Kalifornia legality thread

[KliersLC]

So,

my brother lives down in the PRK, and has grand aspirations of owning (and modifying) an AK-47. The way I understand the law down there, as long as the gas system is rendered "permanently" inoperable, the weapon ceases to be semi-auto and is therefore released from magazine/folding stock/pistol grip restrictions. In this configuration, the weapon becomes a straight pull bolt action.

So, if one decided to put a full auto fire control group in a straight pull bolt action weapon, would it still be legal? The weapon is no more full auto than it was before due to the lack of a gas system, so the FCG really doesn't change the weapon at all....

Anyhow, opinions would be appreciated, I am just trying to keep him from getting in trouble.
Thanks!
Dan

[e9999]

IIANM, full-auto parts themselves (read the sear) are Federally-controlled parts -i.e. preempting all but even more restrictive state laws.
IOW, you could have a fullauto sear in your safe without any other gun parts in your possession and you would still be facing some time in the Fed pen if you don't have the proper paperwork. Doesn't matter if they are installed in a wooden mockup or even papier-mache one....

at least that's my recollection of things from some years back...

[phrogg4evr]

Originally Posted by e9999

IIANM, full-auto parts themselves (read the sear) are Federally-controlled parts -i.e. preempting all but even more restrictive state laws.
IOW, you could have a fullauto sear in your safe without any other gun parts in your possession and you would still be facing some time in the Fed pen if you don't have the proper paperwork. Doesn't matter if they are installed in a wooden mockup or even papier-mache one....
at least that's my recollection of things from some years back...

x2 That's a big Federal ATF law no-no. Good, quality jail time with Bubba forthcoming from doing that.

IT would be considered a Title 2 weapon as per the National Firearms Act, ir the 1968 Gun Control Act.

What are title 2 weapons might you ask?

NFA weapons are: machine guns, sound suppressors (a.k.a. silencers), short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles, destructive devices and "any other weapons".

Here's a snip on even owning just the parts, like your bro wants to try

In addition, as a general rule, a parts kit, i.e. all of the parts to assemble an NFA firearm, whether a parts kit is specifically included in the statute or not, is usually considered to be the same as the assembled firearm.

Here's ,a snip of the punishment portion of the NFA if he gets caught

A conviction for a violation of the NFA will result in a felony conviction, punishable by up to ten years in prison, and/or a $10,000 fine. See 26 U.S.C. sec. 5871. The U.S. Sentencing Guidelines ordinarily require prison time, even for a first offense with no prior criminal record, however various mitigating and aggravating factors can raise or lower the possible sentence range for a first offense.

And that's just federal law, I'm sure Kaliforniastan has something to go along with it once the feds are done with him.

Just to ask a stupid question, if the gas system is to be rendered inop, what would be the point of putting a full auto control group in there in the first place?

That is, aside from the future consideration to break Federal law and covert it back to full auto at a later date.

You need to have a little talk to your brother there Marine

[Fly Rod]

I just read up on this subject in relation to my ar15. There are auto parts that can improve the function of a semi gun. Technically I could put an full auto BCG in my AR and not go to jail. The problem is if the feds want to confiscate my gun for testing they can. They can also test it any way and as much as they want. If during that time it double taps after a few thousand rounds, which happens, I would be screwed. That is regardless of whether it was a malfunction unrelated to the BCG.

So it is not illegal to own individual auto parts. But, if you own a receiver and a parts kit it is treated as intent and subject to jail time. Do not own a receiver and auto parts kit!

[KliersLC]

This parts kit from falcon arms states that it is legal to ship/own it anywhere in the states. His thinking is that the parts kit is just extra parts for his PAR-1, as long as the PAR-1 is assembled there wouldn't seem to be any intent to install the FCG. Also, if the gas system is disabled, there are no restrictions on it.....I think.

Anyhow, thanks for the input, keep it coming.

Falcon Arms :: AK-47 :: AK-47 Romanian Parts Set with Matching Numbers.

[phrogg4evr]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

I just read up on this subject in relation to my ar15. There are auto parts that can improve the function of a semi gun. Technically I could put an full auto BCG in my AR and not go to jail. The problem is if the feds want to confiscate my gun for testing they can. They can also test it any way and as much as they want. If during that time it double taps after a few thousand rounds, which happens, I would be screwed. That is regardless of whether it was a malfunction unrelated to the BCG.

So it is not illegal to own individual auto parts. But, if you own a receiver and a parts kit it is treated as intent and subject to jail time. Do not own a receiver and auto parts kit!

If by BCG, you mean bolt carrier group, that is not part of the fire control group. Shoot, I have the full auto bolt carrier in my M4, and in no way will it change the Title 1/Title 2 status of your AR.

When you get into the hammer, sear, trigger, etc... that are full aotu parts kits, that is where you get into the realm of Title 2 firearms

KliersLC, it looks like, while it is a complete full auto parts kit, it also states: "All Federal local and NFA rules applying to manufacture of parts sets into working weapons. These have been cut as per the BATF specification." which means that they have been modified by the retailer to meet the legality standards of the ATF are no longer "full auto"

So, no legality issues, no full auto, but will bring your bro's AK up to original specifications

[Pin_Head]

The other problem he might run into is the "readily converted" definition of a MG. If a firearm can be "readily converted" to full auto, it is a no no. A problem is that "readily converted" is not defined and the CA supreme court has recently upheld a decision where welding, drilling and machining were needed to covert a semi as "readily" convertible. With a little welding, drilling and machining you can convert virtually any semi into a MG. If you have select fire FC parts installed, this could enhance the interpretation of your intent to make a MG. The chances of them coming after you for something like that are slim, but if they wanted to stick it to you for some reason, this may be an easy way to do it.

[Landpimp]

just get a Nerf gun, think those are legal but only if single shot

[KliersLC]

Originally Posted by phrogg4evr

KliersLC, it looks like, while it is a complete full auto parts kit, it also states: "All Federal local and NFA rules applying to manufacture of parts sets into working weapons. These have been cut as per the BATF specification." which means that they have been modified by the retailer to meet the legality standards of the ATF are no longer "full auto"

So, no legality issues, no full auto, but will bring your bro's AK up to original specifications

The receiver is cut, but all of the other bits are there. Similar to a lower receiver on an AR--if the Lower has been made a "non firearm" then you can have all the rest of the bits legally. Anyhow, I am still curious about the legality of installing the full auto trigger group in conjunction with disabling the gas system permanently.

Anyhow,
thanks for the help!
Dan

[KliersLC]

Originally Posted by Landpimp

just get a Nerf gun, think those are legal but only if single shot

and no pistol grip

[phrogg4evr]

Originally Posted by KliersLC

The receiver is cut, but all of the other bits are there. Similar to a lower receiver on an AR--if the Lower has been made a "non firearm" then you can have all the rest of the bits legally. Anyhow, I am still curious about the legality of installing the full auto trigger group in conjunction with disabling the gas system permanently.

Anyhow,
thanks for the help!
Dan

The only weapons you can put no-shit full auto part on would be a registered NFA weapon. Anything other than that, you'll be taking your freedom in your own hands. There are some grey areas such as with what your brother is trying to do, but go to your local Class II or Class III dealer, they can school you on the legality of it

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by KliersLC

The receiver is cut, but all of the other bits are there. Similar to a lower receiver on an AR--if the Lower has been made a "non firearm" then you can have all the rest of the bits legally. Anyhow, I am still curious about the legality of installing the full auto trigger group in conjunction with disabling the gas system permanently.

Anyhow,
thanks for the help!
Dan

The important thing is the operating system is irrelevant. The reciever is the regulated part. If you own a reciever and a select fire fcg you are going to jail. It really doesn't matter if it is imposible to make your gun full auto. Just the combination of a reciever and select fire fcg, with no other parts equals federal pen time. Even if the receiver has been made a "non firearm" the current gun hating political environment could make your life miserable if it so chooses. Because you could always reverse the modification, true or not.