[Brian in Oregon]

Remington Model R-15 VTR™ Modular Repeating Rifles

My dealer ordered one of these when Remington first announced them. It finally showed up yesterday. Went over there tonight to look at it.

First, let me say that I have a 20" heavy 1" dia barrel flattop. It's a good position rifle to shoot from a rest or bipod, but I'd rather have something lighter for coyote hunting. I have been using an XM177E2 clone, as well as an old AR15A1. Neither of these are optics friendly because of the fixed carry handles, but the weight and balance is closer to what I want in a coyote rifle. I like the collapsible buttstock on the XM177E2, but for a pure hunting rifle I prefer the fixed stocks. I'm tired of getting my moustache and beard caught in the stock. So, what I was going to do was put a medium weight 16" on a flattop upper with a free floating forend and put it on my flattop rifle.

So, when Remington announced the R-15, especially the 18" carbine version, and that it was camo dipped, I held off building an upper.

I'm glad I did, because the R-15 carbine is almost exactly what I'm looking for. It's light, being just a bit heavier than the XM177E2. It's 18" barrel is a good compromise between a 16" and a 20". It has a short forend, trimming weight. I liked how it balanced and handled. I said "almost" exactly what I want. I would like a slightly heavier barrel, but this isn't a varmint rifle that will be shot until the barrel is smoking. It has a 1 in 9" twist. I prefer a 1 in 12" for hunting, but, 1 in 9" from experience will work with fragile jacketed varmint bullets. (Interesting that the R-15 is 1 in 9", while the real maker, Bushmaster, uses a 1 in 8" on their version.)

Note that the R-15 barrel from the bobbed sight tower to the muzzle is fluted. This is not readily apparent from the photos on the Remington website. I didn't realize it was fluted until I actually saw the gun.

And for those who absolutely must have an M4 stock, the 18" R-15 carbine will be offered with one:


Speaking of the Bushmaster, my dealer also had their camo Predator model with a 20" free floated heavy barrel. I compared it to the R-15.


Rem R-15 20" rifle


Bushmaster - Product Catalog - Hunting Rifles

The Bushmaster Predator felt like my Bushmaster heavy barrel, though mine is a bit heavier. But they balance similarly. My dealer did not have an R-15 rifle version, but it's almost the same as the Bushmaster, except for the barrel diameter, slight weight difference, and how the free floating forend has its vents slotted. The Bushmaster Predator weighs 1/4 lb less than the R-15 rifle (8 lbs vs 7-3/4). The difference is the barrel diameter under the forend. This told me that the R-15 rifle was not what I was looking for. (The R-15 carbine weighs 6-3/4 lbs.) Interestingly, there is a substantial difference in price. The Bushmaster Predator was priced about $250 more than the R-15.

As I said, I'm looking for a coyote rifle first and foremost. Would the R-15 make a good tactical/defense rifle? Sure, though whether camo is needed outside of coyote hunting is debatable (some don't think it's needed for coyote hunting either - but I think it helps for the well educated coyotes). But if I was wanting a rifle for tactical games, I'd want a somewhat heavier barrel considering how much ammo will be fired in a short time.

Trigger pull. I was drooling so much that I plumb forgot to try the trigger pull. Bushmaster says they have a two-stage competition trigger (3.5 lbs takeup, 1 lb let-off). I suspect this is their DCM trigger. If so, that would help account for why the Bushmaster Predator costs more than the R-15. Remington says they have a "clean-breaking single stage trigger".

The camo finish on both rifles was nicely done. It's actually a little darker than what is shown in the pictures. Both Rem and Bushmaster are using Realtree Max-1 camo.

The "hard case" that comes with the R-15 comes with is a pretty darn tight fit if optics are mounted. Some scopes are not going to fit in the case. I suspect the locking case was there more to help owners legally take their rifles home in some states, when locked.

Anyway, I liked the R-15 enough that I put it on layway. My son Sean is doing his welding certifications right now, and any welder can tell you those cert tests aren't cheap, so my discretionary funds didn't allow me to bring it home yet. Plans are to transfer my EOTech 552 onto it. Ultimately I'd like to put a low powered scope on it with an illuminated reticle, like the Leopold 1.5-5x. I've used higher powered scopes for coyote hunting, and feel they are limited to use in wide open country from a rest. At that point I'll go to a 22-250 or 25-06.

BTW, if you want my opinion between the Bushmaster Predator and the Remington R-15 20" rifle versions, the difference is 1/4 lb weight, 1" difference in twist rate, the trigger, and the cost. I'd use the 20" model as a varmint rifle, not a dedicated coyote rifle. So the heavier barrel on the Bushmaster is a plus. The trigger is a plus too, but one could always be retrofitted to the R-15. I prefer a slower twist rate, and would prefer that Bushmaster did not use a 1 in 8". (I don't know if a different twist could be special ordered.) Also note that the Bushmaster Varminter wih a 24" barrel is now available in camo. (The stainless barrel version is not at this time.)

[FJ40 MNTCRZR]

Very nice, can't grill'em til ya kill'em ..

[Fly Rod]

Good write up Brian. Another thing to look at is the BCG. My understanding is that the Remington is not cromed. I could not take the one I checked out apart. The salesman thought that was a bad idea. The Bushy BCG is cromed.

The Predator saves weight by fluting under the hand guard. Where as the Remington flutes past the hand guard only.

The Remington trigger was unimpressive. The Bushy trigger can be very nice, but. I am still trying to figure out how to smooth mine out. The first stage is sticky, the second stage is nice and sharp.

[Brian in Oregon]

Fly Rod, actually, the Bushmaster barrel on this model is NOT chromed. This from their website:

"The 20" Bushmaster Barrel is fluted 4150 ChroMoly Vanadium Steel (non- chrome lined) with sharp 1 x 8” twist rifling for the heavier bullets typically used on bigger varmints and predators."

I do not know if the Remington is chrome lined or not. It didn't occur to me to check. Frankly, for a hunting AR, I'd rather not have it chrome lined.

[Brian in Oregon]

Some more info has come to light:

The Bushmaster bolt is chromed inside. The Remington bolt is not.

The R-15 rifle was initially supposed to have a 20" barrel. Remington's website now shows it as having a 22" barrel. I missed this change. This places this model halfway between the Bushmaster Predator (20") and their Varminter (24").

I've read that the Remington does not have a chrome lined barrel either, but nothing official on this.

The Bushmaster barrel is fluted under the handguard. The Remington is not.

[sprocket3]

Very nice unit. That should be the death of the local yotes...

I have a CZ 529 Varmint gun with the 1/9 twist .223. It will work well with all but the very light bullets. I found that with hand loads it seems to really like 55 grains.

I would avoid the real light ones under 50 grains though with that fast of a twist.

[Brian in Oregon]

I prefer 55 grainers, particularly the TNT bullets. I'm not fond of 40 grainers, mainly because of the wind and increased metal fouling of the bore from higher velocity.

[sprocket3]

i've got a bunch of differnt makes if you want a sample pack to test for best results and you hand load.

[Brian in Oregon]

Well, I've pretty much settled on one load, but it's an unknown for the R-15 at this point. I do plan to try a change in powder. Currently I'm using 760, which is generally considered a bit on the slow side for 223 when compared to 748. I like 760 because I also use it in 22-250 and thus it's a common powder. Plus it's a compressed load. But I may switch to 748 for a little more velocity, provided groups don't open up. My 760 loads work in everything from a .223 semi-auto handgun to various AR15s to a 223 AK47 clone to a Browning 1885 Single Shot rifle. It's a universal load, and it's friendly to both commercial and military brass.

[Landpimp]

Remington bought Bushmaster not long ago, so this is really a Bushmaster correct?

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by Landpimp

Remington bought Bushmaster not long ago, so this is really a Bushmaster correct?

Yes it is a Bushmaster with some cost savings...

Brian,

True the Bushy does not have a crome lined barrel. I was referring to the bolt carrier group. Another cost savings on the barrel is MP testing. My understanding is that the Bushy is MP tested and the Remy is not.

Depending on the amount of shooting you do all of this probably adds up to a hill of beans.

IMHO, the trigger of both guns needs to be replaced with a high quality single stage for hunting. The cromed bcg will last and run longer with less maintenance. That really doesn't matter because I will wear it out cleaning it before shooting it out!

My biggest rant about the Remi is it is not black. I want to be able to throw a second uper on it and look coordinated.

[Brian in Oregon]

Remington did NOT buy Bushmaster.

The Cerberus group bought Remngton, Bushmaster and DPMS. They are all under the Cerberus aegis.

Yes, Bushmaster is making the Remington R-15. It is apparent that the R-15 is a less expensive version of the Bushmaster Predator rifle, with cost savings due to deletion of some features. However, the R-15 does have some features that the Bushmaster Predator rifle does not have. Like being made in a carbine version, and having a lighter barrel on all models.

It's interesting that Remington, under Cerberus, is marketing an AR15 gun. Speculation is that they are doing to in order to eventually use the Remington name to get military and law enforcement contracts. Something I've not heard anyone mention is that it might be possible they are doing this to get the AR15 into the mainstream with sportsmen, some of whom have derided it from ignorance, like Jim Zumbo. And boy, Remington dropped him like a hot potato. Really stupid statement and bad timing on Zumbo's part.

As for the trigger on the Bushmaster Predator, it is their National Match trigger. I like this trigger, and prefer it to single stage. But I'll hold off making changes until I field test the R-15 trigger. That's the nice thing about AR15's, you can customize them as you see fit.

I'm not worried about the lack of chrome lining inside the bolt. I have AR's that are very old, and have been "rode hard and put up wet", so to speak. There's nothing wrong with their non-chrome lined bolts. If there is a problem, a new bolt ain't gunna break the bank.

BTW, the Bushmaster Predator has a hybrid chamber that accepts both 223 and 5.56mm. The Remington only says 223, no mention of 5.56. Doesn't bother me, because this is a hunting gun and I won't be shooting military ammo in it. And I can segregate out my reloads into commercial and military, though both are resized to 223.