[mookie]

you prolly won't need a anti-sway bar as long as you've got leafs in the front.....

i'd def box in that upper link mount on the axle, even if you think it's strong enough you know what happens if it rips off....no reason not to make it as strong as possible....don't forget the housing is only 3/16" thick

build some ramps for the lower link mounts, one awesome feature of a rear 4-link is being able to slide up rocks and ledges on the lower links but you won't be able to the way it is now

[notaf-ingjeep]

Originally Posted by bustanutley

I did it via spacers under motor mounts, rotated the whole assembly, but you could re drill the bellhousing. It wasn't perfectly flat between the frame rails but it was better. Here is what my skid looked like

Interesting, how much did you rotate it? I was just thinking how it would effect the oil pump and such. I would wonder how far you could push it before it was a problem.

[notaf-ingjeep]

Originally Posted by mookie

you prolly won't need a anti-sway bar as long as you've got leafs in the front.....

i'd def box in that upper link mount on the axle, even if you think it's strong enough you know what happens if it rips off....no reason not to make it as strong as possible....don't forget the housing is only 3/16" thick

build some ramps for the lower link mounts, one awesome feature of a rear 4-link is being able to slide up rocks and ledges on the lower links but you won't be able to the way it is now

Definitely, I will build some ramps on that skid plate asap. After that it will have nice ramps for sliding over rocks and such and no damage to my t.case. It does suck they hang so low but I believe it will work well after it's finished. I do want a front 4-link as I've said. So I guess it can wait on the swaybars for now. After the front 4-link I will redesign the skid plate, I may even rotate the drivetrain some as bustanutly did. When he refered to it as "clocked up" I had the wrong idea of what he meant, until I thought about it more.

I'll look into strengthening the upper link mount on the axle also. It could use more where it's welded to the axle tube, better safe than sorry. I have to add a plate on the other end of the upper link at the frame mount as well. It needs to be double sheared as it is just mounted on the sleeved bolt alone. I just hadn't decided how I would do it yet. I cut out that crossmember and then made it removable with a couple bolts on each side. It was a pain in the ass and it can make working on your t.case easier when it's not right in the way. I did want to update that with a stronger unit and possibly work the double shear plate in there. Not sure yet, but it all needs a little fine tuning. I really built it well enough to test it, but not so well it is overly hard to cut shit apart if necessary.

[bustanutley]

I'm not really worried about is oiling issues from rotating the motor a few degrees, when I drive on my side about every trip. It wasn't much. I also lifted the rear mount some.

[notaf-ingjeep]

I'd be interested in seeing what it would really take to re-drill the bell housing in order to rotate it higher. Or in other words how far the t.case could actually be rotated by doing it in such a manner. I haven't heard of anyone doing it, but I think it would be cool.

[notaf-ingjeep]

All right....... As they say" hind sight is 20/20". If I could go back in time I'd have made my lower link brackets on the frame with several holes for adjustments. I've been calculating what changes would be made if I raised the lowers higher. It will have some effect, but it would likely be worth the benefit. I'm kind of thinking I'd like to have at least 1 more set of holes in the brackets. If it works well in the new position I'd just cut off the excess hanging below w/ an angle grinder. I built them out of really thick stuff so there is plenty of strength to support the extra holes, if it didn't work well in the new position. They are welded on the frame very seriously, I'm not gonna cut them off. Here lies my query!

I'm wanting some suggestions here on my best path to drill these holes w/ this bracket attached to the frame? I'm looking to drill them as accurate as possible> I have a big Milwaukee hand drill w/ 1/2" chuck. It could do the job, accuracy would be the problem. It's really hard to drill a hole 3/4" big on a frame holding the drill horizontally like this. Especially when you consider it's 5/8" thick plates. I could do it, but would have no guarantee on the accuracy of the new holes.

I have seen a drill press unit that can attach to the frame w/ a clamp or big strong magnet. That is I've seen it online in photos, I have no idea what it'd be called or where to get one(rent perhaps)? What do you guys think will be my best plan of attack? I think it's worth trying before I just decide to live with it, and spend more time building on my skid plate to only acheive lack luster results.

Ultimately what caused me to arrive at this decision was some stuff I did w/photoshop. I'm attaching what my cruiser could look like w/ a 4-link up front to match. Also a couple of what it would look like w/ the modified skid plate to help fix this problem.

thanks guys!!!!!!

[FLYINGLOW]

Call around to tool rentals and ask for a magnetic drill press. Or get a small drill press and clamp it to the frame.

[Chop Shop]

just drill crooked uneven holes. You will be fine. From the looks of things a couple crooked holes are the least of your worries.

If the hole is crooked, the heim will allow it to center itself anyways.

If the holes are uneven (driver side to passenger side) then just adjust the lower links with the threads on the heim.

You overthinkin this.

[bustanutley]

Originally Posted by Chop Shop

You overthinkin this.

I agree, its not a space craft.

[notaf-ingjeep]

I agree, I have a tendency to be a perfectionist, good for me sometimes but not so much others. My main concern here was that by raising my lower mounting hole by 1.5" as I've planned. It will cause the heim to rotate more under articulation, and I wanted to avoid binding. Yesterday one of the guys at the machine shop suggested to me that I build a jig, like a dowling jig for wood work. I'll make it from a harder stainless steel alloy than the mild steel I'm drilling, have scrap at the shop. I will drill two 3/4"holes 1.5" apart in a block, one sleeved, one that will bolt in the mounting hole I'm relocating. That way I can keep them "even" on all sides, it can't hurt. I can add another sleeved upper link mount that much higher in the frame later if it doesn't work well.

I looked into some of the electromagnetic drill press units out there. The cheapest is over $1300, wow. I figured that some would cost that much and more, but none are cheaper. I can call around and look for a rental but I'm beginning to think it's not worth it. I am really just wanting to experiment and try to improve what I have at this point. I can build a new lower mount precise and replace it later if I need it.

As best I can figure on paper and in my head. By relocating the mount from roughly 6" to 4.5" of separation from the uppers, my pinion will rotate more throughout the travel. This may be a benefit to me as long as it's not too much. Not sure exactly what it will do to the squat characteristics, other than increased squat. May not be horrible, I'll really have to try it and see what I think by driving it. I need to take at least 1.5" out of that bracket to make it worth my time. As it is the center of the bolt is 3.375" below the frame, I'll make it 1 7/8" to bolt center. I could possibly make it a little bit lower later, I'll start out with this as I can correct it if needed.

[Chop Shop]

all that engineering into a pair of HOLES?

You should have put the same amount of thought into the upper shock mounts/location/angle.

You have much more important things to engineer if ever want to wheel this thing.

Happy holes

[notaf-ingjeep]

Originally Posted by Chop Shop

all that engineering into a pair of HOLES?

You should have put the same amount of thought into the upper shock mounts/location/angle.

You have much more important things to engineer if ever want to wheel this thing.

Happy holes

I did put that same effort into the shock mounts. I mounted them in that fashion because I wanted to keep my floor in the back. I new it wasn't ideal, I wanted to try it first, before I started hacking away. I knew that it would be changed at some point. Hell I calculated everything, building the brackets to work without binding wasn't something you could just throw together. I knew how much efficiency would be lost from the angles and what all the angles were exactly. There is a good possibility that it will be dovetailed, or tubed out at some point, I can mount them better then. It isn't a custom buggy you have to work around things, in this case the frame, it's right in the way.

I will do things my way

[bustanutley]

you no longer need that part of the frame with a linked suspension. fyi

[notaf-ingjeep]

Originally Posted by bustanutley

you no longer need that part of the frame with a linked suspension. fyi

All this work doesn't happen overnight. What would the body mount on? I want to be able to play with my ideas. It is a rather extensive project to cut and rebuild all that, I would love to do it. I'd really hate to lose my hard top as I would still like to use in the very cold winter. I'm a little torn on what I will do in the future. I would love to totally change it all, but I do not have the time now, in the immediate. I have lots of priorities in life, the cruiser comes and goes. I have been all over this stuff the last couple months. I wish I hadn't broken so many bones this year, I would have gotten more done. This by far has been one of my worst years for injuries. Both of my shoulders, my right hand twice, my big toe in the spring, and my knees are trashed. I didn't accomplish half of my goals for the year, cruiser related and other. I don't plan to change my reckless ways ever. I'm hoping that this rockcrawling stuff will fill the void when I'm too old and broken. My ideas for my cruiser are always evolving, time will tell where I end up taking it.

[John Smith]

Is it your distorted pictures fooling me or are you running no misalignment bushings on any of your joints?

[notaf-ingjeep]

Originally Posted by John Smith

Is it your distorted pictures fooling me or are you running no misalignment bushings on any of your joints?

Small ones, they will offer a few extra degrees, but don't down size the bolt. I have not had any binding issues, no problems, so far. Wasn't real familiar with them (high misalignment spacers) when I started building it a year and a half back. I made these spacers myself at the machine shop.

The main reason I built this 4-link was to learn. Otherwise I'd just left leafs on it and extended it back a couple more inches. I took risks just to see what would work for myself. I will rebuild somethings without a doubt. I may have built it with high misalignment spacers if I could go back. I haven't needed them but just the same, no reason to not have used them. I just didn't know better at the time. I am the kind of person who just has to teach myself, that is how I learn the best. Often that means learning the hard way, I'm fine with that it's just who I am.


At some point in life I do plan to build a competition worthy buggy, and use accordingly in competition. I don't know if that buggy will be some future evolution of my cruiser or something else totally original. It seems like these days what it takes to win is a buggy that is built in a way that this cruiser couldn't be. The point here is this cruiser is the launching pad for the future. How far I take this cruiser is one thing, I could at some point start fresh. All the money and the time spent on learning was an investment to me.

['74 UA FJ]

You gotta do something about those rock hangers.

[Chop Shop]

Originally Posted by '74 UA FJ

You gotta do something about those rock hangers.

Hes gonna keepem for sure now.

[Gumby]

there are certainly some engineering things I might do differently. I could get a list going, but I'm not any master engineer myself.

I am not a big fan of gratuitous profanity.

You might very well not want your young child around my campfire late at night, but I will do my best to not offend needlessly. That sticker is stupid.

[Lka1988]

Hey, why haven't I seen you around? Cool rig, what part of PG are you in?

[Eskimo]

Originally Posted by mookie

you prolly won't need a anti-sway bar as long as you've got leafs in the front.....

From what I've seen, most of the time the guys who need a sway bar most are those with a mix of leaves and links... otherwise, the back does all the work... what's your take?

Rich "he who is swaybarless" Q.

[notaf-ingjeep]

Originally Posted by Lka1988

Hey, why haven't I seen you around? Cool rig, what part of PG are you in?

I've had my cruiser for 8 years, since high school. I could have known some of your relatives, based on your last name, from the old baseball days. I'm from the old part of town. R.I.P pgc

It doesn't see the street much anymore. I have too much to finish this year. So it will be spring before she's out for fun.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I am sorry if you all aren't impressed, truthfully I don't care. It isn't perfect, and as I have been saying, a lot is only done enough to test it . And there isn't any problems from and engineering stand point that I haven't considered my self first you could point out, compromise was needed. I expected every criticism thrown my way. The lower mounts or the rock hangers might get changed, as is w/ramps they will be great, I promise . I have built a jig so I can drill some decent holes in it w/ good accuracy. I refuse to just slap some poorly drilled holes in it, I don't do that sort of fabrication. The coilovers are a problem to most as well. Personally, my goal here was to make them fit. I wanted to try it for myself first, as I feel it will work well, although not ideal. To repeat myself again, I will change it later if it needs it or I just want to improve it. I am not sure of what I may do to the rear of the frame in the future. If you can't respect it then, you've lost sight of what I was trying to do. As far as my sticker goes it stays! I understand how it will effect some people, if it offends I'm willing to apologize. If that isn't good enough well, I'm not afraid of much, and this is America!

I will post some updates as soon as they are done. I have been occupied with bigger priorities so I'll get them done asap

[alaska60]

Originally Posted by hedonist

its always good to offend!
have a sticker on my that says:

"politics are confusing.. lets just vote how the bishop tells us to"

This is a great one!!!!!!!

[notaf-ingjeep]

Originally Posted by Eskimo

From what I've seen, most of the time the guys who need a sway bar most are those with a mix of leaves and links... otherwise, the back does all the work... what's your take?

Rich "he who is swaybarless" Q.

I'm not sure if a mix of suspensions as mentioned by eskimo would need sway bars most, I might not be surprised. I haven't done any good testing yet with hard turns and speed, just some slow crawling and flexing the suspension. But I still need to test a bunch, I basically assumed it was the soft really long travel suspension that would be the cause for needing the antirock bars. I see mookie's point that the shorter travel suspension with the leafs up front would help in that respect. Remember leafs on their own don't need sway bars.

I do need to know if Placing the sway bars in rear of the axle or in front of the axle closet to the drive train, which would be the best for sway control? Comments any one?

I can say that...........................
When I pick the whole rear end up, tires off the ground. Then push on the tire, forcing the axle side to side in order to test if my triangulation was enough to hold it centered. It doesn't move the rear axle in that respect, but the front does slop side to side quite a bit. Like I said I felt my rear suspension needed the sway bars mainly because of soft springs and monster travel. I've driven on that front suspension for years so there's nothing new there. I haven't tested it the other way around, lifting the front up so tires are off the ground and seeing how the rear responds to the same test. I'm curious to try that to see what happens, better or worse front vs back with side to side motion. I say that the rear moves less side to side, as it should, but has more travel. It might be that the weight of the truck swinging is what is needed because of the forces. THis may be the way to properly test what the suspension that is planted on the ground with have for side to side motion. I'll try it for fun and find out when I can.

[uglyoinker]

2008 gixxer 600?

[Eskimo]

Originally Posted by notaf-ingjeep

I do need to know if Placing the sway bars in rear of the axle or in front of the axle closet to the drive train, which would be the best for sway control? Comments any one?

Doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by notaf-ingjeep

When I pick the whole rear end up, tires off the ground. Then push on the tire, forcing the axle side to side in order to test if my triangulation was enough to hold it centered.

If that was your "test", you're in for a shock when you get it out on the trail...

I think people's problem with your rig is that in one post you'll acknowledge something like "Yes, I realize now that as the suspension compresses, I'll lose something like 80% of my dampening", and then in the next post, say something like "Remember leafs on their own don't need sway bars." like you know what you're talking about..

[mookie]

just my experience....my friends rig is linked front and rear and he had terrible body roll until he got a anti-sway bar, my rig is linked in the back and leafed in the front and i haven't had any problems....it no doubt has a lot to do with with the center of gravity and how the suspension is set up.....it seems like folks with air shocks have the worst problem with the body flopping over on side hills etc......hell just take it out and drive it on the trail a while then you'll know if you need one or not and whether your shocks are gonna work right or not. i think you'd be a lot happier if you cut holes in the floor and stuck them up on the same vertical plane as your axle though

[notaf-ingjeep]

Originally Posted by uglyoinker

2008 gixxer 600?

it is an 07'

[notaf-ingjeep]

Originally Posted by Eskimo

Doesn't matter.



If that was your "test", you're in for a shock when you get it out on the trail...

I think people's problem with your rig is that in one post you'll acknowledge something like "Yes, I realize now that as the suspension compresses, I'll lose something like 80% of my dampening", and then in the next post, say something like "Remember leafs on their own don't need sway bars." like you know what you're talking about..

I have done my best to defend myself, sorry if my communication over the net isn't the best.

[uglyoinker]

ride much? I hope you don't hang out at a certain chevron with a bunch of guys calling themselves the darkside riders? I have a 06 gixxer 1000. I try to avoid posertopia state street and hang out in the canyons and at miller...