Advice on poaching/trespassing

[Cuerno Largo]

I figure this might be the place to post this since in a way it has to do with access to land for hunting/fishing. If not, please move it to chat as it is a bit of a rant. I just want to understand where people's thoughts are on this subject.

I have about 300 acres of land. Much of it is wooded. I have 3 ponds. One is 5 acres, one is one acre, and the other is about 2 acres. They are all stocked with fish.

Over the past 3 years, I have caught at least 3 groups of trespassers a year fishing on my ponds. I'm sure there are many more I am not catching. Today I caught another group.

Initially I told each group that they were not allowed to fish on the property without my permission. Nobody ever called to ask for permission except for 2 people. I have let them fish because they call and ask.

Then, about one year ago, someone tore up a game camera on my property.

Now for the past year I have been pissed and am getting more pissed with each group I find. The group today was 4 persons. One was in his late 20's with the others being children ranging from about 7 to 14.

Each time I have caught people, they have been respectful to me. (might be the unconcealed pistol on me). As I was escorting them to the gate, I was talking to the oldest. Apparently he was in prison for the past 10 years for car theft and since he fished the property 10 years ago, he figured he could just pick back up where he left off, and bring his son (the youngest).

Why the hell do people think they can just come on a property and poach?

So far I have been nice and tell each party I find that they need to let everyone in the area know that the property is off limits.

I don't want to be an ass to some guy with kids, but I am thinking I need to start pressing charges to get this shit to stop. One of my friends is a game warden and it would be pretty easy to do.

My only concern is that of retaliation. It is out in the country, so nothing is anonymous. It is obvious where I live. Part of the property is a pine tree farm. My fear is that someone could really screw me with a single match. Big investment up in flames.

What do y'all think. Next person gets charges pressed against them, or keep the current education process?

[brew8]

Get their license numbers call the fish and game department tell them you caught them and they will call them up and cite them for tresspass, in Montana about 150 bucks, don't ask how I know, Cheers, Larry

[phatairman]

No pun intended but if you start arresting people, especially people that spent the last ten years in jail, you might get burned in the long run.

Is the property posted? If not, I would heavily post it.

[Cruiserdrew]

Kill them, and bury them on the property.



Actually, if your land is posted, call the sheriff. They are trespassing, and breaking the law.

[inthewall]

Post signs everywhere. Call the cops on trespassers. Trespassers will be shot usually works. Or trespassers will be violated Also if you can fence and lock the place up, I'd do it.

[Darwood]

Boy does Texas need more public land. Where is this and is it posted?

[phrogg4evr]

Originally Posted by Cruiserdrew

Kill them, and bury them on the property.

"You're always gonna have problems lifting a body in one piece.
Apparently, the best thing to do is cut up a corpse into six pieces and pile it all together.
And when you got your six pieces, you gotta get rid of them.
Cause it's no good leaving it in the freezer for your mum to discover, now is it?

Then I hear the best thing to do is feed them to pigs.
You gotta starve the pigs for a few days, then the sight of a chopped-up body will look like curry to a pisshead.
You gotta shave the heads of your victims and pull the teeth out, for the sake of the piggies' digestion.
You could do this afterwards, of course, but you don't want to go sieving through pigshit, now do yah?

They will go through bone like butter.
You need at least sixteen pigs to finish the job in one sitting...
...so be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm.
They will go through a body that weighs two hundred pounds in about eight minutes.
That means that a single pig can consume two pounds of uncooked flesh every minute.

Hence the expression... ..."as greedy... as... a pig".

[Bogo]

Originally Posted by Cruiserdrew

Actually, if your land is posted, call the sheriff. They are trespassing, and breaking the law.

Originally Posted by inthewall

Post signs everywhere. Call the cops on trespassers.

Standard multi-lingual no trespassing, hunting and fishing signs is all that is needed.Place them at each gate, and every so often along the fence lines.

[BG_TX]

This won't help your delima, but where in TX are you? I love fishing private ponds for bass (catch/release) with permission of course.

Best place to try new techniques/lures are private ponds that hold bass and do not receive a lot of fishing pressure.

Too bad 'booby traps' are illegal... that could be fun!

[flintknapper]

Do as you wish...but I advise "post your property" and the bust their asses!

It is the ONLY effective way to get the word out. Apparently you do not live upon the property...and can not check it very often.

You may be sure that if you are catching certain groups of people....that your property is being heavily used.

We had the same problem here for awhile. Word gets out quick when you put "some teeth" into your previous "warnings". No more Mr. Nice Guy!

Heres the law, use it:

Criminal Trespass

Under Texas Penal Code § 30.05 (see below), the definition of criminal trespass is more complex than the simple notion of being on someone else’s land. One way to commit the offense is to enter upon another’s property even though one has notice that the entry is forbidden. Another way is to remain on another’s property, refusing to leave after receiving notice to depart.

Notice can be given in any one of five forms. First, it can be an oral or written communication by the owner or someone acting for the owner. Second, it can be a fence or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock.
Third, notice can be in the form of sign(s) posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to be noticed, indicating that entry is forbidden. Fourth, notice can be in the form of readily visible purple paint marks of proper size and placement on trees or posts spaced no more than 100 feet apart on forest land or 1,000 feet apart on non-forest land. Fifth, notice can be the visible presence on the property of a crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time of entry.

Criminal trespass is normally a Class B misdemeanor with a fine up to $2,000 and a jail term up to 180 days. If the trespass is on agricultural land, and the trespasser is apprehended within 100 feet of the boundary of the land, the offense is a Class C misdemeanor with a fine up to $500. Agricultural land is broadly defined and includes land suitable for growing plants (for food, feed, fiber, seed, etc.) or trees or for keeping farm or ranch animals. However, under certain conditions including if one has a deadly weapon on or about one’s person the offense is a Class A misdemeanor with a fine up to $4,000 and a jail term up to one year.
________________________________________
State Law
Penal Code § 30.05. Criminal Trespass.
(a) A person commits an offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or he enters or remains in a building of another without effective consent and he:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) “Entry” means the intrusion of the entire body.
(2) “Notice” means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;
(D) the placement of identifying purple paint marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks are:
(i) vertical lines of not less than eight inches in length and not less than one inch in width;
(ii) placed so that the bottom of the mark is not less than three feet from the ground or more than five feet from the ground; and
(iii) placed at locations that are readily visible to any person approaching the property and no more than:
(a) 100 feet apart on forest land; or
(b) 1,000 feet apart on land other than forest land; or
(E) the visible presence on the property of a crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time of entry.
(3) “Shelter center” has the meaning assigned by Section 51.002(1), Human Resources Code.
(4) “Forest land” means land on which the trees are potentially valuable for timber products.
(5) “Agricultural land” has the meaning assigned by Section 75.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code.
(6) “Superfund site” means a facility that:
(A) is on the National Priorities List established under Section 105 of the federal Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act of 1980 (42 U.S.C. Section 9605); or
(B) is listed on the state registry established under Section 361.181, Health and Safety Code.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor at the time of the offense was a fire fighter or emergency medical services personnel, as that term is defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code, acting in the lawful discharge of an official duty under exigent circumstances.
(d) An offense under Subsection (e) is a Class C misdemeanor unless it is committed in a habitation or unless the actor carries a deadly weapon on or about the actor’s person during the commission of the offense, in which event it is a Class A misdemeanor. An offense under Subsection (a) is a Class B misdemeanor, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if:
(1) the offense is committed:
(A) in a habitation or a shelter center; or
(B) on a Superfund site; or
(2) the actor carries a deadly weapon on or about his person during the commission of the offense.
(e) A person commits an offense if without express consent or if without authorization provided by any law, whether in writing or other form, the person:
(1) enters or remains on agricultural land of another;
(2) is on the agricultural land and within 100 feet of the boundary of the land when apprehended; and
(3) had notice that the entry was forbidden or received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying a concealed handgun and a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category the person was carrying.

[Cuerno Largo]

The land is posted. Gate has a lock on it. Barbed wire fence. There is a sign up front stating that it is a certified tree farm. I guess I will go get the purple paint and put it on the posts just so there can be absolutely no argument.

One of the main problems I am dealing with is that I have had the property for about 8 years, but prior to that the owner that had it for 40 years let people on to fish. I am in Northeast Texas and near a relatively backwoods community that seems to think that because their dad grew up fishing the pond, they have a right to access it without permission.

It seems the consensus is to start pressing charges.

[Cuerno Largo]

Originally Posted by BG_TX

This won't help your delima, but where in TX are you? I love fishing private ponds for bass (catch/release) with permission of course.

Best place to try new techniques/lures are private ponds that hold bass and do not receive a lot of fishing pressure.

Too bad 'booby traps' are illegal... that could be fun!

I'm in East Texas. The bass fishing is good which is why people want to poach. It is fun to be able to take the kids out to the ponds and pretty much guarantee they will catch something.

[Cuerno Largo]

Originally Posted by flintknapper

Do as you wish...but I advise "post your property" and the bust their asses!

It is the ONLY effective way to get the word out. Apparently you do not live upon the property...and can not check it very often.

I live on the property, but basically on the opposite side of where the trespassing is occuring. Pretty easy to go un-noticed with all of the trees. The only way I have caught people is to happen upon them when I am out, or in this latest case, they parked out on the road near the gate of my property and my neighbor called me to give me a heads up.

[cajun65]

Do you have signs around the lake? I'd put some there too.

[blueticker17]

Kill off all the fish.

No really, I would press charges. You paid for the property. YOu are paying taxes. It is yours. BTW I as a hunter appreciate the fact that you will allow those who are courtious enough to ask to use YOUR facilities.

Call the warden.

[smkymntn]

I live in a very rural area and anyone who drives up near us has every neighbor out of the house. Needless to say as you go onto our dirt road there are signs that my brother in law put up that say" trespassers will be shot and survivors will be shot again" he has his dogs (german shepards) running all over and anytime someone mistakenly goes by they turn around with the quickness. So my rambling basically says put up lots of signage and make sure the signs portray your seriousness in dealing with trespassers. HTH

[sixty]

In my opinion, pressing charges on first offenders encourages retaliation. I think the best way would be to have the sheriff come out and give them a warning that if they return they will be cited, far less chance of retaliation.

[flintknapper]

Originally Posted by sixty

In my opinion, pressing charges on first offenders encourages retaliation. I think the best way would be to have the sheriff come out and give them a warning that if they return they will be cited, far less chance of retaliation.

Dead wrong!

We have tried both ways. Being nice about it DOES NOT WORK.

Fenced property, signs, painted trees, and general knowledge are "warning" enough. Anyone too stupid or bold to ignore those gets taken to task FIRST TIME.

I live in basically the same part of Texas....and the good 'ol days of hunt and fish where ever you want to... are long gone. People need to grasp this....and I am more than willing to help them learn the lesson.

It doesn't take long for the word to get out, and we have suffered no retaliation.

Besides, just let one of those trespassing bastards get hurt on your property...and see what happens. Incredibly...they will try to sue you.

No Sir, we show them we mean business....and except for an occasional lost deer hunter...we don't have the problem any more.

Texas is not like a lot of other states where there is plenty of public land. Literally 90+ percent of the land is privately owned. It has been this way for generations....so it's not too damn hard for someone (who is not on their own land) to figure out that they are on someones else's and probably trespassing.

Trespassing is BS, and is not tolerated around here.

[shep]

Flintknapper hits it on the nose. Post it and press charges every time it happens and it will eventually stop. It shouldn't be tolerated. You work hard for what you have invested in a spread and a lot of people today don't respect that. It is very generous of you to allow people to fish with permission. A lot of people here used to do that too but it is getting harder due to property damage, etc.

[webelk6]

In Wi trespassing w/o permission carries a hefty fine. Not to mention the fact our DNR has more power than the FBI. Maybe look at the possibility of the next neighbor keeping an eye out as well. good luck.

[Cuerno Largo]

Well today I posted around the ponds as an added notification to the signs posted on the gates.




I also used the purple paint on all the gate posts, h brace posts, and on the T posts every 100 feet.

Next group gets charges against them.

[Boone]

I dont have a problem with anyone pressing charges when somone trespasses and i understand it, i'm just posting this to ask a question.

I am younger (21) i have heard my dad talk about when he was younger him and his friends could basicly go fishing and camping and stuff where ever they want just as long as they were respectful to the land. I personally love to fish, love to camp and generally enjoy the out doors. Ifi am ever on someone elses land either with permission or without (which would be by mistake because of situations like this) i am very respectful to that land. i would not keep fish, i would not deface property and i would not leave any kind of trace when camping. I'm just curious what the generation that my father is in, who spent their days and nights out in the woods without having to check every tree for a posted sign, who got to enjoy the out doors to the fullest and for the most part are the people who are now landowners, are worried about. is it just the disrespectful people? is it everyone, is it a matter of principle, is it just to have that feeling that you posses something and controll it?

I am like i said very respectful to the land because i want my children to enjoy it as much as i have, and i feel that many people are just like me. I just wish that there were more places that i had to enjoy the out doors.

I AM BY NO MEANS ACCUSING CUERNO OR ANYONE ELSE FOR ANYTHING. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE A FEW BAD APPLES THAT RUIN THINGS FOR EVERYONE. I AM SIMPLY LOOKING FOR SOME INSIGHT ON THIS SUBJECT.

[D'Animal]

We had the same problem in Iowa on our 126 Acre farm with two ponds. One pond was 3 acres and one was 4 acres.

We found that if we turned people in, our property was destroyed in the future. The gates are rammed, fences cut, etc.

After replacing a few gates and fence posts, I took the different approach.

Remember those people you did give permission to fish on your land? "Deputize" them and let them know that if they want to continue fishing they have to keep everybody else off your land. Give them permission to be on you land in writting. When they catch someone, they call the sheriff. It leaves you out of it, you have two other people picking up the trash and keeping an eye on your ponds.

It worked for us.

[FJ40_owner]

Originally Posted by Boone

I dont have a problem with anyone pressing charges when somone trespasses and i understand it, i'm just posting this to ask a question.

I am younger (21) i have heard my dad talk about when he was younger him and his friends could basicly go fishing and camping and stuff where ever they want just as long as they were respectful to the land. I personally love to fish, love to camp and generally enjoy the out doors. Ifi am ever on someone elses land either with permission or without (which would be by mistake because of situations like this) i am very respectful to that land. i would not keep fish, i would not deface property and i would not leave any kind of trace when camping. I'm just curious what the generation that my father is in, who spent their days and nights out in the woods without having to check every tree for a posted sign, who got to enjoy the out doors to the fullest and for the most part are the people who are now landowners, are worried about. is it just the disrespectful people? is it everyone, is it a matter of principle, is it just to have that feeling that you posses something and controll it?

I am like i said very respectful to the land because i want my children to enjoy it as much as i have, and i feel that many people are just like me. I just wish that there