger, with the .480 model originally a 6 shot, replaced in 2008 with a 5 shot model. All Alaskans feature a brushed stainless finish and a Hogue Tamer rubber finger groove grip, rather than the standard GP-100 style. The .454 and .480 versions have an unfluted cylinder while the .44 Magnum features a fluted cylinder.

Intended for use as defense against large, dangerous animals, the Alaskan offers more power than most other revolvers of its compact size, when loaded with .454 Casull or .480 Ruger, and is rivaled only by competing models from Taurus.

[IdahoDoug]

I looked at that exact gun early in my search for a bear gun. The guy at the gub shop handed it to me, I laughed and wiggled it around for 3 seconds and handed it back. To say it's big is an understatement. Felt like a comic parody of a gun. It would definitely get the job done, but it's so large carrying it would be an issue for me. For a short barrel, the thing felt like it was a foot long.

DougM

[Bogo]

Originally Posted by John Galt

In almost all cases I agree that wolves are not the problem that bears can be. If however you were seriously injured and bleeding then a hungry wolf just might consider you fair game. Since you're more likely to encounter a problem bear, a 12ga or magnum revolver is the preferred weapon for bush carry. Having said that, a smart dog with good bush sense is better than a gun in almost every case. My dog has no problem scaring off bears that are much bigger than him. He's got a very specific 'bear bark' that always makes them turn around and go the other way.

Wolves and dogs don't mix. Leave the dog at home. Enter wolf territory with a dog and you are gambling with your dog's life. The wolves will track and kill your dog even with you there.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Bogo

Wolves and dogs don't mix. Leave the dog at home. Enter wolf territory with a dog and you are gambling with your dog's life. The wolves will track and kill your dog even with you there.

Don't believe everything you think.

We live in wolf territory. I know when my dog is barking at wolves in the area.
Southerners don't know jack shit about life in the North.

[lunyou]

^who let you out of chat?

lunyou

[JayMilla]

Some dogs are good for bears. Many are not.

Dogs are wolf food. Keep them close in wolf country, or they might not come back.

[John Galt]

Yeah, one or two fluffy little house pets get grabbed by wolves every year, but there are no common incidents of real dogs eaten by wolves up here. Some dogs are stupid, some dogs are smart, just like humans. Some people believe anything they read on the internet.

[JayMilla]

What exactly is a "real dog"?
Where exactly is "up here"?
A dog, any dog, is no match for a pack of wolves.

[John Galt]

Wolves are a much greater threat to horses than to humans or dogs, especially to the young foals. This has always been a problem up here and the wildlife management folks work closely with the outfitters to keep wolf numbers in balance with their traditional wild food sources. At one recent meeting in one of the remote communities the wildlife branch was hosting a public meeting on various methods of wolf population control. The pros and cons of aerial shooting versus the traditional aboriginal methods of culling pups from the dens in the spring were being discussed. When the discussion reached a lull, a young eco-muffin, tree-hugger stood up and proclaimed in her very concerned, obviously upset, voice "You don't have to kill these beautiful creatures, you just have to live trap them and castrate the males". At which point one of the crusty old outfitters in the back of the room turned to his buddy beside him and commented in a voice you could hear all over the room "She don't seem to understnd that those wolves are eaten our horses, not fuckin' 'em to death".
At that point the meeting dissolved in a great deal of laughter.

[JayMilla]

Thanks for your concise answers.
It sounds like you live in Canada or Alaska, where there are human checks to wolves. Wolves are smart enough to stay clear of what kills them. A barking dog means humans, and humans bring death.
I live in southwest Montana, where wolves are federally protected. They have no predators here. Maybe griz, but they tend to eat other things. The wolves here are not afraid of humans or dogs. They don't prey on humans, but they don't fear us either. A dog's bark around here is a dinner bell.
So, your dog advice may be pertinent in your locale.
It holds no water here.

[Gold Boy]

i seem to remember a few years back that a pack of wolves killed and eat a rottweiler on someones porch in Port Alberni BC.

and also this.

[MTN HOME TLC]

In response to taking a picture. I was in the Featherville area last fall with my 12 year old daughter during deer season. I prefer to hunt the late season archery hunt so the only weapon we carried was her rifle a tc encore, that I had strapped into my backpack for the trip out in the dark. We came down off the mountain to the trail 5 miles from the cruiser and what was waiting for us 3 wolves. I tried to scare them off I put my hands over my head and yelled and charged at the closest wolf in the trail and it simply looked at me and didn't back down. I got the rifle free but couldn't get enough light from my headlamp to target the wolf. We made a break for the truck and the wolves back trailed us for about a quarter mile until they lost intrest.
So yeah I guess I should have had my camera and got a shot of a life time. I will not go in again with out a side arm and I will shoot everyone that I see. I might even tell the authorities I did it.

[Bogo]

Originally Posted by 4WD Toyota Owner Magazine

Maybe Idaho wolves are different. I doubt it.

Idaho wolves are NOT hunted so their natural fear of man is not reinforced by seeing their pack members shot dead. There are a few exceptions where they can be killed and they are not enough to teach a fear of man. In Alaska they can be hunted so they have the opportunity to see man as a threat. That makes a big difference in how they react to the presence of humans.

Wolf Management - Current Status

Current Legal Status

Wolves in Idaho are protected under the federal Endangered Species Act.
On July 18, 2008, wolf management south of Interstate 90 reverted to a section of the Endangered Species Act known as the 10(j) rule, which was amended in January. The unchanged parts of the 2005 10(j) are still in force. View the text of the 2005 10(j) rule - [USFWS PDF file] and text of the amended portions of the 10(j) rule - [USFWS PDF file].
Simply put, the 10(j) rule allows states and tribes with approved wolf management plans some options to manage wolves to ensure the health of wild elk and deer herds - [PDF, 14 KB]. It also provides more flexibility to protect livestock and private property. The rule allows individuals on private or public land to kill a wolf that is in the act of attacking their stock animals (horses, mules, donkey, llamas, goats used to transport people and possessions) or dogs provided there is no evidence of intentional baiting, feeding or deliberate attractants of wolves. On land north of Interstate 90 in Idaho, or land administered by the National Park Service, wolves may be killed only to protect human life.
When wolves are delisted they will be managed under Idaho state law.

[MTN HOME TLC]

The other interesting thing about idaho state wolf law is that if you feel threatened you can defend yourself. Ask your Idaho game warden what he defines as threatened and most will tell you that is up to you.

[IdahoDoug]

That would be a tough call at times. Me alone in the backcountry - one level of concern. Me with my little kids and wife - quite another. I'd hate to have to kill any animal in self defense but a more conservative approach (ie when it's still a ways off but threatening) would be my preference. Heck, a pack of wild dogs would earn a bullet if encountered in the woods and they're circling and not leaving so how much moreso a group of wilder and more capable wolves?

I guess it's the same as it ever was....

[bigndn]

Originally Posted by IdahoDoug

I guess it's the same as it ever was....

Yes, Sir! We're only the top of the food chain because we can build and use tools. Otherwise, we're pretty sad compared to most critters for strength, speed, and built in weapons.

[bkfj40]

Originally Posted by Bogo

Idaho wolves are NOT hunted so their natural fear of man is not reinforced by seeing their pack members shot dead. There are a few exceptions where they can be killed and they are not enough to teach a fear of man. In Alaska they can be hunted so they have the opportunity to see man as a threat. That makes a big difference in how they react to the presence of humans.

Wolf Management - Current Status

When I lived in Grand Teton National Park, I was only concerned with coyotes and my dogs. The wolves never got down that far when I lived ther (1999 - 2001) I still don't quite know how you would plan to shoot a wolf with your dog entangled with it....maybe you're a better shot than me.


Will Idaho still keep them on a state endangered species list?

Endangered Species Program: Home Page


March 6, 2009
WASHINGTON, D.C. - Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar today affirmed the decision by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to remove gray wolves from the list of threatened and endangered species in the western Great Lakes and the northern Rocky Mountain states of Idaho and Montana and parts of Washington, Oregon and Utah. Wolves will remain a protected species in Wyoming



bk

[IDave]

Originally Posted by bkfj40

Will Idaho still keep them on a state endangered species list?

HA! No. There are plans in place for a hunt with tags, etc, this fall. The plan has been ready to go essentially as it is for some time (basically since 2002), just waiting for the legal issues to stabilize. The goal is to reduce the population to 518 from the current estimate of 846 worlfs statewide.

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/apps/re...fm?NewsID=4834

[thisilldefend]

I wouldnt worry about a large dog. Not even the cats or bears.
We bugled and rattled in cats before. We had to yell at them and throw rocks. The Black bears run when you yell at them. Grizzlys do kinda make me nervous.
But its the horny bull moose that really scares me.

But for protection nothing beats a shotgun. Most guys cant shoot a handgun when its a matter of life or death.

[IdahoDoug]

Yeah, I'd take my shottie over any handgun as animal defense - just kinda hard to carry around and keep out of view. I don't need Biff and Wanda Vanderson from NAPA Valley complaining to the Forest Service about a guy and his family they saw while walking their Snoodlehound in the big bad woods.

DougM

[bigndn]

Originally Posted by IdahoDoug

I don't need Biff and Wanda Vanderson from NAPA Valley complaining to the Forest Service about a guy and his family they saw while walking their Snoodlehound in the big bad woods.

DougM

Remember that National Forest is YOUR land. You can carry anything you want to. Winchester Model 1300 Ranger is the new Bear Spray.

36CFR261 10(d) prohibits the following:

Discharging a firearm or any other implement capable of taking human life, causing injury, or damaging property as follows: (1) In or within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation area or occupied area, or (2) Across or on a National Forest System road or a body of water adjacent thereto, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result in such discharge. (3) Into or within any cave.

In other words, piss on Biff and Wanda. If you'd like to talk to the Patrol Captain for the IPNF, I will PM you his direct number.

[IdahoDoug]

I like it. I'd also like very much to urinate on Biff and Wanda.

DougM

[bigndn]

PMing you now.....

[IdahoDoug]

Thanks Chad. Got the info and it's timely as heck as I'll be up the CDA river camping with my daughter and her camp group girls so they can get their merit badges for shelter making, fire starting etc. I'll be the bear repellant as well....

DougM