[bigbertha]

Yesterday my wife and I were out walking one of our dogs and she saw some strange footprints coming from the direction of a neighboring trailor park. I had noticed footprints two days earlier leading from the same direction down along one of our fenced paddocks to the barn where the prints climbed over a fence and left the opposite direction. I figured someone got turned around but left when they realized their error. We are on 45 acres or so and run a farm in addition to regular jobs. We own pygmy goats as pets and make extra money on organic chicken eggs and organic veggies.

Anways, back to the issue. We had just returned from a nice lunch and Cornell Lacrosse game and were walking our dog... My wife was twenty feet ahead of me on one of our trails following the tracks and she stumbled upon two teenagers gutting an animal twenty feet over our property line on the adjacent wooded land. She didn't know if they were armed so she indicated her presence to them and came back to me elaborating on what they were doing. It is not hunting season so I gave her our dog and went over to see what they had and told her to go call the sheriff. As they saw me approaching they bagan to scramble and run at full speed into the forest. I yelled to them as they were running and picked up my pace as I realized something was terribly wrong. My wife called to me and came up behind me. A couple of seconds later, I came upon the steaming bloody and maimed body of one of our sweetest little goats with her entrails spilled over the ground. I immediately removed my jacket and took off after them at full speed screaming bloody murder and that they were fucking dead among many other choice things.

I gave full speed chase for about 1/2 mile when following their sporadic footprints in the melting snow and emerged into the middle of the huge trailer park. I was making so much noise that people were coming out of cracks and crevices all over the place but ran away as i raged toward them. One kind lady indicated who she thought might have been the culprits and I went pounding on doors and threatening to kill motherfuckers. I was out of my fucking mind. After 15 minutes of this and people lying to my face i promised to return and, I ran all the way back to my house. As I got there my wife was freaking out and the State troopers were en route. I took a cruiser back up the trail and waited with a framing hammer for whoever might come back to try and get the carcass. ( Later I would find they had been stealing our organic feed and chickens and torturing them before killing them. They had shot our goat with ahomemade bow and arrows and smashed ber in the face with rocks) I slowly came off my adreneline as I crouched behind a tree and State troopers and sheriff arrived and we walked the scene. They were so livid and disgusted at what they saw that we immediately went to the trailer park and they started doing their thing. Within 30 minutes we had the suspects in custody with a confession from the younger of the two and were en route to the Barracks for a deposition. One guy was 19 with a record, the other his 15 year old brother who looked like he is missing some chromasomes. This fuck would not look me in the eyes and had no remorse and actually flipped out and threatened me and and my wife while being detained at the scene. It was straight out of cops. We found a cage under a tarp with 3 live chickens stolen yesterday afternoon while we were out. We found chicken carcasses all over the place. They have been watching us from the woods for months and casing our shit whenever we left.

Anyways, they older guy is being charged with felony burglary and 3 counts of animal cruelty but he is getting out on bale in a day or two and my wife and I are pretty freaked out because I work 3rd shift and she is home alone all night a few times a week.


I am scared and don't really know what to do here. We are in the middle of the woods 1/2 mile from the road and the nearest neighbor. Troopers say go get a shotgun asap then get a cc and got a handgun for the house.

Is there a small shotgun my wife could use? She is 5'3" and 110 soaking wet. Can anyone recommend a specific weapon? We don't know much about what kinds of guns are out there right now.

We are also looking at handguns for each of us just to carry on our property. Maybe you could recommend something light and reliable with good knockdown capabilities for her? I was thinking of a G22 for myself. If this guy comes back to our house after getting released I want me or my wife to be able to put him down permanently before he knows what hit him.

Thanks so much guys. this sucks.

[e9999]

all my best wishes

cheapest shotgun will likely be a 12 ga. You can get light recoil loads as for cowboy shooting that should not be too bad. Walmart has them.

If $$ is not too much higher a 20 gauge maybe, if you're really worried about recoil. I would go with 12 ga myself.

A short barrel (18"?) is much handier around the house. Less "sporty" if you ever have to face a Jury, though, but not a major issue to consider given the circumstances. I would go short myself.

Pump is cheaper, very effective, not that difficult to use, and the noise will scare people away. Mossbergs are inexpensive and reliable. A short barreled 12 ga Mossberg 500 should be something like $300 at Walmart or similar. Well worth it. Don't get a pistol grip if the wife is not that strong.

For ammo, light recoil #7 or something like that (not 3" or more) for her, buckshot for you. You can load 1 or 2 fine shot to use before the buckshot.

If the wife can't handle the pump, there are also inexpensive side by sides with external hammers for cowboy shooting that are inexpensive and easier to handle.

good luck!


give thanks to the troopers, they look like standup guys!

oh, and take a leave from work for a few days, your wife will need your around, if only for support!

electronic earmuffs will not only protect you from losing part of your hearing if you have to shoot but will also help to locate bad guys with their amazing sound amplification. Not cheap,though, $150 or so.

hopefully, you're not in a State with a waiting period. If so, borrow a gun from a friend if legal where you are.

have a quick look at defensive shooting rules for your state on the web (as in don't shoot outside the house etc)


I'm sure you realize this, sorry, but be very careful to not let your emotions get the best of you. Reality check: No jury will look favorably on killing somebody over a goat, especially if you ran around yelling threats. And of course, even less so, if the guy is a kid with some mental issues. You must be in fear for your life to have the high ground, there.

[CJF]

Sorry for your situation, and I realize your question is about firearms, which I'm sure should/will be part of your solution.

But: You *really* need a couple good dogs.

[highlandcruzer]

X2 on the shotgun advice, and the dogs. I can't add too much more other than my condolences. Good luck ! I hope that this will end quickly and well for you.

I most definitely can relate to to feeling of having your property violated.....and worse, in this case. It's not easy to get over.

Perhaps you might consider getting an automatic game camera or two. Turn the flash off for daytime use. It's a cheap way to keep track of who comes on your property. I know several people that use them for this purpose.

Maybe around a hundred bucks for a digital, depending on the camera. G/L

[smkymntn]

I second the good dogs- My brother in law has 3 German Shepards and no one even thinks about coming on our little slice of heaven. As for guns- an XD40 handgun is great for people with small hands.

[Koffer]

Oh shit
Id be mighty upset and myself .
What is it with trailer parks attracting twisters and inbred retards ?
It must be all the aluminum
I say get this Mossberg for close quarters ( Mossberg Model 500 Persuader/Cruiser 2 3/4" -3" Shotgun 50580, 12 Gauge, 20", 3" Chmbr, 8 Shot Synth )

The model name says it all .

As for everything else I don't know
Just keep safe

[bigbertha]

You are right, but I fear this guy will just shoot a dog and keep coming. We have two pit bulls who are no good as guard dogs, they would rather lick an attacker than bite them. And yes, absolutely, I am taking time off work to stay with my wife this week. Her parents actually drove down today and are with us as extra support.

NYState Troopers have my utmost respect. I have thanked them profusely for there excellent police work and will be sending them tokens of our appreciation. They were on the scene and investigating less than 10 minutes after my wife dialed the number.

Thanks for the shotgun suggestions.

[KliersLC]

Get a restraining order on the kids due to the fact that they threatened you and the wife in front of the troopers. Then, using a game camera, catch them in the act of violating the provisions of the RO, and off to jail they go....

[informationjunky]

Originally Posted by KliersLC

Get a restraining order on the kids due to the fact that they threatened you and the wife in front of the troopers. Then, using a game camera, catch them in the act of violating the provisions of the RO, and off to jail they go....

X2...and check if he has priors he might be on parole

[informationjunky]

.410 or 20 gauge Saiga shotgun ...based on the AK, the auto should be easy for her to handle being a smaller person

[bigbertha]

Thanks you all for the really fast responses, good thoughts and solid advice. We are going to go to the store tomorrow to stock up in cameras, cell phones and whatnot. I'll let you know how this progresses.

He does have priors and he got 5K bail set but the county will pick up the tab because he is poor and he will be released tomorrow until his trial I think.

We are waiting on a call from the DA so we can find out what's going on.

I gotta run, but thanks again and I will be checking back tomorrow to see if there is anything else recommended.

Oh. And Happy Easter.

[flintknapper]

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

I would recommend you arm yourself immediately (if possible in your state).

You are smart to recognize that YOU are responsible for your personal safety. The troopers will do what they can, but they can’t be everywhere all the time…and the most unspeakable things can happen in mere seconds. Hopefully, this will all blow over, but you would be wise to prepare for the opposite.

If you live in NY state, this may help:


Office of the Rockland County Clerk of the Court - Rockland County, New York


Suffolk County Police Dept


Handgunlaw.us

[Cattledog]

Originally Posted by bigbertha

We are also looking at handguns for each of us just to carry on our property. Maybe you could recommend something light and reliable with good knockdown capabilities for her? I was thinking of a G22 for myself. If this guy comes back to our house after getting released I want me or my wife to be able to put him down permanently before he knows what hit him.

Thanks so much guys. this sucks.

A gun could be more risk if you and your wife are untrained and a are not 100% sure you are ready to kill/stop.

Get some training. My vote for shot gun would be a 12 gauge autoloader with a muzzlebrake. Have the stock fitted to your wife properly. In hand gun, IMO S & W MP .40 cal., shoots great, low recoil, very good stopping power, and reliable from my understanding. Then shoot everyday 30 rounds for several weeks.

Sorry for your loss, get a restraining order and stay safe.

[Bikerso]

Shotguns are the easiest to use when scared and not used to shooting much. It may be easier to just arm yourself with a couple of shotguns when out on walks. You may also want to consider increasing your fencing height and maybe even using razer wire on the side of your property that is near the trailer park. And I would definitely look into the trail cameras. Make sure to practice a lot if you do buy a gun---make it become second nature so if there is a time you must face these boys the reaction will be automatic and something you don't really have to think about. Good luck.

[Fly Rod]

I had a similar situation with some "rednecks" near my home without the mutilations. The fortunate thing is they are usually to scared to follow through with any threats. Your's may be to stupid to realize thier threats are on record so in your case I would get a restraining order ASAP! The judge will set a boundry around your property and person that is well defined. If that boundry is broken, especially with the circumstances of this case, they will go away quickly. Furthermore, with a restraining order in place and the violent nature of the offender any confrontation with a shotgun will appear as very justifiable.

As for self defence on your premise, a gas operated shot gun is very controllable. If you spend the $ on a good 20 guage your wife might even like shooting it. Another over looked home defense gun is a lever action rifle in 38/357 or 44sp/44mag. They are very easy to shoot well indoors and out. Far easier than a pistol for a new shooter. Loaded with good personal protection ammo you would be very well defended. Make sure you discuss the importance of identifying your target positively prior to shooting. With that thought in mind buy a tactical flashlight for both you and your wife. A good tactical light will blind any intruder, positively identify them and give you the upper hand at getting the first shot in.

You may wish to make sure your OP reflects the actual events not what you might have been feeling. They threatened you in front of the police, not the opposite. Make sure what happened in the forest was actual and not just felt.

[Mace]

so the goat was killed with a homemade bow??

these dudes are not balanced, but I doubt that they would go after anyone that can do some damage to them.

Keeping yourself safe is important tho. The dogs will let you know what is happening.

[Skillet]

Your story freaked me out.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Get a shotgun, your wife can handle it.

If you shoot them outside, drag them inside.

The world will be a better place short them.

[Cookiemonster]

As already pointed out sorry to hear about this.

First
Go browse around the local mom & pop gun shop(s). There you will find great great help and if your not too sure about one talk to the State Troopers they usually know a good shop to go to.

For the longer term get a couple of German Shepherds a look into some type of security system with audible alarms to try & scare off anyone who is stupid enough to come around.

Then a CCW for both of you & don't forget if your on your private property (not open to the public) you should be able to carry concealed (double check your local laws though) until your able to get CCW permits issued.

As far as firearms you wife would do best with a revolver, easy to handle and simple construction, you just point & shoot. No major mechanical buttons & whistles to go wrong. Also a shotgun fitted for her is an excellent idea as it too is a point and shoot weapon that (if configured right) will give little recoil with maximum knock down power. Don't forget a good gun safe to secure weapons when not at home less some punks do make it into the house when your away. Close circuit TV system is all the rage especially for a rural area.

Good luck & keep us informed.

[fsusteve]

you wanted to kill some dumbass kids over a goat?

['74 UA FJ]

Originally Posted by Skillet

Your story freaked me out.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Get a shotgun, your wife can handle it.

If you shoot them outside, drag them inside.

The world will be a better place short them.

You will be fucked if you shoot them outside and drag them inside. That's not how the legal system works.

[Bogo]

Originally Posted by bigbertha

This **** would not look me in the eyes and had no remorse and actually flipped out and threatened me and and my wife while being detained at the scene.

Get him charged on assault to. The cops are your witnesses to the assault charge. He is a clear danger to you if released. That may be enough to deny him bail.

[brian]

Originally Posted by fsusteve

you wanted to kill some dumbass kids over a goat?

pets, not just farm animals.
live stock is one thing, pets are another.

[JJS]

Judging from the fact you went to a Cornell lacrosse game, I'm guessing you're from New York. Be careful with that state; it's not overly friendly to the defense of one's property and self. I'm going to agree with the Mossberg 500 notion.

[Sno bored]

I don't know much about guns, but I think you should do lots of target practice over the next few days. The trailer park folks would hear lots of gunshots and may be less likely to come visit again if the know that you have guns and know how to use them. Good luck.

[lunyou]

is NY a CCW state? I don't think it is.

I would say get a good shot gun and go shooting on your property so everone in the trailer park knows you have a gun. Don't go brandishing it in the trailer park. Just get as close to it and shoot in a safe direction, being careful not shoot the Trailer Parks direction. The sound will be heard and it will get around to the kids that "those neighbors have a shotgun and I wouldn't be goin over there.........you'll get yourself shot".

I would be very worried about safety right now due to the fact they planned out the killing of your animal and made a bow to do it. It is easy for me to say it was just a goat...........but once killing goats and chickens looses its excitement they are VERY likely to step up to your Pit Bulls(as they view them as dangerous) and then to you and your family.

I would get a restraining order and then I would shoot them the second the were within legal shooting parameters of the law.

lunyou

[ff347]

You have some good gun choices suggested. Do you have a fence around your actual residence? I believe that I might consider one if you do not to sort of insulate yourself. A good friend who is involved with law enforcement and has made some not so nice enemies always said that geese and guinea hens are your best early warning system. He has them in sort of a perimeter set up, like a prison so to speak and they occupy the outer ring. I personally hate both of those birds but they are noisy as hell and two dumbasses like that would never sneak up on them.
Good luck with the situation it is a tough one. Sounds like those two shits are trouble but don't let them get you in trouble.

[e9999]

well, before you go shooting all over your property to try and scare folks away or to get practice, be sure it's legal to do so where you are... (usually not in urban areas and near roads)

[lunyou]

Originally Posted by e9999

well, before you go shooting all over your property to try and scare folks away or to get practice, be sure it's legal to do so where you are... (usually not in urban areas and near roads)

good point........i forgot that he might actually live in the city limits........I apologize for my misjudgement.

lunyou

[calphi27]

you should also look into setting up motion sensor lighting on the property. you can also get some cheap color/nightvision video cameras so you can turn your tv to the security channel and watch your property. Here is an cheap example of a wireless camera system from target for $150

www.target.com/gp/detail.html/602-3305581-3662224?ASIN=B000EW3NGC&AFID=Froogle&LNM=B000EW3NG C|Astak_Wireless_Weatherproof_Night_Vision_IndoorO utdoor_Security_Camera_SilverCM812C2&ci_src=141109 44&ci_sku=B000EW3NGC&ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001

edit:i dont know why it wont hotlink, but you can copy and paste

[Skillet]

Originally Posted by fsusteve

you wanted to kill some dumbass kids over a goat?

Is there a problem? They used to hang people for stealing horses.

Perhaps those old ways are best revisited in this case.

Sounds like the shallow end of the gene pool could use some draining.

Then for the guy to threaten him as he is being arrested?

Pffft.