[fsusteve]

Originally Posted by Skillet

Is there a problem? They used to hang people for stealing horses.

Perhaps those old ways are best revisited in this case.

Sounds like the shallow end of the gene pool could use some draining.

Then for the guy to threaten him as he is being arrested?

Pffft.

ok, I don't want to turn this into a chat thing, I'd be pissed I understand that, I'd prolly want to kick the shit out them too. Having dealt with little shits like these guys on numerous occasions they tend to talk a lot of shit and never follow up on it. I've prolly had my life and my family's life threatened a hundred times, all I'm saying is be careful, don't over react but take some reasonable precautions.

[nat]

Originally Posted by fsusteve

you wanted to kill some dumbass kids over a goat?

Don't most sociopaths start out by torturing animals?

[bigndn]

Originally Posted by nat

Don't most sociopaths start out by torturing animals?

Good point.
























But wait, didn't most of us torture insects/animals as children? I mean seriously........I taught the dog to sit with a switch. It worked, but today would be considered animal cruelty.

[smkymntn]

What you want is your security and piece of mind back. With that being said, provide yourself and your family with whatever it takes to make that happen. Focus on the goal and put a plan into action. Go over worst case scenarios with your wife if she is alone and something (god forbid) happens. Be as prepared as you can possibly be. Know your enemy and counter the threat. They have stalked you and your family, that shows the MO- put counter measures in place that help you sleep at night.

We live in a very rural area that gets so dark you cannot see your hand in front of your face at night, do I have night vision? You bet- if something goes bump I can see exactly what it is, and I have a gun for every occasion, close range, long range and scare em off with a flesh wound from 200 yards. It sounds like you have a clear head about things ( at least once the adrenalin wore off)

[nat]

Originally Posted by bigndn

Good point.



But wait, didn't most of us torture insects/animals as children? I mean seriously........I taught the dog to sit with a switch. It worked, but today would be considered animal cruelty.

I believe there is a difference between normal kid crap and sadistically enjoying torturing and killing.

Killing a goat, smashing its face with rocks, etc is far beyond what most kids do.

[T.U.F.F.]

Sorry for your loss and having to deal with those jerks.

!. Do you have your land posted? I would post it for future. If they would have came onto your posted land and damaged anything they can also be charged with criminal tresspassing.

2. We have a really long drive and we have motion detectors on the edge down right off the main road. If someone turns and comes up the driveway 100-150 ft they go off. They are realatively inexpensive.

3. Auto loading shot barrel shotgun - take the choke tube out and leave it out so the pattern really spreads out. I would also have a lazer sight mounted to it that way there is no doubt put the dot on'em and pull the trigger.

4. I agree with pistols for you and your wife when you all are on your walks. My wife has a hammerless revolver. I carry a Taruas PT 100 in 40 S&W.

5. When you talk to the DA tell him/her about the personel threat and the troopers who witnessed it and get the restraining order for you and your wife.

I am again sorry for your loss but now it is time to make sure it is the end of it, one way or another.

Take care of you and what is yours.

Best of luck!

[bigndn]

Originally Posted by T.U.F.F.

Sorry for your loss and having to deal with those jerks.

!. Do you have your land posted? I would post it for future. If they would have came onto your posted land and damaged anything they can also be charged with criminal tresspassing.

2. We have a really long drive and we have motion detectors on the edge down right off the main road. If someone turns and comes up the driveway 100-150 ft they go off. They are realatively inexpensive.

3. Auto loading shot barrel shotgun - take the choke tube out and leave it out so the pattern really spreads out. I would also have a lazer sight mounted to it that way there is no doubt put the dot on'em and pull the trigger.

4. I agree with pistols for you and your wife when you all are on your walks. My wife has a hammerless revolver. I carry a Taruas PT 100 in 40 S&W.

5. When you talk to the DA tell him/her about the personel threat and the troopers who witnessed it and get the restraining order for you and your wife.

I am again sorry for your loss but now it is time to make sure it is the end of it, one way or another.

Take care of you and what is yours.

Best of luck!

Good advice. The only thing I would add is to "Protect yourself and yours first". Ultimately a restraining order just gives the police a direction to look if you're dead.

[CJF]

Originally Posted by fsusteve

I've prolly had my life and my family's life threatened a hundred times, all I'm saying is be careful, don't over react but take some reasonable precautions.

There ya go.

Heartfelt, useful information.

[Lavarock64]

Sorry for your troubles.

Everyone gave great info.

You mentioned Cornell. Where are you located? I work in Ithaca and have quite an interest in firearms and the local shooting clubs. I thought I was the only Cruzer head in this neck of the woods.

let me know, Chris

[dieselcruiserhead]

Good luck with it indeed... I am from near that area, sorry to hear about the animals. In hindsight though, despite what they said and I do think it is good to get a gun or two, don't let these guys get the best of you and they odds are this is that was it, despite the theats. I would do the restraining order though (free/cheap protection), possibly some posted signs, if you want to do the camera (that is a big step) but probably worth it too I suppose, and let the little legal things do the work for you. You do not want to shoot anyone which is also the absolute worst case scenario, and no one wins. There could also be more at play, some mental issues etc, the judgement particularly in the firstresponse to your post is very good.

Good luck with it and I cannot remember NY State's laws though I remember they were tough. Hang in there from this lacrosse player as well.

Cheers, Andre

[tehcruiser]

Again, sorry to hear about your troubles. I only had a bike stolen, and I know how that made me feel, I can't even begin to imagine having my pets tortured and killed.
Good thing that this came to light now. You never know how far those guys might have gone, since they seemed to think your property was an open range, do as you please place. God forbid, it could have gone to the next level.
Excellent advice here, from dogs, guns, security systems, legal advice. I wish you the best, and I hope that once again you will be able to live in peace.

[Atoyot1031]

I'm with you on this one Skillet. fsusteve, don't forget, they tortured the animals and basically beat them to death. This is the same shit you hear about when they are telling you a serial killers back story. It's not like they killed a chicken and ate it. They are sadistic little shits who have obviously gotten away with plenty before.

A single shot 20ga can be had for around $100. Get a couple of them. Get yourself trained on how to use them definitely, but a shotgun is excellent for self defense: it sprays so you don't have to be perfectly ono target, it's efffective range is shorter than other firearms thus protecting neighbors or animals outside the house, they are easy to use, and very intimidating.

I can't image how scared you must be. It doesn't sound like you have kids in the house, but if you do, make sure the entire family has a plan. Talk to the police and DA and see if you can get these fawkers locked up on anything else. My prayers are with you.

[cruiserdan]

Originally Posted by Atoyot1031

They are sadistic little shits who have obviously gotten away with plenty before.

There you have it.

This is a very difficult situation at best. The fact that I moderate this board precludes me from voicing my true feelings regarding the perps. Suffice it to say that it would be colorful and blunt. Protect yourself and family and DO NOT use what anybody could construe as "unnecessary force".

Arm yourselves with noisy pump shotguns, loaded with #4 shot (any larger could be construed as pre-meditated) and wait until they are in the house before you pull a trigger.

[bigbertha]

Wow. Thanks to all of you who have given us so much positive support and advice. It really helps. I just wanted to check in quickly and let you know what was going on thus far. I spoke to the DA today and I received a subpoena to testify at a preliminary hearing tomorrow afternoon. The DA is pushing for time in the a State Pen. The guy is still locked up but he may get bail set tomorrow. His little brother (15), the other perp. was out before we even finished our deposition.

We got a wildlife camera, cell phones and an Mossberg 500. We are going to apply for pistol permits and firearms safety courses this week as well. Dan thanks for the ammo input. We have #9 buckshot but will go get #4.

As for the "just a goat" comment. This goat was not just killed. She was tortured, maimed and then brutally killed. They shot her 6 times while she ran from them, then bludgeoned her. They did not kill her after they were done, they threw her body over a fence dragged her off our property gave her a shallow cut just for shits and giggles then and evicerated her. (partial confession) The chickens were killed in a similar fashion. They did it for fun and then gutted our goat like they were practicing for bigger things.

sick.

[Skillet]

Originally Posted by bigbertha

Wow. Thanks to all of you who have given us so much positive support and advice. It really helps. I just wanted to check in quickly and let you know what was going on thus far. I spoke to the DA today and I received a subpoena to testify at a preliminary hearing tomorrow afternoon. The DA is pushing for time in the a State Pen. The guy is still locked up but he may get bail set tomorrow. His little brother (15), the other perp. was out before we even finished our deposition.

We got a wildlife camera, cell phones and an Mossberg 500. We are going to apply for pistol permits and firearms safety courses this week as well. Dan thanks for the ammo input. We have #9 buckshot but will go get #4.

As for the "just a goat" comment. This goat was not just killed. She was tortured, maimed and then brutally killed. They shot her 6 times while she ran from them, then bludgeoned her. They did not kill her after they were done, they threw her body over a fence dragged her off our property gave her a shallow cut just for shits and giggles then and evicerated her. (partial confession) The chickens were killed in a similar fashion. They did it for fun and then gutted our goat like they were practicing for bigger things.

sick.

Vermin.

I stand by my previous comments.

Will the 15 year old be charged?

If not, someone better keep his name in the cookie jar for when people start showing up half eaten and full of ice pick holes.

If people (and I use the term loosely) like that were dealt with more harshly in the beginning, there would be fewer Dahmers running around making fricassee out of people meat.

[spincycle]

Originally Posted by Skillet

If people (and I use the term loosely) like that were dealt with more harshly in the beginning, there would be fewer Dahmers running around making fricassee out of people meat.

The sad truth is that sociopaths/unstable people like this often won't be deterred by harsh treatment...it'll just come out later/elsewhere. The OP can and should take the steps that have been suggested here...but I doubt that police/court intervention can change the road these kids are on.

[Skillet]

Originally Posted by spincycle

but I doubt that police/court intervention can change the road these kids are on.

By "harshly" I did not mean the "police/court".

If those inbred idiots came after me, my wife or my goat on my property, they would not be leaving to face charges or the "system".
They are already on record for threatening him in front of LE, so I am sure that would play in court.

I am not trying to be a tough guy, or intolerant I just get tired of hearing about this element of humanity interfering with and sometimes ending the lives of normal, happy people trying to exist in peace.

It seems like, no matter where you go or how hard you try to live peacefully, there is always some sociopath there to screw it up.

The shotgun and the #4 is a great start.

Never underestimate the depravity of the human race just protect yourself against it.


A couple of years back, there was a guy in LA who kidnapped and raped a young girl. He was fleeing the area with the little girl still alive in his car. An Amber Alert was issued and within a few hours, the guy was spotted. The LA police and CHP chased him north towards Bakersfield, CA.

The Bakersfield Sheriff picked up the chase and the others let go.

When he was cornered on a dirt road with the girl still in his car in great danger, the sheriff waited for their chance and dispatched the guy. Pretty cut and dry, they did not f*ck around.

When the idiot press started questioning the Sheriff about his harshness he said, and I paraphrase:

"He raped and nearly killed an innocent little girl.
Now, there will be no lengthy trial or waste of taxpayer money to keep him alive in prison through countless appeals. He is dead. End of story."

It was rumored that the CHP and LA police chased him into Bakersfield on purpose because of their reputation for handling things like that.

I agree with the sheriff.

[nat]

and I agree with Techno Viking

[Atoyot1031]

I agree with Skillet again (twice in one thread!).

Originally Posted by Skillet

It was rumored that the CHP and LA police chased him into Bakersfield on purpose because of their reputation for handling things like that.

Is that really in California? You're shattering my stereotypes of you people...

[Skillet]

Originally Posted by Atoyot1031

I agree with Skillet again (twice in one thread!).

Tis truly a glorious day.

Originally Posted by Atoyot1031

Is that really in California? You're shattering my stereotypes of you people...

This is a big state, my friend. There are many local governments in California that don't adhere to the Sacramento / Los Angeles / Santa Cruz stereotypes.

I would bet some wampum that NY has similar local governments in certain areas.

[Atoyot1031]

I don't know about NY, but here it CO we are pretty safe outside the People's Republic of Boulder. Actually, last year when I was having some bear problems (read: Forum related discussion), I contacted Aspen's finest to let them know that if another bear tried to break into my kitchen at 3am when I've got a 2yr old boy sleeping in one room, and a pregnant wife in the other, that I'd be the proud owner of a new rug. They told me that i would be in violation of the law if I were to touch off a firearm within city limits. I asked them how this could be since Colorado has a "Make My Day" Law. They told me that law only applies to humans! Go figure. So I shot the bastard with my pellet gun (read: not a firearm) between the eyes, and he decided to pillage elsewhere...f

[bpenn1980]

I'm with Skillet, your story freaks me out. I grew up in a rural area and I can associate with the feeling of being "on your own". There are some truly horrible people out there in the world.

You got a lot of good advice.

Originally Posted by CJF

But: You *really* need a couple good dogs.

Yes.
My boss recent came home to a home burglary. Luckily he realized what was happening before he went inside and ran to his car and drove down a few blocks away while calling the cops. After all was said and done he wanted a gun. The officers at the scene recommended a dog over firearm unless he was prepared to train and become highly proficient in high-stress shooting situations. The problem is that if a gun is around and you dont use it, the bad guys potentially can take it from you. Not good.

Originally Posted by KliersLC

Get a restraining order on the kids due to the fact that they threatened you and the wife in front of the troopers. Then, using a game camera, catch them in the act of violating the provisions of the RO, and off to jail they go....

Kliers sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

Originally Posted by Mace

so the goat was killed with a homemade bow??

these dudes are not balanced, but I doubt that they would go after anyone that can do some damage to them.

Keeping yourself safe is important tho. The dogs will let you know what is happening.

Originally Posted by lunyou

I would be very worried about safety right now due to the fact they planned out the killing of your animal and made a bow to do it. It is easy for me to say it was just a goat...........but once killing goats and chickens looses its excitement they are VERY likely to step up to your Pit Bulls(as they view them as dangerous) and then to you and your family.

I would get a restraining order and then I would shoot them the second the were within legal shooting parameters of the law.

I agree that whatever mental sickness would enable a person to premeditate a very calculated attack on a farm animal for the sole benefit of mutilation and death should be taken VERY seriously. I hunt, and I can tell you that causing a slow death via a badly placed shot is horrible. Any sane mentally balanced person would never cause such suffering on purpose. Moving on from a farm animal to a pet and then maybe a small child/woman or other easy target should not be ruled out.

However, do not be eager to pull the trigger. Once that is done it can never be taken back.

Originally Posted by Cookiemonster

Don't forget a good gun safe to secure weapons when not at home less some punks do make it into the house when your away. Close circuit TV system is all the rage especially for a rural area.

Keep your guns (pump shotgun + ?) locked up and safe when away, but take them out and load them when you're home. An unloaded firearm in a locked safe never prevented a horrible crime.

Close circuit is likely pricier than a game camera, but offers you more control. This may be a situation where putting some things on a credit card is reasonable.

Originally Posted by calphi27

you should also look into setting up motion sensor lighting on the property.

Some high quality flood lights set up at likely home/barn entry points are a good idea.

[MaddBaggins]

If that happened to me, all I can say is, I know a lot of good places around here where a body could be lost for a long, long time. The desert is not kind to corpses. If they came to my house again...

I bet maybe you know some out of the way place or some deep, old mine shaft.

Not suggesting anything, just thinking out loud.

[calphi27]

Originally Posted by bpenn1980

Close circuit is likely pricier than a game camera, but offers you more control. This may be a situation where putting some things on a credit card is reasonable.

the closed circuit I posted was $150 for two wireless cameras and a receiver. That stuff can be had for cheap. Game cameras are nice, but if they see them and take them, the images are gone.

[Bogo]

Originally Posted by calphi27

the closed circuit I posted was $150 for two wireless cameras and a receiver. That stuff can be had for cheap. Game cameras are nice, but if they see them and take them, the images are gone.

I have a 4 camera closed circuit setup on my farm. It is all digitally recorded on one of my computers. I spent a bunch more on it than $150, but it records at night using IR. Make sure that your recorder is secured against theft.

[bigndn]

Originally Posted by MaddBaggins

If that happened to me, all I can say is, I know a lot of good places around here where a body could be lost for a long, long time. The desert is not kind to corpses. If they came to my house again...

I bet maybe you know some out of the way place or some deep, old mine shaft.

Not suggesting anything, just thinking out loud.

I work on 1.3 million acres of National Forest...................again, thinking out loud.

[Atticus]

Originally Posted by cruiserdan

There you have it.

This is a very difficult situation at best. The fact that I moderate this board precludes me from voicing my true feelings regarding the perps. Suffice it to say that it would be colorful and blunt. Protect yourself and family and DO NOT use what anybody could construe as "unnecessary force".

Arm yourselves with noisy pump shotguns, loaded with #4 shot (any larger could be construed as pre-meditated) and wait until they are in the house before you pull a trigger.

No offense, Dan, but I don't think that's good legal advice. "Pre-meditated" implies that you set out to kill someone. Defending yourself in anything but an altercation you instigate is not "pre-meditated" homicide. That fact of the matter, bigbertha, is you need to do what you need to do to protect yourself while remaining as passive as possible. Avoid all confrontation. Don't take risks about when and where you walk. At the same time, if someone brings the threat to you, you are fully within your rights to neutralize that threat. A dead threat is a neutralized threat. A wounded threat is not. I am not specifically familiar with New York state law, but as a general matter, you can use whatever force is necessary to defend yourself when you are in imminent danger of bodily harm. It makes people uneasy to think that there are no "bright-line" rules about this stuff, but that's the way it is. Self-defense scenarios, just like the underlying threats themselves, must be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. If you lay in wait on your property line and kill someone who crosses a boundary, you're in deep shit. If you kill someone who has come into your home to harm you, you're probably fine. I say that with the caveat that often there is a requirement that you do everything reasonably possible to flee from the danger, but if you cannot, and they are there, and you make up your mind that it will be either you (or your wife) or them, do what you have to do. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six. And remember, OJ went free. You probably will not be tried for anything, any way.

Good luck pal. If you want a gun, get one you feel comfortable using, and which will be lethal if employed in self-defense. If you are in danger, do not be afraid to defend yourself. Clear your mind of everything else.

[bigbertha]

Atticus, Skillet, Bpenn, Dieselcruiserhead...all of you guys, thanks for all the support!!

So we went to the prelim yesterday and the guy's scumbag lawyer tried to size us up by cracking jokes about having, "just a chicken thief" on his hands before the hearing. We ignored him. Then he came over oh so sheepishly and said he'd like to apologize on behalf of his client and that he would apologize to us himself but he might say something stupid and get himself in trouble whatever that means. I told politely and firmly him he was full of shit and he walked away. The guy basically admitted to us within earshot of 3 State Troopers and the town justice that his client was guilty, which he is. Anyways, we are being represented by the ADA of Tompkins county who is very well spoken and knowledgeable and is taking this very seriously. We have a lot of good people on our side here.

The guy waived his right to a felony hearing and pleaded, can you belive it, Not Guilty!? I don't know what he's thinking by pleading not guilty but I'm not a lawyer. I did not have to testify. The Judge issued an order of restraint and had some harsh words for the guy. He set bail at a level that would make it difficult for him or his family to raise and it was over. This guy will either plead his way out or we go to grand jury in a month. We will be notified if he makes bail. The DA is trying to go for Aggravated animal abuse, which is a felony, in addition to the felony burglary but they want to keep this guy in the system either incarcerated or under close supervision for as many years as possible and are trying to work out how to best do this.

Apparently he is currently already on 10 years of parole for some past convictions! They are trying to get a parole violation from his PO to add to the case and make sure he stays in prison at least until the trial and beyond. His younger brother will be tried in family court under the same charges so we also have to deal with that half, but we have not been subpoena'd for that yet.
Waiting is the worst part. We are waiting for trials, waiting for phone calls, waiting for subpoenas, waiting for the boogy man to jump out the woods, wating to find more mutilated animals, waiting for bullets to fly through the windows... waiting for some normalcy to return to our lives. What do thay say? Time heals all wounds right?

Just wanted to keep you guys in the loop. This has been a life altering experience and I hope none of you ever have to deal with anything like this. It just sucks.

Be safe.

[Atticus]

Originally Posted by bigbertha

Atticus, Skillet, Bpenn, Dieselcruiserhead...all of you guys, thanks for all the support!!

So we went to the prelim yesterday and the guy's scumbag lawyer tried to size us up by cracking jokes about having, "just a chicken thief" on his hands before the hearing. We ignored him. Then he came over oh so sheepishly and said he'd like to apologize on behalf of his client and that he would apologize to us himself but he might say something stupid and get himself in trouble whatever that means. I told politely and firmly him he was full of shit and he walked away. The guy basically admitted to us within earshot of 3 State Troopers and the town justice that his client was guilty, which he is. Anyways, we are being represented by the ADA of Tompkins county who is very well spoken and knowledgeable and is taking this very seriously. We have a lot of good people on our side here.

The guy waived his right to a felony hearing and pleaded, can you belive it, Not Guilty!? I don't know what he's thinking by pleading not guilty but I'm not a lawyer. I did not have to testify. The Judge issued an order of restraint and had some harsh words for the guy. He set bail at a level that would make it difficult for him or his family to raise and it was over. This guy will either plead his way out or we go to grand jury in a month. We will be notified if he makes bail. The DA is trying to go for Aggravated animal abuse, which is a felony, in addition to the felony burglary but they want to keep this guy in the system either incarcerated or under close supervision for as many years as possible and are trying to work out how to best do this.

Apparently he is currently already on 10 years of parole for some past convictions! They are trying to get a parole violation from his PO to add to the case and make sure he stays in prison at least until the trial and beyond. His younger brother will be tried in family court under the same charges so we also have to deal with that half, but we have not been subpoena'd for that yet.
Waiting is the worst part. We are waiting for trials, waiting for phone calls, waiting for subpoenas, waiting for the boogy man to jump out the woods, wating to find more mutilated animals, waiting for bullets to fly through the windows... waiting for some normalcy to return to our lives. What do thay say? Time heals all wounds right?

Just wanted to keep you guys in the loop. This has been a life altering experience and I hope none of you ever have to deal with anything like this. It just sucks.

Be safe.

Good news. Stay on top of this. Even though they're supposed to notify you, you don't want to depend on their notice in case they let it slip through the cracks.

Take it easy.

[bigndn]

Thanks for the update. I, for one, hope they throw the book at the little shits.

Hang tough!