got coils for my 60

[lowtideride]

thanks agian concrete for the hook up...


I will be using 80 coils for my 60...I wont start to rip my truck apart to do this til after GSMTR, I dont want my truck down for the count...but if any of you 4-linkers are going to GSMTR mind if i have a look see under your pigs?

In the mean time Ill start fabbing up the mount for the links since I dont need the truck apart to do that.






THE PLAN...

3 Link the front with a panhard

4-link the rear


But, I need some help from you guys...on a few things. (as follows)

-What kind of hiem joint to use with my 60 (&where to get it)?

-On the other side of the link what bushings to use? much like leaf spring bushings?

-How do I make the links adjustable?

-How much space should seperate the lower and upper links?

-Planned on using 3/16 for the brackets?? thick enough?


I know it is a lot of questions but I thought it was better to ask all at once then start a bunch of other threads...Dint want to annoy anyone..

The truck will and IS a DD and weekend warrior with a few big offroad trips a year...

After the 4-link is done I still want to keep it a DD at least for a few more years...




Thanks for all the help...I will be doing this one way or another...any help getting this going would be nice...

thanks agian guys...
-Al

[bustanutley]

Most people get there joints from http://www.polyperformance.com/ as far as which joints to choose that’s up to you.

Here a four link calculator to help you choose your link lengths and angles
http://www.isd623.org/ben/jp/fourlink/ (down the last time I checked)

If I remember correctly you want to make you upper links about 2/3s the length of your lowers (this is with reference to the frame), but the angle at which the links are oriented is as important as the lengths.

And of coarse there is details of woodies setup on a 40 here http://www.isd623.org/ben/jp/fourlink/.

[Rock Taxi]

I keep telling people this, but I'm not sure if anyone listens.

STAY OFF THE INTERNET FORUMS WHEN BUILDING YOUR SUSPENSION!!!!!

Most folks don't have a clue of the information required to build a suspension properly.

Get a sprint car chassis manual and study that for the required knowledge.

As for heims - get quality heims or use bushings all the way around. Yes, good bushings will hold up as well as or better than the best heim joints.

Lots of ways to make links adjustable. Of course adjustability for length is usually handled by the heims or bushing inserts and threaded rods I use. I have seen all kinds of approaches to making links adjustable for hight. Check out the build I did on Nolen's FJ buggy to see my answer. Search POR for a user name BGreen and his super bling ideas. Lots of holes in the brackets are the lowest tech but very servicable answer.

Ed

[lowtideride]

the smartest way i could think of making the links adjustable was to thread it like tie rods...But i dont know where i could go to get this done...


as for help on the net...I got some good help with a SOA when i did it..no doubt this is not the same. but it seems a few of you that always hang out in the hard core section know what your are doing.


As for running bushings all the way around.... will that give enough flex for the 3-link in the front?

[lowtideride]

sounds beefy enough... http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/...&cat=27&page=1

[Rock Taxi]

Originally Posted by lowtideride

As for running bushings all the way around.... will that give enough flex for the 3-link in the front?

They are fine on my radius arm front. Fine on the 4 link rear too.

I am running heims on the panhard in the front though, more for space issues than strength.

Ed

[Rock Taxi]

Originally Posted by lowtideride

as for help on the net...I got some good help with a SOA when i did it..no doubt this is not the same. but it seems a few of you that always hang out in the hard core section know what your are doing.

SOA is not anything like link suspensions. I think I have made some good link setups (but I KNOW my first rig was not done properly) but I didn't even have a clue as to what I didn't know. Now I at least I have enough knowledge to understand what a novice I am.

Ed

[zebrabeefj40]

Originally Posted by lowtideride

the smartest way i could think of making the links adjustable was to thread it like tie rods...But i dont know where i could go to get this done...

Right and left hand threaded tube inserts with matching right and left hand threaded rod ends of your choice will take care of this nicely.

I agree with Rock Taxi: spend a couple bucks on a couple sprint car/stock car chassis books. You will be far better off then trying to weed the BS out of the fact on 4x4 forum threads and their armchair experts.

...and take lots of pictures so I can copy it if it works!

Nick Jennings

[lowtideride]

I will go out a find a chassis book this week....

what rating should i get for my hiem joints from the link above????


I'll got the book just looking for tips....yulp ill take lots o pics

-Al

[cruiserrg]

Originally Posted by lowtideride

-What kind of hiem joint to use with my 60 (&where to get it)?

For my rig, I have 1.25" shank 1"bore hiems at the chassis with misalignment bushings from polyperformance, the axle end of the lowers I run basic poly bushings which can be gotten about anywhere (mine were from Off Road Designs). The upper links on mine are johnnyjoints at both ends. (didn't have the fancier RE joints at the time).

Originally Posted by lowtideride

-On the other side of the link what bushings to use? much like leaf spring bushings?

Like I mentioned on mine I ran std poly bushings. Since you are running a DD I would consider running some sort of poly joint (REjoint, bushings, combination) at one end of the links at least to absord some of the rough roads out there. Heims will transfer all road feel and you may no want on them on both ends of your links.

Originally Posted by lowtideride

-How do I make the links adjustable?

ed has the answers to these in his thread, I would make sure if you make them adjustable to build in beef and consider the amount of use you will see in this as a DD. Adjustments can loosen which would not be good at 65mph.

Originally Posted by lowtideride

-How much space should seperate the lower and upper links?

This will depend on fitment of links and placement. when I do mine, I make the lowers so the lowest point of the link is even with the lowest point of the axle tube. I then place uppers above the diff enough to clear during flex. Front should be about the same. This is what will fight the axle rotation under accel and braking so being a DD you should build in a decent amount of seperation and beefy brackets and links.

Originally Posted by lowtideride

-Planned on using 3/16 for the brackets?? thick enough?

This depends on the design of the brackets. 3/16" would be the MINIMUM I would use on a DD heavy rig like a 60. I run 1/4" on my junk, but its for rock duty only. Make sure to add in latteral support and box in the brackets. DON"T just weld in some link tabs an call it good, you are running a DD and that add in a lot more stresses during braking and corners. I would also consider welding in extra material around the bolt holes considering the 3/16" and the fact you will be using as DD

You will see in most of my comments I mentioned DD. PLEASE take this into account during your research and design of this. You vehicle will see very different stresses than your average off-road only 4x4 and care should be given to the selection of parts and materials.

Good Luck.

[FLYINGLOW]

I wanted to do a link suspension and bought Chassis Engineering by Herb Adams. It is more race car stuff, but it still has the basics. I read it front to back and decided to hold off on the conversion. Learn what anti squat is. I have seen backyard coil conversions and the truck sqats bad when accelerated forward. Things like that really effect how the truck will handle on the road and off. There is much more to it than bolting the links up.

[lowtideride]

thanks for your time posting all that up cruiserrg....I will build it to be beef and to be safe...

[Mace]

Originally Posted by lowtideride

thanks agian concrete for the hook up...


I will be using 80 coils for my 60...I wont start to rip my truck apart to do this til after GSMTR, I dont want my truck down for the count...but if any of you 4-linkers are going to GSMTR mind if i have a look see under your pigs?

In the mean time Ill start fabbing up the mount for the links since I dont need the truck apart to do that.






THE PLAN...

3 Link the front with a panhard

4-link the rear


But, I need some help from you guys...on a few things. (as follows)

-What kind of hiem joint to use with my 60 (&where to get it)?

-On the other side of the link what bushings to use? much like leaf spring bushings?

-How do I make the links adjustable?

-How much space should seperate the lower and upper links?

-Planned on using 3/16 for the brackets?? thick enough?


I know it is a lot of questions but I thought it was better to ask all at once then start a bunch of other threads...Dint want to annoy anyone..

The truck will and IS a DD and weekend warrior with a few big offroad trips a year...

After the 4-link is done I still want to keep it a DD at least for a few more years...




Thanks for all the help...I will be doing this one way or another...any help getting this going would be nice...

thanks agian guys...
-Al

I got most of my stuff from Poly Performance.
They are good guys..

On my lowers I use 1.25" monster heims at the axle end with RE joints at the frame Thsi allows me a certian amount of adjustment in the links
Uppers have a 3/4x 5/8 heim (the highest quality possible.)

Figure that you will want around 6-8" of vertical seperation at the axle end.

I would do at least 1/4" thick tabs.. Beef is better IMHO


Woody has said it a bunch of times. Figure out where you CAN fit everything. then design from there.

You can have the absolute perfect suspension designed. making it fit is a whole different ball of wax..

[Junk]

Originally Posted by zebrabeefj40

...and take lots of pictures so I can copy it if it works!

Nick Jennings

Easy there bitch You may be givin me a hand doing something like this in the future.

[reffug]

Originally Posted by Junk

Easy there bitch You may be givin me a hand doing something like this in the future.

What exactly is going on in that pea sized brain of yours.

Hmmmm I wonder.

[zebrabeefj40]

Originally Posted by Junk

Easy there bitch You may be givin me a hand doing something like this in the future.

...So just WHEN were you planning to move closer to my shop???

[HZJ60 Guy]

Ive built four coil/coil over suspensions. I wouldnt use a heim joint ever. Here's what to use:

Johnny joints

They are rebuildable, you can greese them, and they're tough.

More Johnny Joints

These are so much better than heims. Then at the frame use standard bushings.


TB

[Radd Cruisers]

[quote=Rock Taxi]I keep telling people this, but I'm not sure if anyone listens.

STAY OFF THE INTERNET FORUMS WHEN BUILDING YOUR SUSPENSION!!!!!

Woody has said it before, what works some does not work for others, things that should not work in theory do on some rigs.

I also remember Jack(Medusa) saying he had designed his linkage, it was not text book and worked great.

Rock Taxi`s advise on reading up on anything about linkage should give you better insight. Something I intend to do.

[Mace]

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

Ive built four coil/coil over suspensions. I wouldnt use a heim joint ever. Here's what to use:

Johnny joints

They are rebuildable, you can greese them, and they're tough.

More Johnny Joints

These are so much better than heims. Then at the frame use standard bushings.


TB

How do you adjust those links?

[HZJ60 Guy]

You dont adjust them. Not those anyway. You make sure your geometry is correct and bolt them into place. Ive never had a reason to adjust them. Once you get the correct castor and camber numbers you want you biuld the links for those values. Does anyone ever adjust the links on an FJ80? The factory gets what they want and builds the links for that value. Non of the links that I know of from any suspension manufacturer are adjustable. Maybe you know of some.

Let me know.




Tom

[Mace]

That is a bad idea IMHO.

How many examples do you want?
Superlift, Fabtech, Rancho, Rubicon Express and even the Black Diamond cruiser coilover kit was adjustable.

There are too many variables not to leave the adjustability.

a 40's frame is commonly tweaked. So even if you spend hours measuring and making sure that you are correct the axle may still be off a bit.

1/4" can make a huge diference..

besides, why not be able to adjust your pinion angle?

[lowtideride]

i was out of town but...i am back.


yulp...i am making them adjustable...if i measured it a 100 times i know it would still be off..the jimmy joints look nice but i cant run somthing that is not adjustable....thanks for the pics and the info tho..

HZ why dint ya four link your 60? instead of the lift leaf springs?

[HZJ60 Guy]

Originally Posted by Mace

That is a bad idea IMHO.

How many examples do you want?
Superlift, Fabtech, Rancho, Rubicon Express and even the Black Diamond cruiser coilover kit was adjustable.

There are too many variables not to leave the adjustability.

a 40's frame is commonly tweaked. So even if you spend hours measuring and making sure that you are correct the axle may still be off a bit.

1/4" can make a huge diference..

besides, why not be able to adjust your pinion angle?

Im familiar with all those companies. HOW are they adjustable? Come on. Let me in on it. NONE of those control arms are adjustable (length wise) So let me in on it.


TB

[Mace]

I don't want to argue with you here. Lets start another thread..

[concretejungle]

I look forward to seeing some pics and the progress Al. I am considering a custom front link set-up on my 80 in the future. THis thread will help a ton.