Can I shoot .30-30 out of my '94 .32 win spcl?

[nat]

So I scored a good deal on a(manuf. in 1955) Winchester 1894 chambered in .32 Winchester Special. The old fella said I could shoot .30-30 out of it also. It seems the two rounds use a similar case but I don't know if this is a good idea. Any thoughts on this?

[wob]

What Makes It Special?

[bigndn]

Originally Posted by nat

So I scored a good deal on a(manuf. in 1955) Winchester 1894 chambered in .32 Winchester Special. The old fella said I could shoot .30-30 out of it also. It seems the two rounds use a similar case but I don't know if this is a good idea. Any thoughts on this?

I know you can shoot .38's out of a .357, but not vice versa. A quick google search gave the following:

It is claimed that Winchester introduced the 32 WS, to provide a similar chambering that was more amenable to blackpowder loads. This cartridge, simply the 30-30 case necked up and chambered in a barrel with a significantly slower rifling twist (1/16 versus 1/12), works well with blackpowder.

What Makes It Special?

In other words, yes it should work just fine.

[wob]

Originally Posted by bigndn

I know you can shoot .38's out of a .357, but not vice versa. A quick google search gave the following:

It is claimed that Winchester introduced the 32 WS, to provide a similar chambering that was more amenable to blackpowder loads. This cartridge, simply the 30-30 case necked up and chambered in a barrel with a significantly slower rifling twist (1/16 versus 1/12), works well with blackpowder.

What Makes It Special?

In other words, yes it should work just fine.

lol

[bigndn]

Originally Posted by wob

lol

you suck, Will.



Here's more info, Nat!

A classic example, which comes to mind, is the 32 Special. This is long-since a dead issue but for many decades, even after Marlin and Winchester phased out this chambering a debate raged on, hot and heavy. Let us take a quick look at the history of these two cartridges.

Winchester co-introduced the 30-30 and the Model-94 in 1895. When John M. Browning designed this rifle, he intended it for use solely with blackpowder cartridges. All chamberings in his similarly designed predecessor to the '94, the Model-92, were blackpowder cartridges and he did not envision anything else for the '94, it was simply intended to handle longer cartridges.

In the late 1800's, developments in smokeless powder and metallurgy were moving at an unprecedented rate. Winchester realized they could take advantage of the huge safety factor of the '94 design by loading a cartridge with smokeless powder to about twice the pressure of similar blackpowder cartridges. Designers "invented" the 30-30 by necking down and improving the tapered 32-40 case to a nearly straight-sided bottleneck design.

I suspect they did this to prevent chambering of these newer - higher-pressure - smokeless-powder cartridges in blackpowder guns. As its common name implies, the 30-30 was a transition cartridge. Original loads used a charge of 30-grains of the available smokeless powder. These launched a 165-grain jacketed bullet at about 1950-fps. Although mundane today, in that era 1950 fps was spectacular velocity.

Soon thereafter, Winchester introduced the 32 Special. Considerable nonsense has since been printed, concerning the reasons behind Winchester's development of the 32 Special. This story reflects an oft-repeated theme in the firearms field: Someone says it, someone hears it, that person repeats it, another person hears it and then writes it, someone prints it, someone reads it and viola, it's a fact.

The old story of the 32 Special goes like this: Winchester wanted to offer customers a cartridge that was similar to the 30-30 but one that could be loaded successfully with blackpowder. According to this story, people had been trying to load blackpowder in the 30-30 but powder fouling in the 1/12-inch twist was a serious problem. By enlarging the mouth of the 30-30 cartridge to hold a 0.321-inch bullet and using a 1/16-inch twist in the bigger bore, Winchester solved this problems. The combination of slower twist and bigger bore substantially mitigated blackpowder fouling and the 32 Special was the cat's meow for blackpowder handloads.

Total nonsense! In the first place, the very idea that Winchester had any desire to cater to handloaders, particularly in that era, is ludicrous. The last thing any cartridge manufacturer wanted to do was to offer shooters any encouragement toward use of non-factory ammunition, especially with all the misunderstanding that existed about the correct usage of smokeless powder in that era!

No doubt, people had been trying blackpowder loads in the 30-30 but so what? The strictly blackpowder 32-40 version of the same rifle had always been available and was sold for considerably less than the nickel-steel 30-30; someone who intended to use blackpowder should have and most likely would have bought a 32-40 chambered rifle.

While Winchester did advertise that the 32 Special could successfully be handloaded with blackpowder, that is not the same thing as claiming it was invented for that purpose. I know of no factual basis for the aforementioned claim that the 32 Special was created so folks could handload with blackpowder in the '94, further, there is no logical basis to support it.

Why then, did Winchester invent the 32 Special? Well that might be a tough one to answer except that they told us in their advertising of the era. In their 1916 catalogue, they are quite specific, "The .32 Winchester Special cartridge, which we have perfected, is offered to meet the demand of many sportsmen for a smokeless powder cartridge of larger caliber than the .30 Winchester [original name for the 30-30] and yet not so powerful as the .30 Army [now known as the 30-40 Krag]."

According to Winchester, the 32 Special offered ballistics right between those two, then popular, loadings and was significantly superior to the 30-30, which was quite true. Some who should know better have claimed that the 32 Special and 30-30 are ballistic twins but this is nonsense.

Many things contribute to superior potential performance in the 32 Special. It has an 8.6% larger bore, this means there is more bullet base upon which propellant gasses can push. It has about 4% greater usable case capacity, the equal-weight 0.321" bullet, when loaded to the same overall length, does not enter the case as far and overall cartridge length is longer. The slower rifling rate imparts only about one-half the energy to the rotating bullet. These factors all contribute to increased muzzle energy when the two numbers are loaded to the same peak chamber pressure with appropriate smokeless powders.

With the relatively fast powders available at the time (which were all on the fast side for optimum loads in the 30-30), the 32 Special had the edge in a big way. It still does! Winchester's 1916 ballistics showed the 32 Special as having a ballistic edge out to about 200 yards, which most would consider the outside edge of effective range for this type of cartridge. With equal pressure modern loads using the best modern bullets, the ballistic edge extends to at least 300 yards.

Why then, did the 32 Special linger and then pass from the scene, while the 30-30 is still going strong after more than 105 years? Good question. The 32 Special had the sexy name and better ballistics. As if that were not enough, it should have been a better killer and it was chambered in the same rifles that guaranteed the 30-30 a place in history.

I have a few ideas but no answers. The 30-30 had the historic edge. Ammunition was probably more readily available and that alone is a vicious cycle that could have doomed the less popular 32 Special. Few bought a rifle chambered for the 32 Special because stores did not stock 32 Special ammunition. Stores did not stock the ammo because so few wanted it.

Other less important possible contributing factors include perceptively greater recoil: A slightly lighter gun - less barrel steel - shooting a similar weight bullet faster. There is also the possibility that 32 Special bullets failed more often than 30-30 bullets, because the latter impacted at a lower velocity.

[2damslow]

That stuff is only like 9 bucks a box. Your accuracy will suck and you will get so much copper build up in the rifling that you will regret it. I think that there would be so little pressure build up behind the loose bullet that your ballistics would suffer also.

Why risk it? Sell the ammo at the local scrounger gun shop and buy the stuff that God intended for it.

[nat]

Originally Posted by wob

What Makes It Special?

Originally Posted by bigndn

I know you can shoot .38's out of a .357, but not vice versa. A quick google search gave the following:

It is claimed that Winchester introduced the 32 WS, to provide a similar chambering that was more amenable to blackpowder loads. This cartridge, simply the 30-30 case necked up and chambered in a barrel with a significantly slower rifling twist (1/16 versus 1/12), works well with blackpowder.

What Makes It Special?

In other words, yes it should work just fine.

I had seen that site too............pretty cool info.

I was having similar concerns to 2damslow's, but at least I have some 32 win spcl to try first.

[Mike S]

No. No. No. No.

[nat]

Originally Posted by Mike S

No. No. No. No.

I guess that is a no

[nat]

Care to elaborate?

[Cruiser_Nerd]

Can you? Sure. Should you? No.

You won't blow up the rifle or even hurt yourself. But if you read the links, you'd be damn lucky to hit a barn door at 50 yards. Not the way I'd want to spend any quality time.............................If you just want to make noise, have someone load you blanks, in whichever case you prefer.

[nat]

I have reloading supplies and I will be buying a set of dies in 32 win spcl. I already bought the correct ammo, I was just hoping for a cheaper way to obtain some brass and still go boom with it

[Cruiser_Nerd]

That's an entirely different story..........you can neck up 30-30 no problem. Might even be able to use a standard die set and not need a neck expanding die.