Beginner deer/elk rifle?

[johnbill]

Dare I ask such an open-ended question?

After many gunless years it's time to get back in the game. As a kid I used to shoot a fair bit of target muzzleloader and trap, but have not hunted much since selling my shotgun and .22 in 03 for college money. (And I ended up dropping out!) Anyhow, a couple of nice pheasant trips this year and last, and I've got the itch bad again. I'd like to buy one shotgun and one rifle over the summer in order to get my skills back up before fall. Shotgun I'm set on, but I'd like to solicit some opinions on the rifle.

Being a resident of N. Colorado, I think it might be wise to go for something that could be used for both deer and elk...lots of opportunity for both around here. 30-.06 is of course tempting for its availability in every Wal-Mart, corner store, and truck stop in the West, but I hear good things about .300 WSM and the like as far as flat trajectory goes. It's been so long since I pulled a trigger, and even longer since I bought a gun, that I'm totally afloat. Thoughts?


I swear, one of these days I'll actually start GIVING advice on this forum.

[inthewall]

Thompson Encore. One barrel for deer one barrel for elk and maybe another one for varmints.

[Bikerso]

I would vote for a rifle in 7mm. I have been hunting with this caliber for almost 20 years--great flat shooting caliber that wont break your shoulder. 300 can tend to make you a little jumpy after firing a few rounds. I have killed animals from the size of badgers all the way up to moose. This is a good caliber to start with.

[bigndn]

Originally Posted by Bikerso

I would vote for a rifle in 7mm. I have been hunting with this caliber for almost 20 years--great flat shooting caliber that wont break your shoulder. 300 can tend to make you a little jumpy after firing a few rounds. I have killed animals from the size of badgers all the way up to moose. This is a good caliber to start with.

Agreed. 7mm Rem Mag. Great all around caliber.

[Colorado Boy-74-FJ40]

30-06. Your best all around rifle by far! . I've killed 15 Elk, 14 Mule deer, Two Alaskan Moose and a black bear all with the same rifle. I use a straight 4 power scope on mine. A lot of guys use variables. For the elk and deer I use a 185 grain speer bullet and for the moose I used a 220 grain Hornady.

[2damslow]

I'd have to second the 30/06. I have a model 70 winchester with the 4 power widefield that will dump anything.
The 06 was good even before the performance bullets came out. Now with the new generation homogenous projectiles and core-bond-locked bullets designed to hold together, teh 06 is ready to go another hundred.

The cool thing about the 06 is that it's also about the biggest powder charge you can stuff behind the .30 caliber bullet without ever worrying about throat erosion.

The biggest problem with the 06 is that factories load the ammo down. They have to load it light to keep all those old clunker guns from blowing apart, so if you really want to squeak out the last bit of performance from your 06 you need to buy premium ammo. $$$$$$

[Fly Rod]

You can't go wrong with either the '06 or the 7mm Mag. I would avoid the 300 wsm only because the added expense and recoil will not help you shoot more often. Yes the 300 might get you another 100 yards on the extreme of ITS' effective range. But that effective range is much longer than most people can shoot effectively without alot of effective practice.

[BeefBarley]

i know where you can find a .270 whby mag.....

[Atoyot1031]

x1,000,000 on the 30-06. Do you drive 60MPH or 100KmPH? So why go metric with a rifle!

[CJF]

Originally Posted by johnbill

Shotgun I'm set on.

Do tell...

[CJF]

Originally Posted by Atoyot1031

x1,000,000 on the 30-06. Do you drive 60MPH or 100KmPH?

Do you use SAE or metric wrenches on your Cruiser?

[harper68]

I use a 270win with 130 grain bullet a flatter shooting rifle then a 30cal. Really personal preference but I have shot my fair share of cow elk with mine with no issues and ammo is just as easy to find.

[rockrash]

.264 win,.270,.270 wthby mag.These are all great calibers for what you want. Have an old friend has hunted everything and for deer and elk in Montana for years and he swears by the .264 win mag. The .270win and the .270 wthby mag I had seen at the walmarts here before they quit selling guns at the walmarts here. These three are not shoulder breakers either.

[BeefBarley]

Originally Posted by rockrash

.264 win,.270,.270 wthby mag.These are all great calibers for what you want. Have an old friend has hunted everything and for deer and elk in Montana for years and he swears by the .264 win mag. The .270win and the .270 wthby mag I had seen at the walmarts here before they quit selling guns at the walmarts here. These three are not shoulder breakers either.

you are saying that a .270 wthby mag is not a shoulder breaker??? I dare you to shoot a box with a BOSS

[lunyou]

another vote foir the 30-06 which is the best most complete rifle ever built. Not too big for deer, not to small for elk and heck you can even use it for Moose if you are a good shot.

They make a nice "controlled recoil" round for the 06 that cuts the recoil down to hardly anything and is still plenty powerful for deer.

The 7mm Mag is another popular choice but IMHO it is a little too big for whitetail deer but since you are in CO you probably hunt more Muley's, correct? I have heard many stories by people who are avid hunters, who buy the 7mm Mag and hate it due to the recoil behind it.

good luck on your decision.

lunyou

[lunyou]

about the .270 Win........I love mine for deer, never let me down.........but I wouldn't advise it for elk, unless you want to shoot the 150 grain bullets. The .270 is a very fast load and is utilized the best by the 130-140 grain bullets that are available in many different types(hollow points, Pointed soft points, soft points, ballistic tips, JHP, etc). The 150 grain bullets are limited(as far as I have seen) to Soft points. I have also came across ONE brand of ammo that sold 180 grain .270 cartridges, dunno about them.

Never shot a .270 Wthby Mag so I can't comment on that round.

Another consideration might be a .270 WSM. They are becoming quite popular and I have shot one of those. They are vicious when I comes to whitetail deer, maybe a bit of over kill, but I would imagine they are one heck of a elk gun.

lunyou

[bigndn]

Originally Posted by lunyou

I have heard many stories by people who are avid hunters, who buy the 7mm Mag and hate it due to the recoil behind it.

good luck on your decision.

lunyou

If you buy one and the recoil is too much for you, have it ported. HUGE difference in felt recoil and time to reacquire. This past season, I was back on my Colo muley I actually SAW the impact ripples from my first shot. I've never seen that before.

[lunyou]

Originally Posted by bigndn

If you buy one and the recoil is too much for you, have it ported. HUGE difference in felt recoil and time to reacquire. This past season, I was back on my Colo muley I actually SAW the impact ripples from my first shot. I've never seen that before.

but wasn't the question about a "beginners deer/elk rifle"?

I agree you can get all kinds of work done to guns to improve the comfort, accuracy, etc but that is not beginner stuffl that stuff costs a bit extra and most beginners want to grab a rifle out of the box that walmart, bass pro, cabelas, or a local gun shop handed then throw a decent enough scope on it, sight it in and go hunting. Heck I am not a beginner and I wouldn't even want to pay to have a rifle ported.

lunyou

[Spitpatch]

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought, "Oh, boy, here comes the .300 Magnum crowd."

Not the case at all. Pleased to see so many recommending the ol' '06. You can never go wrong there. I prefer the .270 Winchester as a "do-all" round, since its a bit more sensible for the wide range that would include Rockchucks to Moose.

As to modern bolt-action rifles, my preference is for the Remington 700's. No better for accuracy out of the box. Multiple configurations, finishes, stocks, etc. available.

Again, my compliments to the sensible majority here who know the hard truth that it is not what you hit 'em with, but where you hit 'em. Too many guys these days falling for the Magnum hype that is all the rage, along with the "gadgets get the game" crap that is so prevalent.

The big magnums have their place for the man who can shoot them well (alot fewer than say they can). Professional guides almost to a man will tell you they breathe a sigh of relief when their client shows up with a .30-06 or a .270. Clients that show up with the latest ".327 Cross Canyon Crippler" round are suspect as to their shooting skills and knowledge.

[johnbill]

Originally Posted by Bikerso

300 can tend to make you a little jumpy after firing a few rounds. I have killed animals from the size of badgers all the way up to moose. This is a good caliber to start with.

Yah. I got a buddy who is big on old military stuff, and he was suggesting I pull together $100, buy a Mosin-Nagant (7.62x54), and call it good. Fun to shoot, neat old rifle, but twenty rounds and I needed a break. Or maybe an arm sling. I hear the .300 packs a similar punch. Obviously not that bad for your one-shot and two-shot kills, but I want something I can plug a lot of rounds through this summer for practice.

Also, moose with a 30.06? DANG.

Originally Posted by Colorado Boy-74-FJ40

30-06. Your best all around rifle by far! . I've killed 15 Elk, 14 Mule deer, Two Alaskan Moose and a black bear all with the same rifle.

Again, DANG!!! Bear with a 30.06? I am way out of my league with you dudes...

Originally Posted by 2damslow

The biggest problem with the 06 is that factories load the ammo down. They have to load it light to keep all those old clunker guns from blowing apart, so if you really want to squeak out the last bit of performance from your 06 you need to buy premium ammo. $$$$$$

What are we talkin here, for the good stuff?

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

You can't go wrong with either the '06 or the 7mm Mag. I would avoid the 300 wsm only because the added expense and recoil will not help you shoot more often. Yes the 300 might get you another 100 yards on the extreme of ITS' effective range. But that effective range is much longer than most people can shoot effectively without alot of effective practice.

Yep. I'm no 400-yard shooter, and won't be for a long time.

Originally Posted by CJF

Do you use SAE or metric wrenches on your Cruiser?

Yeah, but I got a Chevy too...

(I smell a hijack coming on...)

Originally Posted by lunyou

The 7mm Mag is another popular choice but IMHO it is a little too big for whitetail deer but since you are in CO you probably hunt more Muley's, correct?

Yep. Whitetails wander through the Front Range once in a while, but they tend to hang out mostly in the eastern part of the state. I'll be hunting from the central-western part of the Wyo. border down to probably the Leadville area. All muleys, all the time. And horse-sized elk.

Originally Posted by lunyou

Heck I am not a beginner and I wouldn't even want to pay to have a rifle ported.

Thanks for backing me up, lunyou. Ummm... I don't even know what porting is.

Thanks much, fellas. More opinions welcomed.

Also, anybody have experience with Tikka rifles (Finnish)? I got a buddy who speaks highly of them and might be able to get me a nice new rifle/scope/accessories deal. Also might bite on a Model 70 if one comes around.

Oh, and CJF, I'm puttin all my pennies in a jar for my buddy's 12ga Benelli o/u. I always shot junky old d/b 12s and never had much use for fancy shotguns until a four day trip to Iowa for the last weekend of the 06-07 season. Just holding this shottie made me want to pet it a little bit. I was also hunting behind good dogs for the first time, which may have had something to do with it. I was filled with instant lust, and he's offered to hold onto it for me until I can get the scratch together.

[lunyou]

Hey JohnBill, Just go to a gun shop and buy a model 700 remington in a 30-06. They aren't exceptionally pricey. Or if you want one of the most accurate(and cost effective), out of the box, rifles made buy a Savage with the accutrigger. The accutrigger is easily adjustable by anyone that can read directions.....from a good heavy trigger to light enough you have to be super careful.

When I said kill a Moose I was really just talking about the versatility of the round..........I personally wouldn't go out moose hunting with an '06 but if had to kill one for some strange reason it can be done.

Check out remington.com for some simple ballistics chart comparing the .270, 30-06, 7mmMag.

lunyou

[bigndn]

Originally Posted by lunyou

but wasn't the question about a "beginners deer/elk rifle"?

I agree you can get all kinds of work done to guns to improve the comfort, accuracy, etc but that is not beginner stuffl that stuff costs a bit extra and most beginners want to grab a rifle out of the box that walmart, bass pro, cabelas, or a local gun shop handed then throw a decent enough scope on it, sight it in and go hunting. Heck I am not a beginner and I wouldn't even want to pay to have a rifle ported.

lunyou

You are absolutely correct, however, my point was that IF one chose a 7 mm mag due to the ballistics and ultimately didn't like the felt recoil, it's a fairly inexpensive mod to have it ported. I only had my 7 mag ported because I was having my .300 RUM done and they both needed trigger work. My gunsmith ported mine for $100 ea.

Originally Posted by Spitpatch

Pleased to see so many recommending the ol' '06. You can never go wrong there. I prefer the .270 Winchester as a "do-all" round, since its a bit more sensible for the wide range that would include Rockchucks to Moose.

As to modern bolt-action rifles, my preference is for the Remington 700's. No better for accuracy out of the box. Multiple configurations, finishes, stocks, etc. available.

The .30-06 is an incredibly versatile round, undoubtedly. I just had this same discussion with a good friend who's breaking into the hunting arena. Similarly, he was wanting a 'do all' rifle for deer/elk/moose/bear. I highly recommended eith the -06 or the 7 mm mag.

Ultimately, if you hunt the country where you can shoot greater distances and can get very familiar with your rifle, get a 7 mm mag. For shorter distance, the .30-06 is great, as is a .30-30.

I can't tell you how many times I've told newbs that it's not the size of your bullet, but where you can put them each time, every time to ensure a clean kill. Like you, sometimes I am amazed at the information available here. What a great forum!

[bigndn]

Originally Posted by johnbill

Also, moose with a 30.06? DANG.
Bear with a 30.06? I am way out of my league with you dudes...



Thanks for backing me up, lunyou. Ummm... I don't even know what porting is.

Also, anybody have experience with Tikka rifles (Finnish)? I got a buddy who speaks highly of them and might be able to get me a nice new rifle/scope/accessories deal. Also might bite on a Model 70 if one comes around.

Yes, moose and bear with a .30-06. No worries, get an appropriate grain bullet. Obviously you don't want to go shooting a moose at 350 yds with your 140 gr whitetail bullets or vice versa. I took my moose with an -06, 180 gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, gotta love it.

Porting is an art, to be done only by a qualified gunsmith. Simply put, porting is cutting a series of slots/drilling holes in a specific pattern, in order to release some of the gases in a controlled fashion. My gunsmith ported my rifles approx 15 degrees off TDC with several holes canted slightly back towards the shooter. The end result is that the gases escaping 'push' the muzzle both down and away from the shooter, thus resulting in less muzzle jump and felt recoil.

Tikkas are nice, in fact aren't they mfg by Sako? Either are very sweet and IIRC, there's a Tikka around $500 that's a 1 MOA shooter right out of the box. I don't remember the model right now, but swing into a gun dealer and talk to them.

[2damslow]

You can buy reduced recoil 30/06 loads for just over 20 bucks a box....
30/06 reduced recoil - Google Product Search

And you can get light magnum for about 30 bucks a box.

I reload my own for maybe 50 cents a round, and I've bought remington general purpose ammo for about 11 or 12 bucks a box.


I really like the 30 caliber projectile, but my bro drilled an elk with a 270 and the 160 grain projo went through the entire chest of the animal.
Today's modern projectiles make all rifles more effective than in days past.

One note on the Savage rifles. I had an old 110 bolt gun that was so accurate it was just sick! I was embarassed to admit how much I liked that rifle, because it was so low buck. It was like admitting that your preferred battle rifle is the SKS. Now my nephew owns it and has no intention of selling it back.